Know Your 'Rafale'

[smestarz]

I might say you are coming very close, just will need refining..

Sure !

The Rafale was the worst plane of the field test.
So Dassault paid a lot of bribes to be sure to be among the L1 - L2.
After that DA gave a totally incredible low price to be sure to be L1.
And when declared L1, they made all their best to sabotage the bargaining (it's usual ! Dassault at those time already had a hand full of customers for his dirty fighter)
And to finisch, they offered a nice villa in the south coast of France to Modi to be sure he inked a deal at a very and incredible high price for 36 planes directly delivered from France (Dassault deeply fucked the MII !!!).

Is it a nice shortcut of your own story of the MMRCA saga ?

 

[BON PLAN]

I might say you are coming very close, just will need refining..

and it's why india will take one or two more batch.

 

[Sancho]

Not exactly, the loss of Malaysia is an issue, because there was a hope that they buy what IAF buys and maintain or even produce the fighters on an Indian production line. Now that chance is gone, while Indonesia is a whole different issue again. They already have Flankers and F16s, are interested in Su 35, or F16 upgrades and possibly add some more V's/B70's to them. Not to mention that their long term plan is, to partner with S. Korea for the KFX fighter. The last thing they need now, is another type of fighter at high costs.

Realistically, there are hardly any tenders at the moment , where Rafale would be an obvious or prefered choice.
Belgium is gone, Finland possibly political (towards US or Sweden), Poland political and financial (they are begging for US protection and EU fundings), Switzerland (now includes US fighters, which adds political, financial and technical advantages in their court). UAE, are more than happy with the M2K-9 and even happier with their B60, while their goal is F35.

Then you have several eastern European countries, that can't afford either new or expensive fighters like Rafale.

So the only hope remains additional orders from Egypt (if the Saudis fund them again), Qatar and India.

It's sad, that such a beautiful and indeed capable fighter does not get the deserved orders, but that's Dassault fault for sure!

@Tactical Frog

https://www.airrecognition.com/inde...ia-finally-clinch-deal-for-11-su-35-jets.html

Next surely F16 upgrade.

 

[Sancho]

Translated

Rafale in Egypt: the United States blocks
By Michel CABIROL | 16/02/2018,

Negotiations for the sale of additional Rafale between France and Egypt are hampered by the United States. Washington refuses to export an American component aboard the Scalp cruise missile that Cairo wants to acquire.

It stuck seriously in negotiations between Paris and Cairo for the sale of additional Rafale (12 fighter jets) to the Egyptian Air Force, according to concordant sources. And this is not a funding issue as in the past. According to these sources, France is currently unable to deliver scalp cruise missiles manufactured by MBDA to Egyptians because of an American component. Contacted by La Tribune , Dassault Aviation and MBDA declined to comment.

Paris had given the green light to export the Scalp missile after its passage before the inter-ministerial commission for the study of exports of war materials (CIEEMG), but the United States blocked the sale. Washington follows the International Traffic in Arms Regulations ( ITAR ) . Good war for the Americans. But this situation greatly irritates both the Egyptians, who absolutely want Scalp missiles, and Dassault Aviation, who does not want to miss a new Rafale sale.

Towards a new Franco-American arrangement?
If the supply of Rafale is not in danger, one explains to the Tribune , this operation is clearly slowed down in spite of the frequent comings and goings between Paris and Cairo of the Egyptian and French negotiators these last weeks. And all the pressure is on MBDA, which is in the sight of the Egyptian authorities, very up against the missile. So much so that Cairo wants the Scalp ... for free. What MBDA refuses. However, by the end of 2017, everything seemed to be in place for a signing between Cairo and Dassault Aviation at the beginning of this year at the time of a visit by Emmanuel Macron. It missed.

Either MBDA changes this component, or France and the United States find an arrangement at very high level. At the invitation of Donald Trump, Emmanuel Macron will also visit the United States on 23 and 24 April. It should be remembered that François Hollande's visit to the United States in February 2014 had already settled the sale of two spy satellites in the United Arab Emirates (UAE). The United States then refused to export some of the "made in USA" components needed to manufacture these two satellites.

https://www.latribune.fr/entreprise...pte-les-etats-unis-bloquent-768856.html?amp=1

 

[Mikesingh]

There's a lot of controversy regarding the costing of the Rafale deal. The UPA is poking the NDA in the eye saying that it's all about corruption!

Ok, so let's check it out. Here's a video that's bang on. However the exact cost of the latest weapon systems and advanced avionics suits fitted into these latest avatars of the older Rafale that were tested earlier have not been disclosed due to security reasons and rightly so. The latest versions have been fitted with the Thales RBE2/3 / AESA, Front Sector Optronics (FSO), upgraded SPECTRA internal Electronic Warfare (EW) system, net-centric capability hinging on its new open architecture data fusion software, Talios targeting and laser designator pods and much more (not being divulged due to the secrecy clause signed with France).

The 126 Rafales contracted for by the UPA were only bare-bone aircraft without the weapon systems, maintenance, life-cycle costs, spares etc. The 36 Rafales now contracted for are the fully loaded versions with the latest gizmos and include maintenance, life-cycle costs, spares, training, infrastructure, inflation and so on.


RaGa who's ratcheting up the issue of corruption in this deal by the NDA needs to do some homework which needless to say he doesn't bother to do but spews gas at the drop of a hat and shooting himself in the foot more often than not. Doesn't he ever get embarrassed by his shenanigans? He seems to have a skin so thick that'll put a frikkin crocodile to shame!

 

[darshan978]

There's a lot of controversy regarding the costing of the Rafale deal. The UPA is poking the NDA in the eye saying that it's all about corruption!

Ok, so let's check it out. Here's a video that's bang on. However the exact cost of the latest weapon systems and advanced avionics suits fitted into these latest avatars of the older Rafale that were tested earlier have not been disclosed due to security reasons and rightly so. The latest versions have been fitted with the Thales RBE2/3 / AESA, Front Sector Optronics (FSO), upgraded SPECTRA internal Electronic Warfare (EW) system, net-centric capability hinging on its new open architecture data fusion software, Talios targeting and laser designator pods and much more (not being divulged due to the secrecy clause signed with France).

The 126 Rafales contracted for by the UPA were only bare-bone aircraft without the weapon systems, maintenance, life-cycle costs, spares etc. The 36 Rafales now contracted for are the fully loaded versions with the latest gizmos and include maintenance, life-cycle costs, spares, training, infrastructure, inflation and so on.


RaGa who's ratcheting up the issue of corruption in this deal by the NDA needs to do some homework which needless to say he doesn't bother to do but spews gas at the drop of a hat and shooting himself in the foot more often than not. Doesn't he ever get embarrassed by his shenanigans? He seems to have a skin so thick that'll put a frikkin crocodile to shame!

plz remove this videos link i hate such defence fanboys who know noyhing about d of defense and make utube videos by reading online news

 

[Sancho]

Belgium wants to buy Rafale fighters for naval capability, says French lawmaker

Belgium has shown interest in the Rafale fighter jet for maritime use, said Jean-Jacques Bridey, chairman of the French Defence Committee of the lower house National Assembly.

“The Belgians are interested in the Rafale,” he told The Defense Journalists Association. “Why? If they buy the Rafale, it will be the naval Rafale.”...

https://www.defensenews.com/naval/2...rs-for-naval-capability-says-french-lawmaker/

Joke of the day?

 

[Armand2REP]

https://www.defensenews.com/naval/2...rs-for-naval-capability-says-french-lawmaker/

Joke of the day?

I don't see why it has to be a joke. The cost difference is marginal and it allows Belgium to operate from US carriers. It is a distinct advantage over an F-35A. The F-35C is far more expensive.

 

[Sancho]

I don't see why it has to be a joke.

Because there was never any official interest about a "naval" fighter from Belgium.

 

[Armand2REP]

Because there was never any official interest about a "naval" fighter from Belgium.

If the chairman of the Defence Committee says it then you can rest assured it is not a joke. He is in contact with his Belgian counterparts and is relaying what they want and getting the Rafale M gives it a distinct advantage when they have to explain the choice to the voters. The idea of Belgian fighters flying off nuclear carriers is a very powerful image.

 

[Sancho]

If the chairman of the Defence Committee says it then you can rest assured it is not a joke.

Lol, so why even bother to listen what the Belgian politicians or the RFP says, when the chairman of the French Defence Committee know it better.

 

[Armand2REP]

Lol, so why even bother to listen what the Belgian politicians or the RFP says, when the chairman of the French Defence Committee know it better.

Feel free to listen to what the chairman of the Belgian Finance Committee and two times Defence Minister said.

Outre une vision étroite de la Défense, M. Vandeput a du mal à cacher une démarche orientée et nourrie de petits calculs communautaires. Cette fin d'année en a donné un exemple remarquable. En effet, devant la proposition française d'offrir à la Belgique 20 milliards d'euros de compensation au cas où les Rafale viendraient remplacer nos F-16, le ministre N-VA s'est payé le luxe de la juger "trop belle pour être vraie". Quelle désinvolture ! Quel ton péremptoire ! Quel manque d'élégance et de respect à l'égard de nos partenaires français !

http://www.levif.be/actualite/belgi...atoire-de-la-n-va/article-opinion-782143.html

Enfin, il est utile de souligner que la transaction commerciale - teintée de chantage aux 2 % - offerte par le gouvernement américain n'a rien à voir avec le partenariat stratégique global proposé par la France. Lequel intègre des aspects opérationnels, de formation et de soutien dans un contexte de coopération industrielle et technique.

Ce partenariat, au contraire de la première option, nous conduit sur la voie d'une véritable Europe de la Défense, seule capable de renforcer notre autonomie stratégique et de limiter notre dépendance face aux États-Unis, dont les choix politiques de ces derniers mois nourrissent plus que jamais nos préoccupations.

http://www.levif.be/actualite/belgi...nt-pipes-d-avance/article-opinion-794039.html

Il n’en reste pas moins que le partenariat ambitieux et constructif proposé par la France constitue, à plus d’un titre, une exceptionnelle opportunité pour nos entreprises. Elle ne manquera pas d’offrir de nouvelles perspectives d’emploi dans nos Régions. Mieux, si l’accord devait se concrétiser, il viendrait renforcer l’autonomie stratégique de l’Europe en diminuant, au sein de l’OTAN, notre dépendance à l’égard des États-Unis. Lesquels souhaitent, de très longue date, un meilleur partage des charges financières et des risques opérationnels de part et d’autre de l’Atlantique.

http://plus.lesoir.be/113338/articl...nt-des-f-16-une-opportunite-europeenne-saisir

 

[Sancho]

Sieh dir den Tweet von @AirRecognition an:

 

[Sancho]

Feel free to listen to what the chairman of the Belgian Finance Committee and two times Defence Minister said.

Outre une vision étroite de la Défense, M. Vandeput a du mal à cacher une démarche orientée et nourrie de petits calculs communautaires. Cette fin d'année en a donné un exemple remarquable. En effet, devant la proposition française d'offrir à la Belgique 20 milliards d'euros de compensation au cas où les Rafale viendraient remplacer nos F-16, le ministre N-VA s'est payé le luxe de la juger "trop belle pour être vraie". Quelle désinvolture ! Quel ton péremptoire ! Quel manque d'élégance et de respect à l'égard de nos partenaires français !

=>

Translated

In addition to a narrow vision of Defense, Vandeput has trouble hiding a guided approach and fed small community calculations. This end of the year has given a remarkable example. Indeed, before the French proposal to offer Belgium 20 billion euros of compensation in case the Rafale would replace our F-16, Minister N-VA has the luxury of judging " too beautiful for to be true ". What casualness! What a peremptory tone! What a lack of elegance and respect for our French partners!

Either Google is not giving the proper translation, or there is nothing that would even remotely hint on a "naval" requirement. But I get the desperate approach to make up a requirement, since the fact is, Belgium is only considering the 2 offers that were officially made and all that Dassault/French officials can hope for, is a complete re-tender. But as your own source says:

Needless to say, for the N-VA the games are made. The American F-35 was chosen from the outset. It does not seem even more necessary to put the forms in it.

 

[Armand2REP]

But as your own source says:

Needless to say, for the N-VA the games are made. The American F-35 was chosen from the outset. It does not seem even more necessary to put the forms in it.

He is saying the Flemish Party had made their choice long before and the tender was a scam. That is why both Saab and Boeing withdrew because they knew it to be true. To run a tender with a clear bias for one is illegal under the compete clause. This is what draws the process into question and will lead it to be scrapped for a government to government deal.

 

[asianobserve]

When air forces are offered the F-35, Rafale and othe so called 4.5th gen always loose.

 

[Sancho]

He is saying the Flemish Party had made their choice long before and the tender was a scam. That is why both Saab and Boeing withdrew because they knew it to be true. To run a tender with a clear bias for one is illegal under the compete clause. This is what draws the process into question and will lead it to be scrapped for a government to government deal.

So as expected, only desperate fantasies.

 

[Armand2REP]

So as expected, only desperate fantasies.

Tenders get scrapped all the time, just like India scrapped the SE competition so more Rafale can be ordered.

 

[Sancho]

Sieh dir den Tweet von @D__Mitch an:

 

[asianobserve]

Tenders get scrapped all the time, just like India scrapped the SE competition so more Rafale can be ordered.

It'll be interesting to see if Modi government will order more Rafale given the political heat it is getting from its decision to buy 36 Rafales.