Know Your 'Rafale'

[TPFscopes]

few pics of First Dassault RAFALE-A with Serial Number A001

 

[F-14B]

sorry for the OT but here is the father of the Dassault Rafale the Mirage 4000

http://www.wallpaperup.com/453275/a...rench_jet_Military_mirage-4000_prototype.html

 

[Armand2REP]

Sukhoi’s FGFA prototype, which is expected to make its first flight within weeks, is a true stealth aircraft, almost invisible to enemy radar. According to a defence ministry official, “It is an amazing looking aircraft. It has a Radar Cross Section (RCS) of just 0.5 square metre as compared to the Su-30MKI’s RCS of about 20 square metres.”

http://www.business-standard.com/ar...n-next-generation-fighter-110010500074_1.html

MoD officials say it is 20, that makes it 20. There was never an RCS reduction programme for it like the Su-35.

Su-30 MKI suddenly became 20 ? That should confirm the inflation in France,.
The notabile sources put RCS of Su-30 MKI from 4-10 m^2 depending on source and this RCS is all aspect RCS,
Rafales RCS is frontal RCS and not all aspect RCS.

 

[airtel]

MoD officials say it is 20, that makes it 20. There was never an RCS reduction programme for it like the Su-35.

Who said that ? Some unnamed official ??
And this article is written by Ajay shukla .

5 years ago it was 25

Sukhoi 30mki should not be compared with rafale... It should be compared with F15.

Source =http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/stealth-aircraft-rcs.htm

 

[Vijyes]

Who said that ? Some unnamed official ??
And this article is written by Ajay shukla .

5 years ago it was 25

View attachment 19764


Sukhoi 30mki should not be compared with rafale... It should be compared with F15.

Source =http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/stealth-aircraft-rcs.htm

View attachment 19765

The total area of an automobile is far less than 100m2 even if all 6 directions area including top and bottom is added. Hiw can it have RCS of 100m2?

 

[Kchontha]

The three most visible and easy to answer differences between Rafale and su57 are
1. Rafale has a protruding IFR probe while su57 has a retractable one.
2. Su57 has a body comformal antenna while rafale has a pointed one.
3. Rafale hasn't an internal weapon bay while su57 has.
You can also point out other point of dissimilarities and similarities. Enjoy it.

 

[airtel]

The three most visible and easy to answer differences between Rafale and su57 are
1. Rafale has a protruding IFR probe while su57 has a retractable one.
2. Su57 has a body comformal antenna while rafale has a pointed one.
3. Rafale hasn't an internal weapon bay while su57 has.
You can also point out other point of dissimilarities and similarities. Enjoy it.

There are more than 1000 differences between these two jets both are from different generations and different class..... Why are you comparing them? Rafale is comparable to typhoon, gripen, F18 and F16

 

[Armand2REP]

And I was like... let me find something without Ajay's name on it and then I was like... here you go.

Military journalist Dmitriy Litovkin, writing in Izvestya, stated that the PAK T-50’s RCS “will be equal to 0.5 square meters, for the Su-30 MKI it is 20 square meters.”

An Indian military publication, Force Online, said the Indian version of the PAK FA “will reportedly have a RCS of 0.5 square meters ... By comparison, the Su-30MKI [the Indian version of the Su-30] has a RCS of approximately 20 square metres, while Lockheed Martin’s F/A-22 Raptor has the RCS of a small bird or a bumble bee at between 0.001 and 0.01 square metres.”

http://www.businessinsider.com/heres-how-the-f-35-really-stacks-up-against-russias-su-35-2015-11

 

[airtel]

And I was like... let me find something without Ajay's name on it and then I was like... here you go.

Even if it is 1000 it does not matter because we already have 230+ sukhois.
And yes please stop comparing rafale with sukhoi 30 mki.

Mki is comparable to F15 ..... And rafale is comparable to typhoon and F18.

 

[Kchontha]

There are more than 1000 differences between these two jets both are from different generations and different class..... Why are you comparing them? Rafale is comparable to typhoon, gripen, F18 and F16

Because it gives me pleasure just like to other by comparing su30 and Rafale......blah blah to blah blah etc.

 

[Armand2REP]

Because it gives me pleasure just like to other by comparing su30 and Rafale......blah blah to blah blah etc.

No one is saying MKI can't fight, it just isn't survivable in high threat environments and trying to convert it into a strike aircraft is folly. That is why Rafale needs to be ordered in greater numbers. It is the strike aircraft IAF urgently needs.

 

[IndianHawk]

If the chart above posted by @airtel is accurate than rafale and su30 both are equal via the lens of RCS. Low rcs is useless unless it's as low as a bird.
On that measure only f35 ,f22, f117 are survivable. Because above the bird rcs level a plane will be clearly marked out radar. Rafale would look smaller than su30 but it will still stand out as something much bigger than all the birds in the area.

So what is the point in the end.

 

[Armand2REP]

If an automobile had an RCS of 100m^2 it would be as big as a 747. I dare say someone pulled those numbers out of their a$$.

If the chart above posted by @airtel is accurate than rafale and su30 both are equal via the lens of RCS. Low rcs is useless unless it's as low as a bird.
On that measure only f35 ,f22, f117 are survivable. Because above the bird rcs level a plane will be clearly marked out radar. Rafale would look smaller than su30 but it will still stand out as something much bigger than all the birds in the area.

So what is the point in the end.

 

[Kchontha]

No one is saying MKI can't fight, it just isn't survivable in high threat environments and trying to convert it into a strike aircraft is folly. That is why Rafale needs to be ordered in greater numbers. It is the strike aircraft IAF urgently needs.

IAF has gone net centric a long time back and its combat jet will interoperate along with other aircrafts such as awacs/AEW&CS in high threat environments. Besides it's integrated with Brahmos ALCM. It's a fearsome and lethal combination. It will create havoc in the enemy camp.
Nowadays most of the intelligent airforces of the world do not import large amount of expensive fourth generation combat jets because they will be facing obsolescence soon.

 

[TPFscopes]

MoD officials say it is 20, that makes it 20. There was never an RCS reduction programme for it like the Su-35.

It is too much unfair when You are comparing Frontal RCS of Rafale with Side RCS of Su-30MKI.

frontal RCS of Su-30MKI is 4-5 m^2

 

[Vijyes]

IAF has gone net centric a long time back and its combat jet will interoperate along with other aircrafts such as awacs/AEW&CS in high threat environments. Besides it's integrated with Brahmos ALCM. It's a fearsome and lethal combination. It will create havoc in the enemy camp.
Nowadays most of the intelligent airforces of the world do not import large amount of expensive fourth generation combat jets because they will be facing obsolescence soon.

Is Brahmos ALCM really ready? I thought it was yet to be finalised. 4th generation will never get old,especially 4.5 generation. 5th generation planes have high maintenance, high operating cost, lower range per unit fuel, lower payload (due to internal weapons), chances of stealth waning off if the coating of RAM wears off in first few sorties due to air friction. 5th generation has many defects and hence 4th and 4.5 generation planes will always be in demand.

It is too much unfair when You are comparing Frontal RCS of Rafale with Side RCS of Su-30MKI.

frontal RCS of Su-30MKI is 4-5 m^2

What do you mean by frontal RCS? When a plane flies on the air, what is first visible is the bottom of the plane, isn't it? How is it possible to look in front of a plane moving at 10000 feet? Unless we are speaking of AEWACS detection where the AEWACS plane is flying at the same height as the incoming plane

 

[airtel]

If an automobile had an RCS of 100m^2 it would be as big as a 747. I dare say someone pulled those numbers out of their a$$.

The total area of an automobile is far less than 100m2 even if all 6 directions area including top and bottom is added. Hiw can it have RCS of 100m2?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radar_cross-section

http://www.radartutorial.eu/01.basics/Radar Cross Section.en.html

IEEE is a Reliable source .

.

 

[Vijyes]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radar_cross-section

View attachment 19775

http://www.radartutorial.eu/01.basics/Radar Cross Section.en.html

IEEE is a Reliable source .

.

Unless there is a material that will magnify the size, maximum RCS can't increase the actual size. It may decrease depending on the material but not increase

 

[airtel]

Unless there is a material that will magnify the size, maximum RCS can't increase the actual size. It may decrease depending on the material but not increase

At least read the Radar basics >> http://www.radartutorial.eu/01.basics/Radar Cross Section.en.html



Nobody is Increasing the Size .

The Radar transmits an radar beam & it's Receiver receives reflections of that beam from nearby objects.

Because of Material & Shape Automobiles will reflect More Waves as compare to a Fighter Jet (which is designed to reduce such reflection ) .

 

[smestarz]

Are you serious? It isnt survivable in high threat environment? Please do share how you know this? Only because Su-30 MKI does not have MAWS? Do remember that in exercise in India Rafale was beaten hands down by Indian Su-30 MKI in WVR exercises, for BVR the Indian missiles were allowed to be simulated for the shorter range than the actual ones. So how exactly would Rafale be suvivable and Su-30 MKI not?

Do remember a fact that when the Russians entered Syria with Su-30 SM which are the Russian equivalent of Su-30 MKI, the French ensured that the Rafale kept out of the way, I mean just diverted their area of operations.

Effectivity of Russian weapons, and for that we take the Syrian conflict, more than a year the French were conducting strikes in Syria, even to take revenge for Paris attacks, but they were not able to have any breaktrhough, as if the French air force was conducting token strikes against IS using their formidable Rafale, but within 6 months of Russia entering the fray, the situation in Syria changed so much so that with a 6 months IS was losing material, men and area that it occupied,. This is a classic example where both the French plane Rafale and the Russian planes were involved.

Lastly try not to come with BS of Strike plane., Let us analyse something, since Rafale is an MRCA and can handle strike better, that should mean that each time Su-30 MKI meets Rafale the Rafale would be dead duck correct?

With the new developments in A2G missiles any capable plane can be a strike plane, it has to be fitted with the right avionics, the days of getting close and personal with the target are gone and that is what the Stand off missile brings. If Rafale is so excellent, why did France have to spend so much money for SCALP? They could have better used that money in developing better bombs as Rafale can deliver them being a Strike plane. no?

The question should be if the existing aircraft in IAF handle deep strikes? Su-30 MKI and MiG-29 UPG both can and that too with excellence. The only thing rafale brings is its overated SPECTRA which only the French pilots claim to be excellent. despite using SPECTRA, Syrian, Russian and Libyan radars were able to track French planes.

So what IAF needs urgently is 4 squadrons of Su-57 MKI and maybe more than 400 Tejas Mk 1A and Mk2 to make up the numbers needed for CAPs

No one is saying MKI can't fight, it just isn't survivable in high threat environments and trying to convert it into a strike aircraft is folly. That is why Rafale needs to be ordered in greater numbers. It is the strike aircraft IAF urgently needs.