Know Your 'Rafale'

[smestarz]

Wow, totally misguided, hahaha

More than 300 Rafales will come whether you like it or not or whether you believe it or not. IAF total fighter requirement is around 550.

We're already 10 sq short of sanctioned strength of 42 plus 6sq of mig 21, 3sq of Jaguars plus around 100 Mig 27s will be retired by 2022 to 2025. Now add all up plus govt. is mulling sanctioned strength of IAF to 45 squadron.

Navy's immediate needs are 80 Rafales for IAC-1 and even Vikramaditya aircraft carriers plus we will be making IAC-1 sister ship in fast track mode by 2025 to make 3 carrier fleet by 2027 Vishal will come post 2035 only.

Add to the fact the IAF will vacate Andaman and Naval air force will take care of it. Mig 29Ks will be used for land based operations only.

LCA with all the goodies plus cost of manufacturing plant has shot up to around $50 million fly away cost plus imported stuff consumes forex in LCA too. Rafale fly away cost is $85 million with all the goodies and will be manufactured in India at Nagpur booosting local economy.

FGFA is still 10yrs away and we don't know final product and what will be Russia's attitude towards India.

Rafale will bring Ancilliary companies which will speed up AMCA which will come only by 2035 (till then we do need air force).

 

[MrPresident]

More than 300 Rafales will come whether you like it or not or whether you believe it or not. IAF total fighter requirement is around 550.

We're already 10 sq short of sanctioned strength of 42 plus 6sq of mig 21, 3sq of Jaguars plus around 100 Mig 27s will be retired by 2022 to 2025. Now add all up plus govt. is mulling sanctioned strength of IAF to 45 squadron.

Navy's immediate needs are 80 Rafales for IAC-1 and even Vikramaditya aircraft carriers plus we will be making IAC-1 sister ship in fast track mode by 2025 to make 3 carrier fleet by 2027 Vishal will come post 2035 only.

Add to the fact the IAF will vacate Andaman and Naval air force will take care of it. Mig 29Ks will be used for land based operations only.

LCA with all the goodies plus cost of manufacturing plant has shot up to around $50 million fly away cost plus imported stuff consumes forex in LCA too. Rafale fly away cost is $85 million with all the goodies and will be manufactured in India at Nagpur booosting local economy.

FGFA is still 10yrs away and we don't know final product and what will be Russia's attitude towards India.

Rafale will bring Ancilliary companies which will speed up AMCA which will come only by 2035 (till then we do need air force).

I like the conviction in your statement, however me and you are no body in the larger picture. Only time will tell how many we will be buying and how many we will be developing. When you compare the prices of the 2 aircraft please keep in mind the maintenance and cost of flying, cost of maintaining a Twin engine fighter will generally be higher than single engine fighter.

By your estimates for 300 Rafale s will cost 10.5 billion more than LCAs this is considering the fact that it will cost $50 Million a pop (Which is unlikely).

 

[MrPresident]

I am not telling anything, I am just stating the fact that MOD and IAF thinking seriously about buying 200+ Rafale behind closed doors. If it were upto me I would buy 10000+ B2 Spirit. LOL.

BTW Russia isn't willing to teach us anything about pak fa. Infact RUSSIA REFUSED INDIAN PILOTS TO FLY PROTOTYPE and that too AFTER PAYING MILLIONS. We have already paid money to learn. How much we have learn? No pilots other than Russian have even touched the plane yet and here you are dreaming about custom modifications (FGFA) and willing to give billions to Russia.

Yes giving money to French is getting results. Our Kaveri programme is revived. We are on our path to have an indigenous engine in few years, All thanks to French. Tell me how much engine tech or FBW tech we got from Russia after giving them billions and billions in defence deals. Why aren't we are sending our scientists to Russia to LEARN jet engines? If Russians don't want to share 4th gen tech what makes you think we will learn 5th gen tech from them.

My friend, fact of the matter is NO ONE will give u the Jet engine tech. It is India which is at fault not to send scientist to Russia to get involved in a fighter design. Screw driver technology is not much of a use which is generally provided as TOT and its the same with Rafale. Untill and unless Indian scientist get involved in the design process, we will get no where and we could have a chance to get involved in at least 20 to 25 % of design with the FGFA.

French has never told us that they will help us with metallurgy, which is one of the area that we are lacking. Tech to manufacture Crystal blade alloys to withstand high temperatures will never be shared with any that is a proprietary knowledge, India should involve private players to develop them.

 

[gadeshi]

Do they have electronic stealth? Saw tooth structures on body, active radar cancellation, distinctive front stealth design, covered engine blades with light S-air ducts, stealthy intakes. Just look at Rafales and compare it with fighters you have mentioned see the design difference.

Actually they have it all, cause it is a key 4.5 gen requirement.

Отправлено с моего XT1080 через Tapatalk

 

[Cutting Edge]

Soon we will see this in Indian skies.

 

[smestarz]

Brutal display yes, the Rafale tries too hard what Su-30 does naturally.

 

[smestarz]

Cobra maneuver ? did not see it perform that.. and yet the heavier Su-30 performs it with ease.
Rolls and turns that the Rafale does in that "brutal" display, even tejas does that gracefully..
LOL guess the French get impressed about their own plane a lot faster than IAF top brass gets impress even after HAL trying to please them for 3 decades,, Wish our air force officers had attitude like the French.

 

[Cutting Edge]

Cobra maneuver ? did not see it perform that.. and yet the heavier Su-30 performs it with ease.
Rolls and turns that the Rafale does in that "brutal" display, even tejas does that gracefully..
LOL guess the French get impressed about their own plane a lot faster than IAF top brass gets impress even after HAL trying to please them for 3 decades,, Wish our air force officers had attitude like the French.

Of course without doing Cobra maneuver a fighter's performance is completely useless. Who cares about useless stuff like rate of climb, short take off, 9G turns, agility, etc. Cobra maneuver is where its at. All aircraft ever made must perform Cobra maneuver to qualify for airshows. If not then western Air shows must pack up their bags and move to Mother Russia.

Forget about buying Rafale because it is a compromised product, after all it can't do the most important task of a fighter jet; "Cobra Maneuver" Forget about avionics, sensors, fusion, radar, etc. Lets buy more Su-30 in 2020, 2030, 2040, 2050,..... and keep buying SU-30 because it can do Cobra maneuver.

 

[smestarz]

Are you born this stupid or did you fall on your head?
Try to first note what I did reply to..
I replied to a video posted as a BRUTAL DISPLAY.. like you said,, how important is that display?
Such displays , Tejas can do with equal grace. and Su-30 MKI out does it,
So next time before replying, please do read the message to what the member has replied to.
If its upto me, I would dump the Rafales and go for Su-35 MKI and with sensors or avionics package from Israel.

Of course without doing Cobra maneuver a fighter's performance is completely useless. Who cares about useless stuff like rate of climb, short take off, 9G turns, agility, etc. Cobra maneuver is where its at. All aircraft ever made must perform Cobra maneuver to qualify for airshows. If not then western Air shows must pack up their bags and move to Mother Russia.

Forget about buying Rafale because it is a compromised product, after all it can't do the most important task of a fighter jet; "Cobra Maneuver" Forget about avionics, sensors, fusion, radar, etc. Lets buy more Su-30 in 2020, 2030, 2040, 2050,..... and keep buying SU-30 because it can do Cobra maneuver.

 

[BON PLAN]

Do they have electronic stealth? Saw tooth structures on body, active radar cancellation, distinctive front stealth design, covered engine blades with light S-air ducts, stealthy intakes. Just look at Rafales and compare it with fighters you have mentioned see the design difference.

A Tata nano and a Ferrari Testarossa all have a motor. But not the same motor.
The swiss eval leaks show that the sensor fusion was not of the same quality among the competitors.

 

[BON PLAN]

You can call it a turkey/ aerodynamic disaster if you want , without a data from flight manual that statement is nothing rather than hot air.Judging from F-35 relaxed KPP and F-16 flight manual ,F-35 is quite similar to F-16 in term of sustained turn rate ,and since it has higher AoA limit , it should get better CL max => better instantaneous turn rate. Subsonic acceleration of F-35A is better than most 4 gen aircraft including Su-35 , F-16.Which mean it will be very good in vertical scissor. Is it the most maneuver aircraft out there ? likely not. But calling it an aerodynamic disaster is simply ignorance.

it should....
it's the main problem of the Fat35 : it only should be. But is not.

 

[BON PLAN]

India Clears First Payment for Rafale Fighter Jets to France

India has cleared the first payment of 15 per cent to seal the deal for 36 Rafale combat aircraft with the French Government.

Sources told India Strategic that the instalment was cleared recently, and as per the contract, the French Government will deliver the first few aircraft within three years, that is sometime in 2019. India has though requested France to speed the delivery to the extent possible.

Industry sources in Paris also said that aircraft manufacturer Dassault had started working with its partners well in advance towards the Indian requirement, particularly as the Indian Air Force had asked for some specific modifications.

Dassault leads the consortium with Safran and Thales doing the engines and electronic systems and suites. In fact, the latter two have higher share each than Dasssault which designs, integrates and markets combat and civil aircraft.
http://defencenews.in/article/India-Clears-First-Payment-for-Rafale-Fighter-Jets-to-France-239710

When I remember few months ago, some saying that India will never ordered Rafale.....

 

[StealthFlanker]

it should....
it's the main problem of the Fat35 : it only should be. But is not.

If you got nothing to support your point rather than repeating FAT35 like a parrot.Why even bothered ?. The ways you desperately trying to gain attention is very cringe

 

[BON PLAN]

If you got nothing to support your point rather than repeating FAT35 like a parrot.Why even bothered ?. The ways you desperately trying to gain attention is very cringe

When a guy who doesn't want to say a word about himself, but criticizes some others with a very impressiv CV (Pic for exemple... engineer of the best french aerospace engineering school plus a master of mathematic and a doctorate of physic and a very impressiv carreer), your critics are like a drop of water on a duck....
It sinks on the ground and we forget it

 

[StealthFlanker]

Cobra maneuver ? did not see it perform that.. and yet the heavier Su-30 performs it with ease.
Rolls and turns that the Rafale does in that "brutal" display, even tejas does that gracefully..
LOL guess the French get impressed about their own plane a lot faster than IAF top brass gets impress even after HAL trying to please them for 3 decades,, Wish our air force officers had attitude like the French.

It safer for aircraft with TVC to perform cobra. But cobra is not really all that useful in dogfight to be honest.But i really hate how uploader speed up the video making the motion very jerky

 

[StealthFlanker]

When a guy who doesn't want to say a word about himself, but criticizes some others with a very impressiv CV (Pic for exemple... engineer of the best french aerospace engineering school plus a master of mathematic and a doctorate of physic and a very impressiv carreer), your critics are like a drop of water on a duck....
It sinks on the ground and we forget it

Still butt hurt because i criticized your idol ?
Let me say it again so it get through your thick skull.
1) I DO NOT GIVE A FUCK WHO Pic claimed to be. If he is wrong then he is wrong period.
2) Unlike Pic , i do not need to appeal to authority so that people will listen to me. People here listen to me because i can always supply manual data to back up what i said ,people may lie but test data dont , and i can actually tell them why stuff behave a certain ways.
3) Seriously, for guys who claimed that he worked for DA, neither you or Pic care about OPSEC whatsoever

 

[BON PLAN]

Still butt hurt because i criticized your idol ?
Let me say it again so it get through your thick skull.
1) I DO NOT GIVE A FUCK WHO Pic claimed to be. If he is wrong then he is wrong period.
2) Unlike Pic , i do not need to appeal to authority so that people will listen to me. People here listen to me because i can always supply manual data to back up what i said , and i can actually tell them why stuff behave a certain ways.
3) Seriously, for guys who claimed that he worked for DA, neither you or Pic care about OSPEC whatsoever

As said previously, and contrary to what you say (or think to know), all employees of a plane manufacturer are not aerodynamical researcher or electronic specialists.

I'm a mechanical engineer.

You are 26. Young, too young. And It is not because you have three hairs in the ass that you must take you for a bear

 

[StealthFlanker]

As said previously, and contrary to what you say (or think to know), all employees of a plane manufacturer are not aerodynamical researcher or electronic specialists.

I'm a mechanical engineer.

You are 26. Young, too young. And It is not because you have three hairs in the ass that you must take you for a bear

For the sake of argument, let say you worked at DA as a mechanical engineer. So you dont really know much about aerodynamic or electronic system. Fine, i have no problem with that, not everyone know everything. However if that the case then why do you even bothered brought up that you worked in DA ?. What purpose would that possibly served other than trying to appeal to authority ?.Or do you want me to rephrase it for you ? . Let say a group of people were discussing about car speed / fuel efficiency...etc .Then one guy said " I worked for Ford before ". So everyone started to ask him questions about how car work and stuff.But to everyone surprise he said he dont know because he only worked there as a receptionist. Wouldn't that be utterly pointless of him to brought up that he worked for Ford ?.

 

[BON PLAN]

For the sake of argument, let say you worked at DA as a mechanical engineer. So you dont really know much about aerodynamic or electronic system. Fine, i have no problem with that, not everyone know everything. However if that the case then why do you even bothered brought up that you worked in DA ?. What purpose would that possibly served other than trying to appeal to authority ?.Or do you want me to rephrase it for you ? . Let say a group of people were discussing about car speed / fuel efficiency...etc .Then one guy said " I worked for Ford before ". So everyone started to ask him questions about how car work and stuff.But to everyone surprise he said he dont know because he only worked there as a receptionist. Wouldn't that be utterly pointless of him to brought up that he worked for Ford ?.

Who said I worked like an engineer at DA? you and only you (as all the young and pretty boys, you answer before listening and reading carrefully ).

I have made a end-of-study stage in a DA factory. I'm a mechanical engineer. I'm a plant manager so far (not in DA). This is the truth. Remember it please.

You are 26. Or you are a pure idiot and have a small working experience of 6/8 years. Or you are highly graduate and your working experience is 2/3 years. In all the case you are not qualified to speak as you do. And giving flight manuals is only a mask of your real incompetence.

Have a good day young boy.

 

[BON PLAN]

the third pic is the Eurofighter !!!!