Know Your 'Rafale'

[asianobserve]

The Syrian propaganda that it allegedly hit an Israeli F-35 is fishy from the start. The Syrians must be hallucinating to claim such a thing when they cannot even shoot down non-stealthy Israeli F-16s and F-15s that routinely violate Syrian air space.

That one is really comic.

 

[Flame Thrower]

The Syrian propaganda that it allegedly hit an Israeli F-35 is fishy from the start. The Syrians must be hallucinating to claim such a thing when they cannot even shoot down non-stealthy Israeli F-16s and F-15s that routinely violate Syrian air space.

That one is really comic.

Isrealis had great opportunity to bust the Syrian Propaganda on the very day by showing the bird damaged plane to journalists. Funny that isrealis didn't do so. Maybe they don't wanna humiliate Syrians even more

Now the thing is, doubt still exists that S 200 damaged an F 35. No one can remove it.

 

[asianobserve]

Isrealis had great opportunity to bust the Syrian Propaganda on the very day by showing the bird damaged plane to journalists. Funny that isrealis didn't do so. Maybe they don't wanna humiliate Syrians even more

Now the thing is, doubt still exists that S 200 damaged an F 35. No one can remove it.

The Israelis are under no obligation to show their damaged F-35 which does not add anything to the information they already released. Any picture of the damaged body of the F-35 instead will allow Russia and China to study the RAM and construction of F-35, not in the interest of Israel is it?

Syrian propaganda can claim what they like but who would believe them? Perhaps they should start making sense in their propaganda by shooting down first non-stealthy F-16s.

 

[Flame Thrower]

The Israelis are under no obligation to show their damaged F-35 which does not add anything to the information they already released. Any picture of the damaged body of the F-35 instead will allow Russia and China to study the RAM and construction of F-35, not in the interest of Israel is it?

Syrian propaganda can claim what they like but who would believe them?

So, the Russians and Chinese would study the ram patterns just by looking at picture.

Doesn't this cover-up sounds pathetic.

Thank goodness, you didn't say anything about studying electronics and pilot tactics by looking at damaged F 35.

Well, I am not stupid enough to believe that damaged picture of a plane will allow anyone to study the RAM patterns.

Next time, come up with a better cover up.

 

[Flame Thrower]

The Israelis are under no obligation to show their damaged F-35 which does not add anything to the information they already released. Any picture of the damaged body of the F-35 instead will allow Russia and China to study the RAM and construction of F-35, not in the interest of Israel is it?

Syrian propaganda can claim what they like but who would believe them? Perhaps they should start making sense in their propaganda by shooting down first non-stealthy F-16s.

Here is a damaged F 35 pic.

Perhaps Russians already studied ram coating on F 35 and used it on PAK FA

https://theaviationist.com/2015/06/06/f-35-engine-fire-images/

 

[asianobserve]

Here is a damaged F 35 pic.

Perhaps Russians already studied ram coating on F 35 and used it on PAK FA

https://theaviationist.com/2015/06/06/f-35-engine-fire-images/

Sorry, my bad. That's the runway fire damaged F35.

 

[Flame Thrower]

You obviously don't know what you're talking about. Anyway, just survey the news articles from Syria of Syrian claims that it shot down Israeli fighters, a lot. Any truth in these claims? None! No wreckage, none! Almost everytime Israel bomb targets inside Syria Syrian propaganda will immediately claim it shot down Istaeli planes in the process!

You see in propaganda you must inject some modicum of truth in your claims. Now, Syria will always claim that it has shot down Israeli planes then the least they could do is show us some wreckage every now and then. But no wreckage all this time, not even bits of panel from downed Israeli planes? Man, that's so clumsy from Syrian propaganda!

Maybe you can relay my advice to them: if there are no wreckage since obviously they have not yet shot down any Israeli plane then at least fabricate some! There a lot of old Surian planes, they can paint them first like Usraeli fighters and tgen blow them up! Then post pieces of small parts from the blown up pieces! Then just claim that the pilot was rescued before Syrian forces reached tge crash site!

Always agree to disagree sir....

satirical comments won't do...

We both don't know the reality. Syria claims that they damaged one F 35, while in coincidence Isreali F 35 is also damaged by bird. Rather than simply brushing out as rants and propaganda, Isrealis could have shown damaged pic, they didn't.

Any sane would expect a damaged F 35 pic, not cock & bull stories.

The way I see it, picture is not available.

 

[asianobserve]

I'm sorry I misconstrued your posted picture. That's why I don't normally post using my smart phone (it's hard to read small characters).

 

[asianobserve]

Always agree to disagree sir....

satirical comments won't do...

We both don't know the reality. Syria claims that they damaged one F 35, while in coincidence Isreali F 35 is also damaged by bird. Rather than simply brushing out as rants and propaganda, Isrealis could have shown damaged pic, they didn't.

Any sane would expect a damaged F 35 pic, not cock & bull stories.

The way I see it, picture is not available.

As far as I can tell the Israelis are not panicking about this issue. They just relayed the information as they usually do without delving on it too much. This is how the IAF does its press release, short and direct. If you think you can bait the IAF into a tit-for-tat in press release about something that did not happen then you'll be disappointed. That kind of reaction only happens in defence forums like what w're doing now. Certainly, the professional IAF will not engage is such chit-chat.

 

[Immanuel]

A50 is all but modern my dear.

Says the guy coming from France which operates US made E-3s. Atleast the Russians have their own and A-50U is more than capable of handling such threats.

 

[Immanuel]

The F-35 was not used during the recent air attack in Syria, the F-35 at that point hadn't even achieved IOC in the IAF, no way they would have used in a live op without even basic IOC.

 

[Immanuel]

Yes, these missile can hit them....

... if only they can track it ! And they fly low, and are VLO.

If as some say, a F22 as a RCS of some cm², just imagine those of a SCALP....

To say the RCS of the SCALP is less than that of the F-22 is silly. There are hardly any RCS reduction measures, even the design is hardly stealthy. It can be tracked by Aerostats or AWACS quite easy, the slow speed also means it can be shot by a fighter that has been scrambled on intercept with a simple sidewinder, R-73

 

[Tactical Frog]

To say the RCS of the SCALP is less than that of the F-22 is silly. There are hardly any RCS reduction measures, even the design is hardly stealthy. It can be tracked by Aerostats or AWACS quite easy, the slow speed also means it can be shot by a fighter that has been scrambled on intercept with a simple sidewinder, R-73

No problem. Belgian and French Rafale armed wirh Meteors will clear the skys from all pesky AWACS.

French Air Force Chief of Staff is visiting India. I hope we hear some details about future Indian Rafale pilots.
.

 

[BON PLAN]

Says the guy coming from France which operates US made E-3s. Atleast the Russians have their own and A-50U is more than capable of handling such threats.

YES.
A medium country like France can't no more developp all fields of weapons and systems. We have the technology for, but not the budget and the minimum requirement.

Russia has its own AWACS. Nice. But it's not a so effective system than Falcon EW or E2C or E3.

 

[BON PLAN]

To say the RCS of the SCALP is less than that of the F-22 is silly. There are hardly any RCS reduction measures, even the design is hardly stealthy. It can be tracked by Aerostats or AWACS quite easy, the slow speed also means it can be shot by a fighter that has been scrambled on intercept with a simple sidewinder, R-73

NO, NO and NO.
The SCALP design is totally Stealth optimised. And quite full composite skinned.
Not to speak of the IR trace of a F22 versus a modern cruise missile.

 

[Armand2REP]

To say the RCS of the SCALP is less than that of the F-22 is silly. There are hardly any RCS reduction measures, even the design is hardly stealthy. It can be tracked by Aerostats or AWACS quite easy, the slow speed also means it can be shot by a fighter that has been scrambled on intercept with a simple sidewinder, R-73

It is pretty easy to say the RCS of Scalp is less than an F-22. They are both stealth but one is a massive fighter while the other is a cruise missile a fraction of the size. Hugging the terrain it is practically impossible to detect unless picked up by thermal sensors. All of the new US cruise missiles incorporate this technology.

 

[asianobserve]

NO, NO and NO.
The SCALP design is totally Stealth optimised. And quite full composite skinned.
Not to speak of the IR trace of a F22 versus a modern cruise missile.

Scalp is not totally stealth. It does not have to be since it avoids radar by following the terrain.

 

[Immanuel]

No problem. Belgian and French Rafale armed wirh Meteors will clear the skys from all pesky AWACS.

French Air Force Chief of Staff is visiting India. I hope we hear some details about future Indian Rafale pilots.
.

Keeping dreaming about a Belgian sale of Rafale, all the while they are in the F-35 camp, meanwhile estimated price of 34 F-35 A to Belgium is pegged around 6.5 billion which is priced similar to Rafale as well.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...jets-to-belgium-for-6-5-billion-idUSKBN1F82SY

http://www.dsca.mil/major-arms-sales/belgium-f-35-joint-strike-fighter-aircraft

The Government of Belgium has requested to buy thirty-four (34) F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Conventional Take Off and Landing (CTOL) aircraft, and thirty-eight (38) Pratt & Whitney F-135 engines (34 installed, 4 spares). Also included are Electronic Warfare Systems; Command, Control, Communications, Computer and Intelligence/Communications, Navigational, and Identification (C4I/CNI); Autonomic Logistics Global Support System (ALGS); Autonomic Logistics Information System (ALIS); Full Mission Trainer; Weapons Employment Capability, and other Subsystems, Features, and Capabilities; F-35 unique infrared flares; Reprogramming center; F-35 Performance Based Logistics; software development/integration; aircraft ferry and tanker support; support equipment; tools and test equipment; communications equipment; spares and repair parts; personnel training and training equipment; publications and technical documents; U.S. Government and contractor engineering and logistics personnel services; and other related elements of logistics and program support. The estimated total case value is $6.53 billion.

For India, I do hope more are ordered, having a 90-100 aircraft Rafale fleet i.e 5 sqds or 1 per air command is the ideal conclusion for this, having only 36 makes no sense.

 

[Immanuel]

It is pretty easy to say the RCS of Scalp is less than an F-22. They are both stealth but one is a massive fighter while the other is a cruise missile a fraction of the size. Hugging the terrain it is practically impossible to detect unless picked up by thermal sensors. All of the new US cruise missiles incorporate this technology.

Yes, having a inherently small rcs helps but the F-22 can supercruise, so can the Rafale and F-35, this reduces RCS even further. Moreso pilots are far better able to hug terrains. Also the Rafale, F-35, F-22 use very good EW suites which further detriorirates the ability for them to be detected. Modern AESA based aerostats and awacs can detect subsonic low flying and terrain hugging cruise missiles.

 

[BON PLAN]

Standard F4 Rafales will be fitted with an improved radar, a new datalink, improved electronic warfare / electronic attack systems, new air-to-air missiles, new air-to-surface guided weapons...

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/dae/sponsors/sponsor_rafale/img/fox3_19.pdf