Know Your 'Rafale'

[Armand2REP]

It'll be interesting to see if Modi government will order more Rafale given the political heat it is getting from its decision to buy 36 Rafales.

Nobody cares about that, it is all about an actual PNB scam.

 

[asianobserve]

Nobody cares about that, it is all about an actual PNB scam.

It looks like he is starting to feel the heat. You can see it from the withdrawal of the SEF tender. It looks like the opposition has weaponized Rafale...

 

[Sancho]

It looks like he is starting to feel the heat. You can see it from the withdrawal of the SEF tender. It looks like the opposition has weaponized Rafale...

Not really, because if the tender includes twin engine fighters again, it might include Rafale too, so this only opens way to more criticism and not less.
It's just a stalling tactic, to delay the decision on fighters beyond the elections.

 

[smestarz]

Maybe the Belgians said thought he is the best person to play joke on.
Isnt it obvious?

When a country buys say Maritime planes like you said and a plane like Rafale, it would do so for its own security, It would be very funny for a country to buy such a plane (remember Rafale is a CATOBAR plane) and hence it will need a CATOBAR CARRIER,. Thus in a way, when Belgium buys French Rafale so that it can fly from French carrier, why the hell to buy it? Just pay the French as mercernaries so that they can take the targets down for the Belgians...
You really see how stupid it sounds?

There can be one way, if the Belgians are paying for the planes and the French are using them paying the Belgians for loaning of the planes (Lend and lease) so this way the Belgians buy the planes and lease it back to french and the Belgians make some moeny in the process and some coutries do that. The Americans had leased F-16 to Pakistan. The Russian have leased us their nuclear sub,

In the context you say the Belgians plan to buy F-35, I might say thats a good plan, F-35B is a CTOVL plane which is also VTOL as that might more sense in terms of flexibility. During the falkland wars, the British had used their Harriers from a "converted carrier"

If that way, then if the Belgians want to go into action now, they cannot, because CdG is in for repairs. Do you really think that a country will depend on another country for its defence specially a country like Belgium?

As of now, I am really interested to know what the Chairman of French defence committee smoking

If the chairman of the Defence Committee says it then you can rest assured it is not a joke. He is in contact with his Belgian counterparts and is relaying what they want and getting the Rafale M gives it a distinct advantage when they have to explain the choice to the voters. The idea of Belgian fighters flying off nuclear carriers is a very powerful image.

 

[smestarz]

You ordered the same stuff as the Chairman of your defence committee?

Tenders get scrapped all the time, just like India scrapped the SE competition so more Rafale can be ordered.

 

[smestarz]

More or less what I had said.

https://www.airrecognition.com/inde...ia-finally-clinch-deal-for-11-su-35-jets.html

Indonesia is not a rich country, It might be looking at all the western fighters, But its more likely to go for maybe Su-30 or Su-35 or MiG-35 even. Indonesia being an island nation, Su-30 MKI class becomes what it might require, Surely Eurofighter and Rafale come within its requirement field, but It might go with Gripen. Thailand is using Gripen.
Also Indonesia is along with Korea for its 5th Gen plane if you remember. so maybe the option could be 2nd hand Mirage 2000 as stop gap solution

 

[Armand2REP]

When a country buys say Maritime planes like you said and a plane like Rafale, it would do so for its own security, It would be very funny for a country to buy such a plane (remember Rafale is a CATOBAR plane) and hence it will need a CATOBAR CARRIER,. Thus in a way, when Belgium buys French Rafale so that it can fly from French carrier, why the hell to buy it? Just pay the French as mercernaries so that they can take the targets down for the Belgians...
You really see how stupid it sounds?

Belgium does not buy things only for it's own security. It is a founding member of the EU and the seat of it's government. Of which it is a member of NATO, the largest alliance on Earth. When the alliance calls on members to submit forces, many of them are of specialised capability. Slovakia for example does not have much expeditionary force, but it specialises in IED and NBC decon, a valuable asset to the alliance. For Belgium to have the ability tp operate from not just the CdG but every US nuclear carrier places a much higher deployability to its forces. Belgium also has the mission of deploying US nuclear weapons so it's replacement must be nuclear ready and an at-sea deterrent is far more survivable.
You see how in this context is doesn't sound so stupid?

 

[BON PLAN]

There is hardly any truth to the fake news you present here. Most including yourself have no capacity to understand military doctrine. Go back to your little French bubble.

And of course, You, have all the knowledge to understand that. Of course !

it's just unfortunate that it does not show in your silly remarks....

 

[BON PLAN]

It'll be interesting to see if Modi government will order more Rafale given the political heat it is getting from its decision to buy 36 Rafales.

A second batch of 36 is cleared.
Because you never invest 1.67 billion to adapt 2 air bases just for 2 squad.
At least 2 others squad will come.

India will never make the same mistake than with the too small fleet of Mirage 2000.

 

[BON PLAN]

When air forces are offered the F-35, Rafale and othe so called 4.5th gen always loose.

when the F35 customers will really see the shit they purchased, some things will change...

 

[asianobserve]

when the F35 customers will really see the shit they purchased, some things will change...

Like how Japan is adding 25 more F'35As, and both it (Japan) and SoKor are ordering additional F-35Bs on top of their original F-35As orders?

 

[BON PLAN]

Like how Japan is adding 25 more F'35As, and both it (Japan) and SoKor are ordering additional F-35Bs on top of their original F-35As orders?

F35B is the only jet available for STOVL in the world.... and Japan has officially no carrier, only LHD...
We will see what happend with F35A...

 

[BON PLAN]

Like how Japan is adding 25 more F'35As, and both it (Japan) and SoKor are ordering additional F-35Bs on top of their original F-35As orders?

A first bad news for Japan....

F-35A price soars for Japan...



via Defense Aerospace.
The estimated per-plane cost to Japan of acquiring a single US F-35A stealth fighter soared by about 53 percent to US$137.6 million (14.7 billion yen) in FY 2017 from an estimated US$90 million (9.6 billion yen) in FY 2012, according to a report by the Asahi Shimbun. Japan Defense Ministry officials attributed the catapulting price on the currency impact of a weaker yen. But some defense analysts blamed the surging costs on Japan’s procurement of the aircraft from the US government’s Foreign Military Sales (FMS) program. Asahi noted FMS sales are considered part of the defense aid that the US provides to its allies. Because of this, buyers like Japan tend to pay the asking price, versus what might have been paid by purchasing the plane directly from Lockheed Martin, its manufacturer. “As the F-35A is aircraft loaded with sensitive features, it is difficult to verify whether the cost is reasonable,” a senior Defense Ministry official was quoted as saying. “It is true that we tend to accept the US asking price.” (end of excerpt)
No rant. I just wish someone somewhere could give me a no bullshit price for this jet.
You can do all the Google searches in the world and you're just gonna be caught in a hall of mirrors.
Some say its dropping, others say its rising...the public is just left confused.
Well done Program Office.
With your accounting practices no one has any real idea how much this plane costs.

 

[uoftotaku]

Short answer...nobody really knows

Also don't forget that ALL of the jets currently being made AND all of the ones delivered till at least 2022 will NOT be fully combat capable without need even more money thrown at them for various upgrades

 

[smestarz]

Its not about making mistake, in Indian situation the Su-30MKI becomes more capable than Rafale

A second batch of 36 is cleared.
Because you never invest 1.67 billion to adapt 2 air bases just for 2 squad.
At least 2 others squad will come.

India will never make the same mistake than with the too small fleet of Mirage 2000.

 

[smestarz]

F-35B can also be used as VTOL

F35B is the only jet available for STOVL in the world.... and Japan has officially no carrier, only LHD...
We will see what happend with F35A...

 

[BON PLAN]

Its not about making mistake, in Indian situation the Su-30MKI becomes more capable than Rafale

bullshit.
Rafale is not induce in India, so your claim is just irrelevant.

 

[BON PLAN]

F-35B can also be used as VTOL

with what kind of load? 2 x AIM9X ?
quite useless.

 

[smestarz]

Very relevant, The reason is that it cannot be armed as much as Rafale of F/A-18
But it sure can be used from even helicopter carrier which are cheaper to buy and use.
So where Rafale can be purchased by only few countries that have CATOBAR carrier, F-35B can be carried by ships of Spain, Thailand, Italian cavour.. That helps their flexibility.
Thus if say Italy wants a naval option, With Rafale and F-18 they will need to invest in CATOBAR carrier thus the cost of purchase of a plane becomes planes + carrier, but for F-35. they can use their existing Cavour and thats why its relevant

with what kind of load? 2 x AIM9X ?
quite useless.

 

[Armand2REP]

F-35B can also be used as VTOL

It already has enough payload restrictions without a catapult, to do a straight vertical takeoff would restrict its payload to about... nothing.