Know Your 'Rafale'

[smestarz]

Is that a rhetorical question?
That was an Su-24 Fencer introduced in 1974 and that type is used as Bomber, or strike aircraft, very much similar to F-111 . Further the Russians believed that since the Russians were fighting the ISIS, Turkey would just try to ensure its territorial integrity, and not interfere. But when the Turkish Air force F-16 shot down the Su-24 without warning, then Russians brought their Su-30 SM to ensure air superiority in their operating area. No sooner the Russians did that, the Turkish Air force and the French air force, both avoided being close to Syrian border. Turkish airforce was flying 100 kms inside their border and not any closer since Su-30 were flying and the French air force, they simply changed their route and just stayed within Iraq borders.
Any more clarifications needed?

What type was the Russian plane the Turks shot down?

 

[SajeevJino]

Is that a rhetorical question?
That was an Su-24 Fencer introduced in 1974 and that type is used as Bomber, or strike aircraft, very much similar to F-111 . Further the Russians believed that since the Russians were fighting the ISIS, Turkey would just try to ensure its territorial integrity, and not interfere. But when the Turkish Air force F-16 shot down the Su-24 without warning, then Russians brought their Su-30 SM to ensure air superiority in their operating area. No sooner the Russians did that, the Turkish Air force and the French air force, both avoided being close to Syrian border. Turkish airforce was flying 100 kms inside their border and not any closer since Su-30 were flying and the French air force, they simply changed their route and just stayed within Iraq borders.
Any more clarifications needed?

you filled this kinda shit all over the forum isn't ... hell the forum almost hijacked by idiots like you

But when the Turkish Air force F-16 shot down the Su-24 without warning,

Turkish warned multiple times before attacking the Su 24, The SyAAF think no one can touch their airforce and Turkey put some fire on their ass.

then Russians brought their Su-30 SM to ensure air superiority in their operating area. No sooner the Russians did that, the Turkish Air force and the French air force, both avoided being close to Syrian border. Turkish airforce was flying 100 kms inside their border and not any closer since Su-30 were flying and the French air force, they simply changed their route and just stayed within Iraq borders.

100 km inside of Turkish border fearing the Russian Su 30 SM ..err

Idiot have you ever heard Al Bab Offensive

Any more clarifications needed?

If you don't know something ..please don't comment it

 

[Dharmapalas]

Is that a rhetorical question?
That was an Su-24 Fencer introduced in 1974 and that type is used as Bomber, or strike aircraft, very much similar to F-111 . Further the Russians believed that since the Russians were fighting the ISIS, Turkey would just try to ensure its territorial integrity, and not interfere. But when the Turkish Air force F-16 shot down the Su-24 without warning, then Russians brought their Su-30 SM to ensure air superiority in their operating area. No sooner the Russians did that, the Turkish Air force and the French air force, both avoided being close to Syrian border. Turkish airforce was flying 100 kms inside their border and not any closer since Su-30 were flying and the French air force, they simply changed their route and just stayed within Iraq borders.
Any more clarifications needed?

Nah, seems to be the same plane that the USA just shot down (Syrian). I was wondering.

Edit: actually the Syrian plane was an SU-22.

 

[smestarz]

Su-22 Fitter is a version of Su-17, introduced in early 70s and production stopped maybe in early 90s.
It is a varialble geometry plane Swing wing plane like Su-24 but that and that its produced by Sukhoi corporation are few of the common things,

Su-22 is single seater, single engined fighter bomber with tactical implementation, which is in a way similar to MiG-23 / 27. This is plane with single engine designed for Strikes and ground attack. But at a limited range and of tactical use.

On other hand Su-24 Fencer is a twin engined, Twin seater strategic strike/Bomber. This plane is very much similar to American F-111 and MRCA Tornado. in their design overlook, range and uses.

Su-22 and Su-24 are both old aircraft no longer in production and being replaced by Su-34 at least for Russian Air force. I do not think the Americans would opt to shoot down a RUSSIAN plane, If its a syrian plane its a different ball game altogether. Su-22 vs F/A-18, I dont expect Su-22 to be able to win, no chance, You are looking at early 4th gen radar and avionics vs latest AESA radar and AIM-120D ...

Further planes like Su-22 with fully swept back wings can fly fast, but not faster than AIM 120D and these aircraft were not designed to be maneuverable or to dog fight. In case of air combat, these were to hit and run.

Nah, seems to be the same plane that the USA just shot down (Syrian). I was wondering.

Edit: actually the Syrian plane was an SU-22.

 

[SajeevJino]

YES, I know about Al Bab offensive, by the way, how many air craft from turkey were involved?
Please try to follow the discussion, if you cannot, you are free not to poke your nose,

Anyhow, the Turkish and Russians turned on the same side after the incident happens .,.

well even the Russian propaganda machine too reported the Turkish air strikes in Al bab, well I don't have the exact TuAF Sorties conducted in Support of Euphrates Shield

https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/201702051050367251-turkey-syria-al-bab-daesh/

 

[SajeevJino]

There are quite a lot of number of different sources claiming things, and you one of the many,
Some do claim them to going to be used for SFC,

well in very very rare case only, I don't think we will keep this planes only for nuke roles, Its a bad idea, Since Rafale perform awesome ground support roles, IAF will not restrict its performance

By the way, the Mirage is good plane, but since its a good plane does not mean the next one has to be good too,

F-22 was excellent, what about F-35 ? Get the point?

So you mean Mirage is better than Rafale ,,,,well a easy comparison is good to show up ,,,

The F 22 and F 35 game is completely different F 35 is not a successor of F 22,

Now, any plane that can perform well, and armed with PGM and Litening pod could perform the missions (read MiG-29) but IAF top brass had a very stupid doctrine where they purchased MiG-29 purely for Air superiority.

Nope can't be..a PGM and Targetting pod is enough means , a civilian plane also good enough to conduct such ground attack mission

The MiG 29 was bought as Air superiority, well all the Russian fighter jets are primarily for Air roles only, very very less characteristics for ground attack role, Russian mechanism is far away from conducting Precision ground attack missions

Very same as IAF was found with wet pants when it realised that Jagaur cannot be used in Kargil and the other plane that they could use, did not have PGMS (read Mirage 2000) and hence using Israeli help, things were modified to allow Mirage 2000 to use PGM.

we have to agree that we are not aware of the performance of Laser guided munitions, yet think again our Jags are modified to conduct PGM and LGB operations ....just assume the IAF stocks of PGM and LGB ...

Till OFB producing the dumb free fall bombs only ... and that 100+ CBU 105 munitions bought from US

Thus IAF top brass very incompetent and lack of vision, One example,, ACM Tyagi,. remember the chap?

:biggrin2::biggrin2:

There is no doubt Rafale is a good plane, but then its way to expensive. Price vs performance ratio is not in favour of Rafale,.

you can't get a good fighter on that performance ...Cheap items and bad products are available in Russia only, well IAF don't want more from there

Rafale is a very overpriced plane which even its own country is finding difficulty in purchasing. due to price.All that you described about Rafale are try for Su-30 MKI and Su-34.. Did you read about these planes or still your head is somewhere deep in France?

I don't think French find difficulties ...look at the export orders ...

Seems you are very much used to doing that to french ass, keep it up.. Unlike you, I do analysis and not licking, sorry, thats your forte not mine.

you're welcome

 

[WolfPack86]

Just in: @RelianceGroup & @thalesgroup form 51-49 JV to leverage Rafale offsets to integrate and maintain Radar and EW sensors. #PAS17
https://twitter.com/livefist?lang=en

 

[Tarun Kumar]

Now this is what I call smart move. This is Dassault signal to GOI and GOI should make a final offer- take USD 20bn and give us 120-150 rafales. All this circus around F16 will end

 

[TPFscopes]

Nah, seems to be the same plane that the USA just shot down (Syrian). I was wondering.

Edit: actually the Syrian plane was an SU-22.

The jet which was shot down by Turks was Su-24M
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34912581

 

[Butter Chicken]

Details about Rafale offsets from Livefist

 

[Sam Biswas]

Now this is what I call smart move. This is Dassault signal to GOI and GOI should make a final offer- take USD 20bn and give us 120-150 rafales. All this circus around F16 will end

Then Dassault will come up with a counter offer of $40 billion for 120-150 jets. With that kind of money, India should be able to buy Dassault. Bottom line is India has very little or no good choice other than F-16 from L&M.

 

[nongaddarliberal]

Why don't we keep buying batches of 36 rafales every 3 years? The cost of this lot was 8.4 Billion. By 2030, we can have over 126 rafales for the annual cost of 2.5 billion a year.

 

[BON PLAN]

Why don't we keep buying batches of 36 rafales every 3 years? The cost of this lot was 8.4 Billion. By 2030, we can have over 126 rafales for the annual cost of 2.5 billion a year.

The cost of 8.4 billion includes two base accomodation (2 base are enough for 72+ planes), initial training of pilots and technicians and indigenization. These fix costs are paid by the first batch. Next batch will be less costier.

 

[BON PLAN]

Then Dassault will come up with a counter offer of $40 billion for 120-150 jets. With that kind of money, India should be able to buy Dassault. Bottom line is India has very little or no good choice other than F-16 from L&M.

Dassault is a private company, but the stocks on the market are low. You can't buy it ! (only few percent are on the stock market)

 

[BON PLAN]

c) F/A-18 is same and thus any F/A-18 with say Air force can take off and land from Carrier, These are known facts. Rafale C cannot take off and land from Carrier.

It's just because Boeing made only two planes : a single seat and a dual one, all made for carrier (ie heavier because of the stronger langing gear).
Dassault made 3 planes : a single seat "air", a dual seat "air" and a naval single seater. You want a plane able to acccomodate a carrier and a air base? take the M variant. Just 600kg heavier than C variant.

 

[BON PLAN]

ABOUT GRIPEN E and F16 : some news from a well informed forumer of another forum :

"In one of the presentations by Saab to MOD, Saab folks said Gripen E can take off from Assam, can deliver mission ordinances to Pakistan and then fly back and will require mid air refueling only around Bagdogra.

IAF official present there laughed and said are you sure? Saab folks said its our estimation and based on conditions, altitude, payload and air it might get decreased...

End Result - IAF report says Mission Range and Ferry range - Inconclusive

Thats what happens when you claim BS figure out of the blue..

And its not limited to Saab alone..

LM claimed F6 can do more range then MKI with one just one time refuelling at mission loads pretty much top heavy. Their figure of almost 3800 kms from F16 vs 3000 kms fro MKI. Again LM was grilled hard and finally dedicated mission range came down to 650-800 kms and extended range with refuelling around 1000-1100 kms under mission loads and conditions...

and BTW both fighters are strict no no for hi altitude and near J&K, Tibet and Arunachal Theater..

In those places, officially based on Leh test results on record IAF has stated LCA to have better performance numbers..

Bottomline_ Dont trust LM and Saab marketing... Let IAF use and prove whats the real mission ranges and whether they fit the so called swing role doctrine.. as of now it does not of course,, and IAF is not confident for some foreseeable future as well"

http://*****************/threads/f1...-and-possibilities.56222/page-130#post-573294

 

[BON PLAN]

A SH18 fired a AIM9X on a Syrian Su22. Missile didn't hit the target due to flares.

Incredible !!! the last US infra red missile missing his target because of 30 years old flares technology....

Seemed US are loosing their skill....

 

[Flame Thrower]

A SH18 fired a AIM9X on a Syrian Su22. Missile didn't hit the target due to flares.

Incredible !!! the last US infra red missile missing his target because of 30 years old flares technology....

Seemed US are loosing their skill....

Can you please provide the source

 

[gadeshi]

A SH18 fired a AIM9X on a Syrian Su22. Missile didn't hit the target due to flares.

Incredible !!! the last US infra red missile missing his target because of 30 years old flares technology....

Seemed US are loosing their skill....

Yeah, F/A-18E has fired 2 AIM-9X to hit limited maneuverable and heavily loaded Su-22M-4
Each AIM-9X unit costs about $2,2 Millions!!!
For a fucking SRAAM!!!

Отправлено с моего XT1080 через Tapatalk

 

[asianobserve]

Yeah, F/A-18E has fired 2 AIM-9X to hit limited maneuverable and heavily loaded Su-22M-4
Each AIM-9X unit costs about $2,2 Millions!!!
For a fucking SRAAM!!!

Отправлено с моего XT1080 через Tapatalk

It appeared that Raytheon did not include the flare signature of 40-year old Soviet era flares in the software of AIM 9x. If there is a deficiency there then certainly there will be softwares updates to AIM 9x.

I guess that Syrian pilot was lucky. But the same cannot be said of Lieutenant Colonel Oleg Anatolyevich Peshkov (may his soul rest in peace) of the Russian Air Force who was shot down by a Turkish fired AIM 9x. The flares in his newer Su24M jet certainly was in the AIM 9x program.