Know Your 'Rafale'

[BON PLAN]

European Defense is farce, you can't be taken seriously while you rely on over 150 US nukes, thousands of US troops and a wide set of platfroms deployed in the heartland. As for being US proteges, well the French are just as much puppets to Washington as any other EU nation.

Europe :
NATO (or US) B61.
300 french warheads.
200 GB warheads.

the 2 lates very up to date (B61 are not)

Total : 600+ far far enough to be sure no one will take the risk of.

 

[BON PLAN]

Perhaps your grandma is indeed your grandpa with a pair of testicles that is none of my concern. Can't argue with somone who doesn't know the effect of supersonic speed on rcs, educate yourself before continuing this chat. As for the F-35, it can reach and maintain mach 1.2+ in level flight with a full internal load.

My dear Immanuel, educate me please !!!

I'm waiting your sources

 

[Armand2REP]

As for being US proteges, well the French are just as much puppets to Washington as any other EU nation.

Is that why The US Congress changed French Fries to Freedom Fries over our refusal to invade Iraq? Or is that why we had to Liberate Mali by ourselves?

 

[Sancho]

According point e&d of Raksha Mantri’s reply, any additional Rafale order will imply another IGA . If I get it right.

It was stated last year, that any further order would not be an off the shelf procurement, but that the aim is a licence production in India. That however is nit possible without the naval order and with the latest defence budget, it's more than unlikely now. The financial situation is too constrained as it seems and elections coming.

 

[Sancho]

Sieh dir den Tweet von @AiretCosmos an:

 

[Sancho]

Sieh dir den Tweet von @thewarzonewire an:

The French Army is in the process of defining the armament and other characteristics of its future Airbus H160M helicopters, which will replace its aging Aérospatiale SA342 Gazelles in the armed scout role. At the same time, particularly given the demands of France’s broad counter-terrorism campaign in Northwest Africa, the service is looking at light attack aircraft to supplement scout and gunship helicopters in certain circumstances and as cost-effective alternative to expensive multi-role combat aircraft...

...This would also reduce the need to rely on the much more expensive to operate Mirage 2000s and Rafale fighter jets for longer range missions and to provide rapid support in the event of an ambush or other crisis...

 

[Sancho]

Malaysia Eyes Used Aircraft

Lockheed Martin P-3C Orions from Japan for maritime patrol, and fighters including secondhand BoeingF/A-18 Hornets are among the candidates as the Malaysian government seeks to bolster its defense capabilities without breaking the national bank. Defense Minister Hishammuddin Hussein announced approval for buying new maritime patrollers on Oct. 29, but no money has been earmarked for doing so...

...The situation is even more complicated for fighters. Prior to shifting its priorities for lower costs, Malaysia considered the Eurofighter Typhoon, Dassault Rafale, Saab Gripen C/D and F/A-18E/F Super Hornet for the Royal Malaysian Air Force. Current possibilities include secondhand F/A-18 Hornets from Australia or Kuwait...

http://aviationweek.com/singapore-airshow-2018/malaysia-eyes-used-aircraft

With that market closed down now for good, the export options for Rafale are getting smaller and smaller.

The current trend to cost-effective light attack, light to medium class single, or 2nd hand twin engine fighters, is a big problem, since Rafale is too costly to compete with most of them, while France has no 2nd hand fighters to divert, like Sweden or the EF partners.

The few tenders, that are looking for new medium class fighters, are not only covered by the other 2 Eurocanards too, but also the F35, which puts Rafale in all kinds of disadvantages too.

 

[undeadmyrmidon]

http://aviationweek.com/singapore-airshow-2018/malaysia-eyes-used-aircraft

With that market closed down now for good, the export options for Rafale are getting smaller and smaller.

The current trend to cost-effective light attack, light to medium class single, or 2nd hand twin engine fighters, is a big problem, since Rafale is too costly to compete with most of them, while France has no 2nd hand fighters to divert, like Sweden or the EF partners.

The few tenders, that are looking for new medium class fighters, are not only covered by the other 2 Eurocanards too, but also the F35, which puts Rafale in all kinds of disadvantages too.

So, a market for LCA Tejas s opening? How is this bad.....?

 

[undeadmyrmidon]

Sieh dir den Tweet von @thewarzonewire an:

Fuck this new craze over modern day P 51s. Looks like socialism doesn't leave much for budget! Stupid argument against Rafale. A P 51 can NEVER replace Rafale when fighting a high tech enemy.

This trend is also seen in USAF interest in A 29 Super Tucano. So I won't lose sleep over this.

 

[Sancho]

Fuck this new craze over modern day P 51s. Looks like socialism doesn't leave much for budget! Stupid argument against Rafale. A P 51 can NEVER replace Rafale when fighting a high tech enemy.

This trend is also seen in USAF interest in A 29 Super Tucano. So I won't lose sleep over this.

It's not about replacing a fighter but about saving operational costs. NATO countries that fight terrorists like Taliban or IS, doesn't require A2A capability, flight performance or even stealth. Operating fighters which costs several 1000s of dollar per hour, then is a waste of money. Using armed helicopters or prop engined fixed wing aircrafts and drones, is far more cost effective, in these specific war situations, but whenever a real enemy needs to be fought, proper fighters are the key again. That's why India doesn't have the luxury and used light attack aircrafts instead of capable fighters.
For export potential however, that opens a new low level, below light class fighters, just as it makes it even more difficult to sell advanced once.

 

[Armand2REP]

Sieh dir den Tweet von @thewarzonewire an:

The only thing we are getting are: 3 extra MRTT, 50 extra Jaguar, over 100 extra Griffon, an extra AOR for the MN,a few more OPVs and a squadron of maritime patrollers over the last White Paper. Basically uncutting what was cut too far. The rest is just staying on track. The budget for H160M cannot be broken with the wishes of ALAT fantasy list. Gazelle has got to go and all platforms to get precision rockets.

 

[Sancho]

Sieh dir den Tweet von @rajatpTOI an:
If I'm not wrong, 670 crore INR => 104 million USD flyaway.

 

[asianobserve]

Sieh dir den Tweet von @rajatpTOI an:
If I'm not wrong, 670 crore INR => 104 million USD flyaway.

A Lot 10 pre-production flyaway price for an F-35A is only US$94.6M.

An the production price target for an F-35A will US $85M.

 

[BON PLAN]

So, a market for LCA Tejas s opening? How is this bad.....?

or JF17 !!! already on duty.

 

[BON PLAN]

http://aviationweek.com/singapore-airshow-2018/malaysia-eyes-used-aircraft

With that market closed down now for good, the export options for Rafale are getting smaller and smaller.

The current trend to cost-effective light attack, light to medium class single, or 2nd hand twin engine fighters, is a big problem, since Rafale is too costly to compete with most of them, while France has no 2nd hand fighters to divert, like Sweden or the EF partners.

The few tenders, that are looking for new medium class fighters, are not only covered by the other 2 Eurocanards too, but also the F35, which puts Rafale in all kinds of disadvantages too.

2nd hand F18 is the better option, because already in the Malaysian force.
But the price will not be so low, because Canada is also interested, and why not Switzerland ?

It's a fill gap solution. The need for a new fighter remain. And Rafale was the prefered option.

 

[Vishwarupa]

https://amp.france24.com/en/20150216-france-egypt-sign-deal-sale-rafale-fighter-jets

Egypt, France to conclude €5.2 billion deal for Rafale jets

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-f...-in-next-few-days-radio-idUKKBN0NL0RE20150430

France and Qatar seal $7 billion Rafale fighter jet deal

 

[BON PLAN]

It's not about replacing a fighter but about saving operational costs. NATO countries that fight terrorists like Taliban or IS, doesn't require A2A capability, flight performance or even stealth. Operating fighters which costs several 1000s of dollar per hour, then is a waste of money. Using armed helicopters or prop engined fixed wing aircrafts and drones, is far more cost effective, in these specific war situations, but whenever a real enemy needs to be fought, proper fighters are the key again. That's why India doesn't have the luxury and used light attack aircrafts instead of capable fighters.
For export potential however, that opens a new low level, below light class fighters, just as it makes it even more difficult to sell advanced once.

You're right.
two kinds of ennemy are to be faced now (seen from a west country) : high end and/or established states (ex : China, Russia, Iran...) which need up to date weapons, and low end (ISIS...) for which a SSN or a F22 or a Leopard 2 is too rich.
West coutry will need low end and high end weapons.

 

[BON PLAN]

A Lot 10 pre-production flyaway price for an F-35A is only US$94.6M.

An the production price target for an F-35A will US $85M.

with or without engine?
The REAL accounting of the F35 program is very dark (another black program). we sometime see a special budget to repair some cracks, another for upgrading some planes, another to avoid pilot to have the nexk broken in case of, another to avoid the plane to roll when using the canon....

 

[BON PLAN]

http://aviationweek.com/singapore-airshow-2018/malaysia-eyes-used-aircraft

With that market closed down now for good, the export options for Rafale are getting smaller and smaller.

The current trend to cost-effective light attack, light to medium class single, or 2nd hand twin engine fighters, is a big problem, since Rafale is too costly to compete with most of them, while France has no 2nd hand fighters to divert, like Sweden or the EF partners.

The few tenders, that are looking for new medium class fighters, are not only covered by the other 2 Eurocanards too, but also the F35, which puts Rafale in all kinds of disadvantages too.

There are some others tender my dear Sancho....

http://aviationweek.com/singapore-a...m=email&elq2=d9bab8606aea4fd3b945c88eb420ddb2

Dont' worry for Rafale.
your compassion is a pleasure but totaly useless.

 

[asianobserve]

with or without engine?
The REAL accounting of the F35 program is very dark (another black program). we sometime see a special budget to repair some cracks, another for upgrading some planes, another to avoid pilot to have the nexk broken in case of, another to avoid the plane to roll when using the canon....

That price is already complete with engine.

If the operational costing of F-35s is still unclear it's because the plane is still in its infancy. The maintenance procedures, spares management, operational requirements are still being developed by the operators. The current spares problem will eventually be sorted out and the cost brought down.

Remember, there will be 3,000 plus units that will be in operation. The economy of scale will apply here the most unlike other fighters that are inducted in low hundreds.