Know Your 'Rafale'

[BON PLAN]

Scalp is not totally stealth. It does not have to be since it avoids radar by following the terrain.

nothing partially made of steel is totally stealth.
nothing moving > mach 0.5 (more or less) is totally IR stealth.

 

[BON PLAN]

estimated price of 34 F-35 A to Belgium is pegged around 6.5 billion which is priced similar to Rafale as well.

A good source for the french amount proposal ?

What are the details of the LM proposal? what kind and level of support? for how many time? For what level of disponibility? Etc...

it's important to be sure to compare the same things.

 

[BON PLAN]

the F-22 can supercruise, so can the Rafale and F-35, this reduces RCS even further.

1) No link between the RCS and the speed.
2) F35 can't supercruise according to LM own definition.

 

[Tactical Frog]

Keeping dreaming about a Belgian sale of Rafale, all the while they are in the F-35 camp, meanwhile estimated price of 34 F-35 A to Belgium is pegged around 6.5 billion which is priced similar to Rafale as well.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...jets-to-belgium-for-6-5-billion-idUSKBN1F82SY

http://www.dsca.mil/major-arms-sales/belgium-f-35-joint-strike-fighter-aircraft

The Government of Belgium has requested to buy thirty-four (34) F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Conventional Take Off and Landing (CTOL) aircraft, and thirty-eight (38) Pratt & Whitney F-135 engines (34 installed, 4 spares). Also included are Electronic Warfare Systems; Command, Control, Communications, Computer and Intelligence/Communications, Navigational, and Identification (C4I/CNI); Autonomic Logistics Global Support System (ALGS); Autonomic Logistics Information System (ALIS); Full Mission Trainer; Weapons Employment Capability, and other Subsystems, Features, and Capabilities; F-35 unique infrared flares; Reprogramming center; F-35 Performance Based Logistics; software development/integration; aircraft ferry and tanker support; support equipment; tools and test equipment; communications equipment; spares and repair parts; personnel training and training equipment; publications and technical documents; U.S. Government and contractor engineering and logistics personnel services; and other related elements of logistics and program support. The estimated total case value is $6.53 billion.

For India, I do hope more are ordered, having a 90-100 aircraft Rafale fleet i.e 5 sqds or 1 per air command is the ideal conclusion for this, having only 36 makes no sense.

Beware, my dreams have a tendancy to come true.

We shall know in less than a couple of weeks if Belgium rejects French offer. Rafale vs F-35 dogfight has the potential to tear this little country apart.

 

[WolfPack86]

Rafale fighter deal secrecy pact.

 

[WolfPack86]

When will govt will order additional Rafale jets.

 

[BON PLAN]

When will govt will order additional Rafale jets.

Maybe after or during the Pres. Macron next visit of India.

 

[Tactical Frog]

So ... all these figures from “sources” we got so far were just cat food ?

https://www.livefistdefence.com/2016/09/india-clears-rafale-deal-and-we-have-the-lowdown.html

 

[Immanuel]

A good source for the french amount proposal ?

What are the details of the LM proposal? what kind and level of support? for how many time? For what level of disponibility? Etc...

it's important to be sure to compare the same things.

French probably don't have a proposal yet. As for the F-35A, all that was written out in summary in the DSCA release. Availability etc are not publicly stated yet.

 

[Immanuel]

1) No link between the RCS and the speed.
2) F35 can't supercruise according to LM own definition.

Incorrect, you need to read up more about supersonic speeds and RCS before arguing further. LM has set a high standard for supercruise upon itself, but technically the F-35 can super cruise with a full internal role well beyond mach 1.2.

 

[Immanuel]

​

Beware, my dreams have a tendancy to come true.

We shall know in less than a couple of weeks if Belgium rejects French offer. Rafale vs F-35 dogfight has the potential to tear this little country apart.

Don't kid yourself, it is not going to tear itself apart because of a fighter competition. I see that France is already not following the rules of the competition, so French.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/belgium-casts-doubts-on-rafale-offer-441858/

Reminds of this thing that happened a few years ago when Rafale was nearly kicked out of the MRCA, all of sudden we saw a turn around and it was back in. I think some babus recieved their much awaited bumper cash prizes. It seems they are working on the same strategy in Belgium, actually it might work. For the corrupt and constipated swamp that is Brussels, such a strategy can be rewarding.

Keep at it guys, continues to prove that every deal of the Rafale (including India) is dubious at best with perhaps millions paid out to bureaucrats over the years, this is a good way to win, seems to be working.

 

[Tactical Frog]

Don't kid yourself, it is not going to tear itself apart because of a fighter competition. I see that France is already not following the rules of the competition, so French.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/belgium-casts-doubts-on-rafale-offer-441858/

Reminds of this thing that happened a few years ago when Rafale was nearly kicked out of the MRCA, all of sudden we saw a turn around and it was back in. I think some babus recieved their much awaited bumper cash prizes. It seems they are working on the same strategy in Belgium, actually it might work. For the corrupt and constipated swamp that is Brussels, such a strategy can be rewarding.

Keep at it guys, continues to prove that every deal of the Rafale (including India) is dubious at best with perhaps millions paid out to bureaucrats over the years, this is a good way to win, seems to be working.

It is not about corrupting some babus in Brussels. It is a war of influence between Paris and Washington there. It is about the future of european defence too. Will we ever be America’s protégés? The way French gov see it, competition was decided in favour of F-35 long time ago , just like in Denmark. So we decided not to play it nice and show our teeth. Period.

 

[BON PLAN]

Incorrect, you need to read up more about supersonic speeds and RCS before arguing further. LM has set a high standard for supercruise upon itself, but technically the F-35 can super cruise with a full internal role well beyond mach 1.2.

RCS is made from shape and materials. No link with speed.

Technically my grand mother could be my grand pather with a pair of testicles... F35 is only supercruising on a slight descent, and not more than Mach 1.2 (or mach 1.5 in a 30 seconds dive. LOL)

 

[asianobserve]

It is not about corrupting some babus in Brussels. It is a war of influence between Paris and Washington there. It is about the future of european defence too. Will we ever be America’s protégés? The way French gov see it, competition was decided in favour of F-35 long time ago , just like in Denmark. So we decided not to play it nice and show our teeth. Period.

How can it be a war for influence between Paris and Washington in Brussels? It's Belgium, the EU capital!

This is purely a fight for the best plane for the needs of Belgium. Since Belgium does not have a big military budget and that it only inducts one kind of fighter it must select the plane that it sees best serving its military needs in the next 30-40 years. It's that simple. Those who think otherwise are only trying to make excuses.

 

[BON PLAN]

Don't kid yourself, it is not going to tear itself apart because of a fighter competition. I see that France is already not following the rules of the competition, so French.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/belgium-casts-doubts-on-rafale-offer-441858/

Reminds of this thing that happened a few years ago when Rafale was nearly kicked out of the MRCA, all of sudden we saw a turn around and it was back in. I think some babus recieved their much awaited bumper cash prizes. It seems they are working on the same strategy in Belgium, actually it might work. For the corrupt and constipated swamp that is Brussels, such a strategy can be rewarding.

Keep at it guys, continues to prove that every deal of the Rafale (including India) is dubious at best with perhaps millions paid out to bureaucrats over the years, this is a good way to win, seems to be working.

October news....
since the belgium government said it will analyse the french proposal.

Seems that there is one and only one opposant : the belgium DM.....

 

[Tactical Frog]

How can it be a war for influence between Paris and Washington in Brussels? It's Belgium, the EU capital!

This is purely a fight for the best plane for the needs of Belgium. Since Belgium does not have a big military budget and that it only inducts one kind of fighter it must select the plane that it sees best serving its military needs in the next 30-40 years. It's that simple. Those who think otherwise are only trying to make excuses.

Brussels is also the NATO capital. It could not escape to your accute observer eyes

 

[Tactical Frog]

Rafale fighter deal secrecy pact.

According point e&d of Raksha Mantri’s reply, any additional Rafale order will imply another IGA . If I get it right.

 

[Immanuel]

It is not about corrupting some babus in Brussels. It is a war of influence between Paris and Washington there. It is about the future of european defence too. Will we ever be America’s protégés? The way French gov see it, competition was decided in favour of F-35 long time ago , just like in Denmark. So we decided not to play it nice and show our teeth. Period.

European Defense is farce, you can't be taken seriously while you rely on over 150 US nukes, thousands of US troops and a wide set of platfroms deployed in the heartland. As for being US proteges, well the French are just as much puppets to Washington as any other EU nation.

 

[Immanuel]

RCS is made from shape and materials. No link with speed.

Technically my grand mother could be my grand pather with a pair of testicles... F35 is only supercruising on a slight descent, and not more than Mach 1.2 (or mach 1.5 in a 30 seconds dive. LOL)

Perhaps your grandma is indeed your grandpa with a pair of testicles that is none of my concern. Can't argue with somone who doesn't know the effect of supersonic speed on rcs, educate yourself before continuing this chat. As for the F-35, it can reach and maintain mach 1.2+ in level flight with a full internal load.

 

[Immanuel]

October news....
since the belgium government said it will analyse the french proposal.

Seems that there is one and only one opposant : the belgium DM.....

Offcourse they will analyse it and they should.