Know Your 'Rafale'

[Steven Rogers]

If that is your feeling then why were you doing Russia this, Russia that?

Check the above massive comment about degrading Indian military stuff of Russia origin.

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[Tactical Frog]

A glimpse of a Rafale training center in Egypt.

 

[BON PLAN]

Yeah Mig29s armed with R77 weren't giving air cover to M2k, despite a multirole, it needed an escort plane in the war, Mig21 was used extensively in 1971.

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Just because M2000 was THE SOLE plane able to reach the proper altitude and lauched safely laser guided bombs (it was the role of Mig 23, mig 27, but they were unable to).
And at those time the indian Mirage 2000 weren't -5 or -9, so you have to choose between full air to air or defensive short range air and offensive atoG weapons.

Now with -5 and tomorrow Rafale, no need of anything else.

 

[Metrology]

It is in the future. What is there now? Bag of shit.

Even India is developing GaN radar for the future. In fact, India has UTTAM radar as of now which is about to be completed while SAAB has no AESA radar at all, not even older technology GaAs radar.

So, your point is still moot.

Hmm... The new Erieye is has a GaN AESA. Present tense, not future.
https://quwa.org/2017/05/21/pakistan-will-acquire-three-new-saab-erieye-aewc/

As does the Giraffe.
http://saab.com/land/istar/multi-role-surveillance-system/giraffe-4a/

They have even gotten industry recognition for being in the front line developing GaN devices.
http://m.aviationweek.com/technology/innovation-laureate-raytheon-and-saab-gan-galvanizers

And they have a GaN AESA-radar for fighters.
http://m.aviationweek.com/defense/saab-says-it-ready-produce-gan-radar-sensor

The latest iteration of the PS-05/A for the C/D is a digital radar. With signalprocessing it is claimed to double effective range.
http://saabgroup.com/Media/news-press/news/2015-04/upgraded-ps-05a-radar-gives-gripen-cd/

SAAB is helping Northtrop Grumman with a new ground radar for the US Marines.
http://saab.com/region/north-americ...-corps-groundair-task-oriented-radar-program/

You can also find SAAB radars in the US navy on the littoral combat ships. The carriers also have radars from SAAB.
https://saab.com/es/region/north-am...ct-for-US-Navys-Littoral-Combat-Ship-Program/

So what are you talking about? SAAB has a fair degree of experience in radar development, and are ahead of pretty much everyone when it comes to GaN.

 

[Kshithij]

Hmm... The new Erieye is has a GaN AESA. Present tense, not future.
https://quwa.org/2017/05/21/pakistan-will-acquire-three-new-saab-erieye-aewc/

Nope, the article says that it is not mentioned what AESA it is.

As does the Giraffe.
http://saab.com/land/istar/multi-role-surveillance-system/giraffe-4a/

Yes, it seems they have developed land based gaN radar. But, there is no evidence that they have made aewacs or fighter jet radar. Even USA has GaN radar for AEGIS and Patriot missile defence. India also has made GaN modules. The problem here is that they are big and inefficient as of now. It is important to miniaturise them. These things are technology demonstrators only.

They have even gotten industry recognition for being in the front line developing GaN devices.
http://m.aviationweek.com/technology/innovation-laureate-raytheon-and-saab-gan-galvanizers

And they have a GaN AESA-radar for fighters.
http://m.aviationweek.com/defense/saab-says-it-ready-produce-gan-radar-sensor

Won't be convinced until I see the radar as such. They don't have fighter based GaN AESA or even older GaAs AESA for fighters as of now.

The latest iteration of the PS-05/A for the C/D is a digital radar. With signalprocessing it is claimed to double effective range.
http://saabgroup.com/Media/news-press/news/2015-04/upgraded-ps-05a-radar-gives-gripen-cd/

SAAB is helping Northtrop Grumman with a new ground radar for the US Marines.
http://saab.com/region/north-americ...-corps-groundair-task-oriented-radar-program/

You can also find SAAB radars in the US navy on the littoral combat ships. The carriers also have radars from SAAB.
https://saab.com/es/region/north-am...ct-for-US-Navys-Littoral-Combat-Ship-Program/

So what are you talking about? SAAB has a fair degree of experience in radar development, and are ahead of pretty much everyone when it comes to GaN.

I agree that SAAB has experience with radar design and manufacture. But, they don't have AESA for fighter jets as of now. They don't have the ability to miniaturise. I am not speaking of big ass radars but miniaturised radars. India has UTTAM while SAAB has nothing.

 

[Steven Rogers]

Nope, the article says that it is not mentioned what AESA it is.



Yes, it seems they have developed land based gaN radar. But, there is no evidence that they have made aewacs or fighter jet radar. Even USA has GaN radar for AEGIS and Patriot missile defence. India also has made GaN modules. The problem here is that they are big and inefficient as of now. It is important to miniaturise them. These things are technology demonstrators only.


Won't be convinced until I see the radar as such. They don't have fighter based GaN AESA or even older GaAs AESA for fighters as of now.


I agree that SAAB has experience with radar design and manufacture. But, they don't have AESA for fighter jets as of now. They don't have the ability to miniaturise. I am not speaking of big ass radars but miniaturised radars. India has UTTAM while SAAB has nothing.

Saab has VIXEN 1000E

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[Kshithij]

Saab has VIXEN 1000E

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It belongs to SELEX, not SAAB. SAAB buys it from SELEX to be used in Gripen. It is not fair to say that SAAB manufactures it. SAAB assembles it

 

[smestarz]

OK, I shall consider the point that air force has to choose between the role for the plane, but also the point is that there is no rule that all planes in the squadron, if flying a mission together should have same weapon load,
Some can be armed with A2G load and some with A2A load.
The fact is that the Mirage did not have a capable A2A threat then, their Radar was inefficient (and still is) and their missiles were much older. On other hands MiG-29 had way better radar with much longer range and better A2A weapons load

So had Mirage gone with mix armed with A2G and A2A loaded planes, then surely F-16 which would all be in A2A load would have shot down ALL MIRAGE 2000.
So it was sensible to send Mirage in A2G role and MiG-29 as protection.

BTW Indian Mirage had only few weapons and that is why it was not considered as a strike plane during kargil, Only when Jaguar was out of the game that time IAF went into panic mode and took help from Israel to fit Targeting pods and smart bombs

Just because M2000 was THE SOLE plane able to reach the proper altitude and lauched safely laser guided bombs (it was the role of Mig 23, mig 27, but they were unable to).
And at those time the indian Mirage 2000 weren't -5 or -9, so you have to choose between full air to air or defensive short range air and offensive atoG weapons.

Now with -5 and tomorrow Rafale, no need of anything else.

 

[WolfPack86]

Rafale fighter aircraft

 

[WolfPack86]

Do any one know where is Sancho is i have not seen him in forum for past 3 days?.

 

[WolfPack86]

Rafale fighter aircraft.

 

[WolfPack86]

Congress almost won gujarat but luckily bjp won in slight margin. Why are Indian people still voting for congress?.

 

[WolfPack86]

Reliance defamation suit.

 

[mattster]

India won 2 wars with Russian equipment, India is safe due to Russian equipment, India is manufacturing Russian equipment, Indian aerospace got boost and developed to an advance stage due Russian equipment, and future war will not be won by imported equipments, as far as rafale is concerned, only Indian variant is advance than any other Indian fighter and Su30mki has been the work horse for more than 18 years, it will be for one more. All about availability, CAG REPORT suggest Su30mki, the most used aircraft by Indian airforce and now with the current availability of 65 percent and improving. Inferior avionics(Su30mki has bars radar, Mig29k and upg has Zhuk radar), all Indian fighters have Indian datalink, rafale will have that too, so networking is Indian, Su30mki has IRST, PESA radar since its induction, get above the word "possibility " and believe the actual report than the stunts played by west and Americans to down play Indian equipment which in the failed to prove their own when evaluated by US.

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It not that the Russians are not smart or good engineers or that Russian equipment is inferior.
They are very skilled engineers.

The issue is that Russia does not have the money to pour into defense like they did during the Soviet days.
During the Soviet times - they invested huge amounts of their GDP into building defense to fight the Cold war and eventually bankrupted themselves doing it. Today, they have wisely realized that it does not make sense to spend so heavily on defense, and they have cutback and fallen far behind in many areas. Their technology and military industrial base is lagging not because of the lack of talent but the lack of R&D spending and defense infrastructure spending.
They have no commercial/industrial export economy, except for a small military export economy. Their economy is almost 100% dependent on raw materials, mainly petroleum, & minerals like copper, etc., and with petroleum prices being in the dumpster - they are hurting even more now than ever.

So any country(not just India) that depends heavily on Russia for its military needs, has to read the writing on the wall. They have to realize that they are riding a horse that is well past its prime, and they have to find other solutions. That's exactly what the top brass of the Indian military are doing now by slowing pivoting away from Russians and towards the West.

 

[BON PLAN]

And they have a GaN AESA-radar for fighters.
http://m.aviationweek.com/defense/saab-says-it-ready-produce-gan-radar-sensor

Hope it's not like the Captor E ! ready to be produced until 4 or 5 years.....

 

[BON PLAN]

Some can be armed with A2G load and some with A2A load.
The fact is that the Mirage did not have a capable A2A threat then, their Radar was inefficient (and still is) and their missiles were much older. On other hands MiG-29 had way better radar with much longer range and better A2A weapons load

So had Mirage gone with mix armed with A2G and A2A loaded planes, then surely F-16 which would all be in A2A load would have shot down ALL MIRAGE 2000.
So it was sensible to send Mirage in A2G role and MiG-29 as protection.

IAF only had 40 to 50 Mirage 2000. Some of them used for deterrence, sa a small fllet available for other role.
The primarily fonction of M2000 was air to air. I don't uderstand why, except your renowned french bashing, you say it didn't have proper radar and AtoA missile.

And a fact, my dear Smestarz : The SOLE F16 shoot down during a air air engagement was by a greek M2000 in 1996 (so a Mirage 2000 with old RDM radar, against newer F16 D !).

 

[BON PLAN]

Do any one know where is Sancho is i have not seen him in forum for past 3 days?.

Yes, he used another name : Smestarz.

 

[Sancho]

I am afraid the govt will not order another 36 rafales because opposition is hell bent on questioning govt on rafale deal. 5 MPS of different parties have send notice in parliment to discuss rafale deal on monday. Looks like opposition and media are favouring EuroFighter Typhoon it seems both of them got money from their boss. In worst case if govt order another twin engine fighter jet contest it will be waste of time and money.

You have to keep in mind, that it was the BJP that opposed Rafale in the first place! They were against it when they were in opposition and even delayed negations for silly reasons back then, just as it were BJP officials that first complained about PM Modi's 36 Rafale deal and last but not least, it was NDAs own DM Parrikar that stated, that India will not buy more than 36 Rafales for strategic reasons only!

So Congress doing pretty much the same, by asking valid questions is not deciding if more Rafales will come or not, but mainly Dassaults ego problem and budget constrains with a GDP that got down to 5.7% again.
Even Air Chief Dhanoa stated, that IAF wants SE MMRCAs as a priority to make up numbers and add 2 squads of Rafales at a later point, if necessary funds are available.

 

[BON PLAN]

You have to keep in mind, that it was the BJP that opposed Rafale in the first place! They were against it when they were in opposition and even delayed negations for silly reasons back then, just as it were BJP officials that first complained about PM Modi's 36 Rafale deal and last but not least, it was NDAs own DM Parrikar that stated, that India will not buy more than 36 Rafales for strategic reasons only!

So Congress doing pretty much the same, by asking valid questions is not deciding if more Rafales will come or not, but mainly Dassaults ego problem and budget constrains with a GDP that got down to 5.7% again.
Even Air Chief Dhanoa stated, that IAF wants SE MMRCAs as a priority to make up numbers and add 2 squads of Rafales at a later point, if necessary funds are available.

It's an internal indian political game : whatever the plane choiced, it will be put in trouble by opposition. So classical.

 

[Sancho]

UAE is a fierce negociator. They want the best solution at a discount price.

Lol yes, because UAE is know for buying cheap stuff and not willing to pay extra.
The simple fact that even the UAE found Rafale to be too costly tells a lot and if they publicly criticised specifically Dassault, it also shows where the problem is and we saw the same problem in India too.

It's an internal indian political game : whatever the plane choiced, it will be put in trouble by opposition. So classical.

True, but it could had been avoided if Dassault had played it straight and not tried to play India. Because then we would had seen an order of 126 Rafales and probably the first one landed in India already.