Know Your 'Rafale'

lcafanboy

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cross post from IDF Parikrama:

Few more pointers
  • Gripen E chances are far less from the acquisition perspective
  • IAF was more keen on readily available Gripen C/D which was bypassed for LCA MK1A.
  • Gripen E brings limited things to table contarty to popular belief.
  • There are more indications within MOD papers that operational GaN based radar and EW system will be first with Thales than with any other European country.
  • The same will be available to customised Indian standard for the fleet of Rafale.
  • That has dented a lot of confidence among the Gripen E acquisition coupled with a lead time which is very prolong.
  • The PR campaign of India getting GaN tech with Gripen E is as of date "unsubstantiated" as per reports with MOD and "awaiting follow up evidence" asked few months back
  • The scope of G2G deal for SE is still not fully ruled out as the whole process has more scope of Single Vendor situation owing to many of the technicalities being not met by SAAB and the process fine tuned to suit the choice of PMO.
  • The LCA Mk1A with French help is now taken as plan B subject to France delivering what it says in true essence and spirit.
  • There is additional pressure on France as the window of opportunity might get limited with Mk1A program getting delayed.. for all the systems to be in place.
About FGFA
  • Negative report emnates from multiple things including the issue of PAKFA Stage 1 being crude from inside.
  • PAKFA Stage 2 will require more time to mature.
  • A total of 275+ modifications have been talked about FGFA over PAKFA Stage 2 in the file report.. cannot quote details in public...(earlier I said 150+ here but told correct figure to many in private)
  • The aforesaid details is going to cost additional investments which Russia won't share and will be under Indian Customization head from Day1.
  • But bigger challenge is HAL will not get anything above MKI level work for PAKFA Stage 2 to FGFA plan.
  • Certain Key research areas will be outside the scope of India unless India coughs up additional funds.
  • There are reports indicating that J-20 might be able to do more damage than previously indicated and in next decade it's maturity will outpace PAKFA program considerably.
  • There is a confidential report shared by LM needing more investments in F-35 program to bring it to quicker maturity.
  • It talks about a potential scenario where J-20 versus a certain USA Ally (India's very good friend as well) is getting hammerred a lot and this is alarming to the whole NATO.
  • In the same paper, the assessment of PAKFA stage 2 is shown from American perspective and they certainly believe the present Fleet of 4.5 gen planes like F-18 ASH , F-15 SE and European Duo Rafale F4 and Gripen E FOC standard will make a strong match to this bird.
  • Their contention states that European aircrafts are evolving fast and will soon out match Russian planes completely and will rival LM F-35 program unless F-35 is speeded up.

What PM Modi wants from F-16 deal ?
  • Beyond what is written before, what PM NM wants us priority weightage for ordering F-35.
  • The second thing which PM NM wants is also termed top priority - transformation package of F-15 To F-15 SE.
  • PM NM and MOD/PMO realises that 272 MKI will be there for another 20+ years easily.
  • Their planned MLU can be uplifted further if the "SEMI STEALTH" features of Silent Eagles can be incorporated into MKI.
  • The systems may not be directly USA MIC based but a spin off using Israel and French systems with Russian tech in Indian MIC is looked at for achieving a transformation package.
  • This also provides a breathing space in Heavy Category Fighters which needs a upgrade.
  • It is this aspect where PM NM had got disappointment with refusal coming from various USA officials including POTUS citing "difficult to get a deal with Senate"
The same will be asked again soon.. for one more push..

In the meantime, on the insistence of NSA Doval ,French officials have been contacted to take their inputs and possible solutions.. if French team Dassault can provide some credible solution, there is a stronger possibility of looking at a better deal in numbers and fleet optimization.

Of course it's for a competitive price and considerable usage in other Indian products in planned future.
 

Tactical Frog

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Just one small problem : money....
Another small problem : human rights situation in Egypt. It is deteriorating so fast it is hard keeping pretending that is none of our business. We are back to square one before Tahir square , supporting Arab dictatorships whatever the damage they inflict to their own people.

But here are the sad facts : we chose a long time ago to sacrifice defence budgets in order to keep social expenditures high. We gift kids in schools with samsung notepads .. that is the kind of BS we got accustomized too. So we need those orders from Qatar and Egypt to keep the Rafale line running ! There was a time when we used to order more than 11 Rafale a year for the Armee de l’Air and French Navy. Down to zero today !

I would be so proud of seeing our Rafale in the hands of strong democracies like India . A dream only.
 
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Tactical Frog

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Rafale batch 2 order : 48 Rafale delivered between December 2004 and Novmber 2008. With such initial rate, we would not be so far of 286 Rafale target .
 

BON PLAN

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Another small problem : human rights situation in Egypt. It is deteriorating so fast it is hard keeping pretending that is none of our business. We are back to square one before Tahir square , supporting Arab dictatorships whatever the damage they inflict to their own people.
It was, maybe, an argument for Hollande (the pedalo captain), it is not for Macron.
 

Bahamut

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human rights situation in Egypt. It is deteriorating so fast it is hard keeping pretending that is none of our business. We are back to square one before Tahir square , supporting Arab dictatorships whatever the damage they inflict to their own people.
Egypt is an important ally against Islamic extremists, yes the have a bad human rights situation, it is partly because of the presence of these in groups in large quantities and they can easily justify the purchase as used to fighting terrorism
 

Armand2REP

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Another small problem : human rights situation in Egypt. It is deteriorating so fast it is hard keeping pretending that is none of our business. We are back to square one before Tahir square , supporting Arab dictatorships whatever the damage they inflict to their own people.

But here are the sad facts : we chose a long time ago to sacrifice defence budgets in order to keep social expenditures high. We gift kids in schools with samsung notepads .. that is the kind of BS we got accustomized too. So we need those orders from Qatar and Egypt to keep the Rafale line running ! There was a time when we used to order more than 11 Rafale a year for the Armee de l’Air and French Navy. Down to zero today !

I would be so proud of seeing our Rafale in the hands of strong democracies like India . A dream only.
If you think a little thing like human rights will stop French arm sales just open a history book.
 

Tactical Frog

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If you think a little thing like human rights will stop French arm sales just open a history book.

I know history . It is my right to not be proud of it ! Saddam Hussein, south African apartheid regime, Kadhafi, Argentinian junta, all excellent customers, to name a few.. And these were not even « clients » like sub saharian african countries. Some things never change and we never learn . Note that Argentinian Exocets ended killing other European soldiers. Kadhafi turned his army against our interests. Saddam ended sending Scuds to Israel.

Egypt is an important ally against Islamic extremists, yes the have a bad human rights situation, it is partly because of the presence of these in groups in large quantities and they can easily justify the purchase as used to fighting terrorism
Sisi tricked everyone . He was supposed to secure a transition towards a democratic Egypt, without the threat of Muslim Brothers taking full control of the country. Instead he suppressed all freedom of speech and liberties in his country. You cannot justify anything in the name of fighting terrorism.
 

Armand2REP

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Sisi tricked everyone . He was supposed to secure a transition towards a democratic Egypt, without the threat of Muslim Brothers taking full control of the country. Instead he suppressed all freedom of speech and liberties in his country. You cannot justify anything in the name of fighting terrorism.
Don't act like Arabs can have a democracy, they only thrive under a strong hand. el-Sisi is pounding the crap out of ISIS with his beloved Rafales and we will sell him as many as he can afford.
 

WolfPack86

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DASSAULT-REL AEROSPACE PARK A REALITY NOW; FOUNDATION STONE TO BE LAID
In a move to promote the Make-in-India initiative of the Government in order to bring in more foreign direct investment (FDI) into the country, the Dhirubhai Ambani Aerospace Park at Multimodal International Hub Airport at Nagpur (MIHAN) has become a reality now as French aircraft manufacturer Dassault Aviation and Anil Ambani-led Reliance Aerospace Ltd will lay the foundation stone of the aerospace park on Friday, a top official of Reliance Aerospace said.

According to sources, Dassault Aviation and Reliance Defence have teamed up in a 49:51 stake joint venture. “The park is being set up as part of Dassault’s offset obligations for the Rs 58,000 crore deal to supply 36 Rafale fighter jets to India. The deal was signed in September last year,” sources said, adding that the park will also be home to the largest defence sector FDI in the country.
“It is expected that production at the facility will be started in the first quarter of 2018 and phase one of this defence project will be fully operational by the third quarter of 2018,” it said.

The bhoomipuja of the aerospace park at MIHAN is expected to be performed by Union Minister for Road Transport and Shipping Nitin Gadkari, Maharashtra Chief Minister Devendra Fadnavis and Reliance Group Chairman Anil Ambani on October 27. The Commerce Ministry has already given the approval for the project that has the capacity to change the economic scenario of Vidarbha.

However, it is also learnt that the Maharashtra Airport Development Company (MADC) is the nodal agency for developing the aerospace park. “The Phase-I of the project is expected to generate more than 700 highly-skilled direct jobs and 3,000 indirect jobs. The aerospace park will eventually generate more than 10,000 jobs, promoting the ‘Make in India’ and ‘Skill India’ initiatives of the Government. Reliance has decided to start construction on 104 acres of land,” sources said.

The Dhirubhai Ambani Aerospace Park (DAAP) is being set up in the city's Mihaan Special Economic Zone. Spread over 289 acres, DAAP is touted to be the largest greenfield aerospace project in India.

The joint venture will be the leading entity to execute the Rafale offset programme. “The aerospace park will have assembly lines and manufacturing facilities for fixed wing aircraft and will produce aircraft components for global markets,” said an official of Reliance Aerospace Ltd.

“The Dassault-Reliance partnership will bring in not only high level transfer of technology but also help develop the eco-system of the domestic aerospace sector and feed into the global supply chain,” said the official, adding that a large number of Indian MSMEs are also expected to set up facilities at DAAP.
http://www.indiandefensenews.in/2017/10/dassault-rel-aerospace-park-reality-now.html
 

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