Know Your 'Rafale'

[Steven Rogers]

Shut up................,.........You not even crossed 20 posts and here you teaching a person who is a member since 2010.

I'm sorry but i thought experience adds sensibility.. Case is otherwise.

 

[singh100ful]

I don't mind getting 100-180 Rafale if we are getting Kaveri fixed but then MoD should stop this SE tender drama..

GoI does not have the money to pay for those 180 rafales, and indians are not ready to have some extra tax burden after demonetisation and GST.
We are not getting kaveri fixed, what the french have proposed is to work with them on their new engine which will later be made by indian firms with atleast 60% indigenous content and also with the TOT of that engine which will be used to rectify the kaveri by GTRE scientist.
The single engine drama is going to end with the selection of f-16.

 

[singh100ful]

Hi to all,
My words:
If Safran/GTRE Kaveri will meet its success than it will be possible to retrofit on India Rafales, but also on Gripen (if selected)

@S.Balaji @Kunal Biswas @gadeshi @soikot banerjee @Vijyes @Sidd @Armand2REP @varun9509 @su30mki2017

It is not that easy to retro fit any engine on any aircraft.
At first the engine is certified for its air worthiness and later it will fly on a test bed.
Rafale being a twin engine aircraft can be done but i doubt for gripen.
Even if it is done wil require atleast four years from the time the engine has passed all its ground parameters.
But also why would the end user IAF want to waste time in testing the thing which they are not sure about, already a lot of time is lost and they are down to 32 sqn.

 

[Armand2REP]

GoI does not have the money to pay for those 180 rafales, and indians are not ready to have some extra tax burden after demonetisation and GST.
We are not getting kaveri fixed, what the french have proposed is to work with them on their new engine which will later be made by indian firms with atleast 60% indigenous content and also with the TOT of that engine which will be used to rectify the kaveri by GTRE scientist.
The single engine drama is going to end with the selection of f-16.

If they don't have the money for Rafale they certainly don't have money for F-16s that cost more than Rafale.

 

[singh100ful]

If they don't have the money for Rafale they certainly don't have money for F-16s that cost more than Rafale.

Rafales are bought off the shelf, whereas F-16 will be locally assembled.
The closing f-16 plant would be shifted to India, so we will be assembling them from semi knock down kits or completely knock down kits, in the same way the TAI have been assembling them.
Once the economy of scale picks up lots of components can be sourced locally and we would also be making spares for our own requirements.

 

[dineshchaturvedi]

a

BTW what is MSM?
I am new on this forum.

Mainstream Media, this is nothing to do with defense.

 

[Armand2REP]

Rafales are bought off the shelf, whereas F-16 will be locally assembled.
The closing f-16 plant would be shifted to India, so we will be assembling them from semi knock down kits or completely knock down kits, in the same way the TAI have been assembling them.
Once the economy of scale picks up lots of components can be sourced locally and we would also be making spares for our own requirements.

Further orders of Rafale will be produced in India under the DRAL JV. It would be the only production line outside of the OEM country. F-16 is produced in 5 different countries. If you think you will be getting orders for foreign F-16s the competition is pretty stiff especially with US not buying anymore. With a Rafale production France will outsource components for the ALA production to India as they can be made cheaper in reducing the final cost to French taxpayers as well as further exports of Rafale. The value add is with the French offer.

 

[TPFscopes]

It is not that easy to retro fit any engine on any aircraft.
At first the engine is certified for its air worthiness and later it will fly on a test bed.
Rafale being a twin engine aircraft can be done but i doubt for gripen.
Even if it is done wil require atleast four years from the time the engine has passed all its ground parameters.
But also why would the end user IAF want to waste time in testing the thing which they are not sure about, already a lot of time is lost and they are down to 32 sqn.

I request you to move to Kaveri Engine thread than you will be able to get the answer for all your questions.

And you must go through all serial updates about all related topics to comment on them.

I hope you will not get surprised when my comment gets true in future.

Good Day

 

[singh100ful]

Further orders of Rafale will be produced in India under the DRAL JV. It would be the only production line outside of the OEM country. F-16 is produced in 5 different countries. If you think you will be getting orders for foreign F-16s the competition is pretty stiff especially with US not buying anymore. With a Rafale production France will outsource components for the ALA production to India as they can be made cheaper in reducing the final cost to French taxpayers as well as further exports of Rafale. The value add is with the French offer.

I never said about exporting F-16 from india to other, and it still can't be done without US's permission.
The DRAL JV is only for the part of offset obligations and may be for spares.

 

[singh100ful]

I request you to move to Kaveri Engine thread than you will be able to get the answer for all your questions.

And you must go through all serial updates about all related topics to comment on them.

I hope you will not get surprised when my comment gets true in future.

Good Day

thanks.
will definitely go through it.

 

[StealthFlanker]

Oh, I see. That is what I was suspicious about. This simply means that F22 can be easily spotted from the ground based radar if it is flying at high altitude or when flying at a low altitude by an AEWACS plane (generally 30000-35000 feet altitude).
The stealth ends up becoming a scam or a marketing stunt. The VLO actually becomes detectable as the RCS increases drastically when viewing from either top or bottom.

That is incorrect.
The design of stealth fighters give them low RCS not only directly frontal but also against radars at different elevation in frontal aspect. For most stealth aircraft low spike arcs cover up to 20-30° in elevation and 45-60° in azimuth.

RAM play a role too

Finally, stealth aircraft fly at low altitude are much harder to detect.

 

[smestarz]

Are the french sounding like bad losers?

If they don't have the money for Rafale they certainly don't have money for F-16s that cost more than Rafale.

 

[Superdefender]

Ambala, Hasimara Airforce Bases Being Readied For Rafale Jets
The government has already sanctioned Rs 220 crore to set up 14 shelters, hangers and maintenance facilities at the 78-year-old base for the Rafale jets.

All India | Press Trust of India | Updated: October 01, 2017 13:37 IST

Link: https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/ambala-hasimara-airforce-bases-being-readied-for-rafale-jets-1757300

 

[WolfPack86]

IAF chief confirms there’s a requirement for more twin-Engine fighters down the road, that means more Rafales!

The force will probably issue an RFI for twin-engined fighters once the single-engined contract is signed, possibly around 2019.

One advantage of buying more Rafales a bit late is that we can get the F4 configuration instead of the current F3R+ version being procured.
https://www.facebook.com/pg/TejasMrca/photos/?ref=page_internal

 

[BON PLAN]

IAF chief confirms there’s a requirement for more twin-Engine fighters down the road, that means more Rafales!

The force will probably issue an RFI for twin-engined fighters once the single-engined contract is signed, possibly around 2019.

One advantage of buying more Rafales a bit late is that we can get the F4 configuration instead of the current F3R+ version being procured.
https://www.facebook.com/pg/TejasMrca/photos/?ref=page_internal

Any Rafale produced so far can be upgraded to F4.1 (and it seems not F4.2 at least for France fleet. Why? I don't know if it's a cost issue or a technical one because it involve hardware modifications).

The last french Rafale from the 4th batch to be delivered will include these famous harware modifications provisions so as to be upgraded to F4.2. I don't know if the Indian first 36 can be upgraded to F4.2

And after the 4th batch (from N° 120 to 180), France is to order a last 5th batch from at least 45 planes. F4.2 or MLU or NG or ....

 

[square]

IAF chief confirms there’s a requirement for more twin-Engine fighters

that could also means mig35...

 

[BON PLAN]

Any Rafale produced so far can be upgraded to F4.1 (and it seems not F4.2 at least for France fleet. Why? I don't know if it's a cost issue or a technical one because it involve hardware modifications).

The last french Rafale from the 4th batch to be delivered will include these famous harware modifications provisions so as to be upgraded to F4.2. I don't know if the Indian first 36 can be upgraded to F4.2

And after the 4th batch (from N° 120 to 180), France is to order a last 5th batch from at least 45 planes. F4.2 or MLU or NG or ....

I have received some news about F4.1 and F4.2 : Any F3 can be upgraded to F4.1 and F4.2
F4.1 is mainly a software evolution.
F4.2 is mainly a hardware evolution (ie new antennae? new radar? new satcom? ....)

 

[BON PLAN]

that could also means mig35...

YES.
or SH18.
But it would be a logistical nightmare to have two differents TE for the same mission. And the fixed costs for Rafale are already paid.
If you choose another TE fighter, you will have to pay another time for test bench, tools, spares, training...

 

[square]

YES.
or SH18.
But it would be a logistical nightmare to have two differents TE for the same mission. And the fixed costs for Rafale are already paid.
If you choose another TE fighter, you will have to pay another time for test bench, tools, spares, training...

cost was the detereace so to scrap mmrca and buy 36 only....
f18 is not cheap either....

what govt looking is low cost and TOPT....
only mig35 can fit then....

 

[binayak95]

that could also means mig35...

NO. The IAF is fed up with Russian service (lack of) and maintenance issues, not to mention the cost jacking! IAF is very firm on this - thus the reluctance to buy the FGFA.