Know Your 'Rafale'

[Kchontha]

You didn't understand my question, the Rafale can fire the Meteor,my question is about making the full use of Meteor's features.

The French Rafales only have one way Datalink with meteor so I was inquiring whether the Indian Rafales will have the same limitations

Which has been addressed by @Armand2REP

It seems like you also misunderstood my answer. Meteor of France was supposed to be 1W DL but it was uneconomical so decided against it and sticked to 2W DL. Rafale is upgraded to F3-R standard to be compatible with meteor with its full capabilities. These upgrades include rafale's L-16 to a more capable DL. Meteor integrated Rafales in its full confuguration will be deliveted to French AF and navy in 2018. Therefore there is no question of limitations as far as meteor is concerned. French AF and navy are not fools to accept rafale or meteor with limitation. Being custum made for custemer requirements Indian version of Rafale will have the same capabilities.

 

[smestarz]

Gaddafi was naive enough to believe that UN charter was just for the protection of innocent and so the French and other air forces were only deploying no fly zone to ensure that Gaddafi was not using planes and tanks at civilian targets, and Gaddafi had complied to this mandate of UN, I believe that Gaddafi was assured by the French that they would support him, As he was in discussion with French for French weapons, and then this mandate for "enforcement of No fly zone" changed into "change of leadership" mandate, and the rest as they say is history

That rather sounds like conspiracy theories to explain your bias. To believe Rafale didn't get shot at because Gaddafi was being magnanimous while it dismantled his war machine is ludicrous.

 

[Armand2REP]

Considering Gaddafi had no idea whose planes were bombing him at that time it makes your whole conspiracy moot.

Gaddafi was naive enough to believe that UN charter was just for the protection of innocent and so the French and other air forces were only deploying no fly zone to ensure that Gaddafi was not using planes and tanks at civilian targets, and Gaddafi had complied to this mandate of UN, I believe that Gaddafi was assured by the French that they would support him, As he was in discussion with French for French weapons, and then this mandate for "enforcement of No fly zone" changed into "change of leadership" mandate, and the rest as they say is history

 

[BON PLAN]

When Rafale was designed or built, France did not have a clue of RCS or to be more correct about RCS reduction, why else would they come up with a 4th Gen plane when the Americans are designing a 5th Gen plane? So France though has the biggest facility, they did not have the capability of the funds to make a 5th gen plane. Not even now. That time most countries did want a 5th Gen plane but then thought it would be too expensive and their economies could not support it. How many countries including france and Germany and Russia would say during 90s spend 500 million dollar on a single bomber? No one.

So they were comfortable buidling their 4th Gen plane as per their requirements which were good enough, Then came the end of the first decade of 2000 and most countries managed to learn about Stealth, but at the same time they have problems.
a) They have an expensive 4th Gen plane which has not reached its full value (due to expense on R&D) and so they cannot invest in new one. Russia has that same issue wiht Su-57 and Su-35S where Su-35S has not reached its full potential, and Russia does not have the immediate requirement for 5th Gen plane, but India does.
b)They dont have funds to invest in an expensive plane, and what planes are these new 5th Gen planes going to replace? Those would be perfectly good, less than half life used 4th gen planes, so no use either.
So these companies started to invest in 5th Gen tech, and tried to incorporate some of them
1. Rafale was never designed as stealth or VLO but as pure 4th gen plane
2. It could not super cruise as per true definition, but nor can F-35


You are right that Rafale was designed as deep strike aircraft, and so is Jaguar. So you mean to say Indian Jaguar which are now upgraded with AESA etc are as good as Rafale?

No true.

Rafale A was studied without RCS objective. It was "only" a test bench for new aerodynamic formula (close coupled delta) that emerge from some others after simulation and test in air vents and for numeric FBW.
It was a sucess.
So the french decided to use this formula for their next gen fighter. AND THEY ADD A RCS OBJECTIVE (mainly driven by a possible customer : UAE, if I remember well).
This is why the Rafale D (D like Discreet, which was the name of the programm) has the common shapes of Rafale A, but in reality all is different.

France has even at those time all the tools to do so.

 

[BON PLAN]

All the nice BS abt Spectra, and yet the libyan Radars can track rafale when it uses spectra.,. it should be secret, unfortunately the Spectra BS of Rafale is similar to F-117 stealth till someone shoots one down and proves it otherwise

Do you REALLY think Lybia was a threat for french air force?
Do you really think French force have to use ALL their goodies to win? We only use nearly 40 fighters, and not all at the same time, to win. So Spectra was on standby, only on passive mod.
Spectra is one of the treasure of Rafale. We don't give all the keys to the first third world airforce, with strong links with russia....

 

[BON PLAN]

Gaddafi was very sure that the Western power wanted to scare him so that he complies, like before, after all his sons were educated in the west and had contacts, The French and other countries had no interest to topple Gaddafi, so his reasoning was that the UN (and the west behind it) only wanted to enforce matters so that Libyan planes and tanks are not used to target civilians and he complied, and then suddenly these western planes in order to enforce the UN charter started shooting at any Libyan defence asset. This is how it went down

Lybia has a lot of SAM.... no casualties in our force, and we smashed them.

 

[Scarface]

It seems like you also misunderstood my answer. Meteor of France was supposed to be 1W DL but it was uneconomical so decided against it and sticked to 2W DL. Rafale is upgraded to F3-R standard to be compatible with meteor with its full capabilities. These upgrades include rafale's L-16 to a more capable DL. Meteor integrated Rafales in its full confuguration will be deliveted to French AF and navy in 2018. Therefore there is no question of limitations as far as meteor is concerned. French AF and navy are not fools to accept rafale or meteor with limitation. Being custum made for custemer requirements Indian version of Rafale will have the same capabilities.

You see , none of this was in your first reply to me so it makes sense for me to not be able to understand your answer ,and even though I have accepted these reasons at face value from you and @Armand2REP because they seem logical it would be more convincing if this theory was backed up by any sources

 

[Armand2REP]

You see , none of this was in your first reply to me so it makes sense for me to not be able to understand your answer ,and even though I have accepted these reasons at face value from you and @Armand2REP because they seem logical it would be more convincing if this theory was backed up by any sources

There is nothing directly related to Meteor on this subject but as it uses the same data link as Mica some references to Mica-NG could make this more apparent.

--------------------------------------------------------------
Second, the MICA missile (Missile d’Interception et de Combat Aérien or interception and aerial combat missile). This missile has both IR and EM capabilities, and a unique IR Beyond Visual Range (BVR) capabilities which the Sidewinder 9X Blk2 is only trying to match. Its relatively small size and thrust vectoring make it a very agile missile, with a range of 500m to 65+ Km. It is a “fire and forget” missile with LOAL (Lock After Launch) and can be shot “over the shoulder” (rearwards). In 2010, MBDA stated a remarkable 93% successful shots out of 240 trials. An over the shoulder fire of MICA on a target illuminated by a second Rafale (third party targeting) was demonstrated in 2007. MBDA is presently developing a Mica “NG” missile which, using the same body, that will offer more range, a dual boost engine dramatically increasing NEZ and even more precise seekers. It should also bring a new datalink capability allowing a buddy plane to guide the missile independently from the shooting plane (presently it is needed to guide the missile via the shooting plane datalink)

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/national/defence-watch/the-rafale-as-canadas-next-fighter-part-2

 

[lcafanboy]

From IDF PARIKRAMA


"SOURCE BASED NEWS

• Following the ongoing tussle for more planes of IAF choice in TE and MOD choice of SE, a midway has been arrived as of now.
• The Plan for Rafale Bases as per the meeting is as below
  • IAF has requested the a total of 7 bases for Rafale (3 West facing, 2 East , 2 South/Central for swing role.)
  • MOD has pruned it down to 5 bases for Rafale (3 West facing with at least one located deeper towards south/central and 2 East facing)
  • The Original 7 bases has a scope to house a total of 14 sqds (~250+) but the same has been now pruned to first filling each base with 1 sqd and then supplementing them with the 2nd sqd.
  • Certain bases may house additional sqds subject to space availability.
  • This has pruned the plan to 10-12 sqds.
  • First 3 bases will be via the off the shelf orders
  • Next 2 via MII with rest of the jets being assembled and components produced in DRAL
• In Return MOD has convinced IAF for the following
  • A total of 6 sqds to begin with for SE
  • Additional scope of 2+1 sqds - 3 more after delivery review of 3-4 squads.
  • Primarily based for Forward bases in Western Sector and will free up MKI to move much deeper
  • Out of 6-9 squads, 1 squad is being explored for direct import as well.
• Also IAF and MOD discussed for LCA MK1A
  • MOD also made categorically clear that post MK1A 1 squadron handover, a fresh order of 3-4 more squadrons ( 60-80) will be placed as well.
  • IAF has clearly said they look at Kaveri with Safran core for maximum LCAs and wants to pursue it further
  • Further MOD/GOI and IAF both have been soft on HAL in last 3 years and now want to see if HAL can deliver the present new promises.
  • The new milestones/reviews /priority points are
    • Achieving FOC soon.
    • Showing good progress on MK1A project.
    • Increasing the production speed. to 16/year and further ensuring local ecosystem in place for 24/year rate achievement
    • Addressing issues in the presently delivered aircrafts and rectifying the mistakes.
    • Changing the way issues raised has been addressed in the past with more professional approach and time-bound SLAs adherence
• About FGFA and super MKI,
  • The timeline for fresh review and scope is now considered only after Super Upgrade line installation and commencement of batch updation of MKIs
  • After the upgradation of approx 5-6 squadrons from Russia and HAL, FGFA production is envisioned.
  • A scope of 2-2.5 more squadrons at Super MKI configuration is also proposed with planes getting French and Israeli systems at HAL post delivery off the shelf as well.
  • This small batch is proposed to replace very old airframes which may not get selected for Super upgrade and will be relegated to training purposes only "

 

[Armand2REP]

Very good news for Rafale, Tejas and Super 30. Very bad news for F-16 or Gripen, the single engine competition wasn't even mentioned. Su-57 is really pushed down the road, like IAF is taking a wait and see approach on if the Russians can solve the 43 technical deficiencies.

From IDF PARIKRAMA


"SOURCE BASED NEWS

• Following the ongoing tussle for more planes of IAF choice in TE and MOD choice of SE, a midway has been arrived as of now.
• The Plan for Rafale Bases as per the meeting is as below
  • IAF has requested the a total of 7 bases for Rafale (3 West facing, 2 East , 2 South/Central for swing role.)
  • MOD has pruned it down to 5 bases for Rafale (3 West facing with at least one located deeper towards south/central and 2 East facing)
  • The Original 7 bases has a scope to house a total of 14 sqds (~250+) but the same has been now pruned to first filling each base with 1 sqd and then supplementing them with the 2nd sqd.
  • Certain bases may house additional sqds subject to space availability.
  • This has pruned the plan to 10-12 sqds.
  • First 3 bases will be via the off the shelf orders
  • Next 2 via MII with rest of the jets being assembled and components produced in DRAL
• In Return MOD has convinced IAF for the following
  • A total of 6 sqds to begin with for SE
  • Additional scope of 2+1 sqds - 3 more after delivery review of 3-4 squads.
  • Primarily based for Forward bases in Western Sector and will free up MKI to move much deeper
  • Out of 6-9 squads, 1 squad is being explored for direct import as well.
• Also IAF and MOD discussed for LCA MK1A
  • MOD also made categorically clear that post MK1A 1 squadron handover, a fresh order of 3-4 more squadrons ( 60-80) will be placed as well.
  • IAF has clearly said they look at Kaveri with Safran core for maximum LCAs and wants to pursue it further
  • Further MOD/GOI and IAF both have been soft on HAL in last 3 years and now want to see if HAL can deliver the present new promises.
  • The new milestones/reviews /priority points are
    • Achieving FOC soon.
    • Showing good progress on MK1A project.
    • Increasing the production speed. to 16/year and further ensuring local ecosystem in place for 24/year rate achievement
    • Addressing issues in the presently delivered aircrafts and rectifying the mistakes.
    • Changing the way issues raised has been addressed in the past with more professional approach and time-bound SLAs adherence
• About FGFA and super MKI,
  • The timeline for fresh review and scope is now considered only after Super Upgrade line installation and commencement of batch updation of MKIs
  • After the upgradation of approx 5-6 squadrons from Russia and HAL, FGFA production is envisioned.
  • A scope of 2-2.5 more squadrons at Super MKI configuration is also proposed with planes getting French and Israeli systems at HAL post delivery off the shelf as well.
  • This small batch is proposed to replace very old airframes which may not get selected for Super upgrade and will be relegated to training purposes only "

 

[BON PLAN]

Very good news for Rafale, Tejas and Super 30. Very bad news for F-16 or Gripen, the single engine competition wasn't even mentioned. Su-57 is really pushed down the road, like IAF is taking a wait and see approach on if the Russians can solve the 43 technical deficiencies.

unfortunately, you're wrong :

In Return MOD has convinced IAF for the following

• A total of 6 sqds to begin with for SE
• Additional scope of 2+1 sqds - 3 more after delivery review of 3-4 squads.
• Primarily based for Forward bases in Western Sector and will free up MKI to move much deeper
• Out of 6-9 squads, 1 squad is being explored for direct import as well.

 

[A chauhan]

So... what is the current status ? when will we start getting Rafales ?

 

[BON PLAN]

So... what is the current status ? when will we start getting Rafales ?

2019. Officialy near october. Unoficially maybe in the fiirst quarter, to pleased indian side.

 

[Armand2REP]

unfortunately, you're wrong :

In Return MOD has convinced IAF for the following

• A total of 6 sqds to begin with for SE
• Additional scope of 2+1 sqds - 3 more after delivery review of 3-4 squads.
• Primarily based for Forward bases in Western Sector and will free up MKI to move much deeper
• Out of 6-9 squads, 1 squad is being explored for direct import as well.

Am I? I am not so sure with Trump's signature needed to meet ToT on both offers once he sees how much India expects to get.

 

[BON PLAN]

Am I? I am not so sure with Trump's signature needed to meet ToT on both offers once he sees how much India expects to get.

It seems to be the MOD choice.
But SE don't mean sure it is F16.... (but politically it would be better than Gripen).

 

[BON PLAN]

A VERY INTERESTING NEWS :

Bahrein opt for F16 bk70.
http://psk.blog.24heures.ch/archive/2017/09/12/des-f-16-viper-pour-bahrein-864329.html

Unit cost is more than 140 $million..... without base accomodation, probably with only a small weapon package and few support as Bahrein already is a F16 user.

affordable, you say affordable ?

for memory a dry Rafale cost nearly 92 € million, ie 110 $ million.

 

[Armand2REP]

A VERY INTERESTING NEWS :

Bahrein opt for F16 bk70.
http://psk.blog.24heures.ch/archive/2017/09/12/des-f-16-viper-pour-bahrein-864329.html

Unit cost is more than 140 $million..... without base accomodation, probably with only a small weapon package and few support as Bahrein already is a F16 user.

affordable, you say affordable ?

for memory a dry Rafale cost nearly 92 € million, ie 110 $ million.

They might as well buy the F-35 at that price.

 

[Pandora]

Lol I got blocked by Anantha krishna of tarmak 007 blog.I trolled him hard on twiiter.Chutiya saala, Gauri lankesh ki vakalat kar raha tha.Latly he is less into defence reporting more of people welfare agent.He was running a campaign of #gurukalam and trying taking the spotlight of late Mr kalam memorial inaugurated by Modi.

 

[Steven Rogers]

Lol I got blocked by Anantha krishna of tarmak 007 blog.I trolled him hard on twiiter.Chutiya saala, Gauri lankesh ki vakalat kar raha tha.Latly he is less into defence reporting more of people welfare agent.He was running a campaign of #gurukalam and trying taking the spotlight of late Mr kalam memorial inaugurated by Modi.

Irrelevant reply to this thread, kindly avoid this

 

[Pandora]

Irrelevant reply to this thread, kindly avoid this

Shut up................,.........You not even crossed 20 posts and here you teaching a person who is a member since 2010.