Know Your 'Rafale'

[Cutting Edge]

300 rafals means no AMCA ..................


also calculate the cost of 300 Rafals ..........

how we will pay for Pak-fa & super sukhoi Upgrades ??

Rafale and AMCA are completely different planes. You are comparing Apples and Oranges

Yes cost of purchasing 300 rafale is enormous but we don't have much options. GOI has long neglected our Air force's operational strength. We need at least 400 fighters in immediate future. Also the payment will be divided over a long period so our budget can manage.

I can't say much about Pak fa and Super Sukhoi but if we follow recent reports about Russian behaviour, it would be stupid for GOI to choose russian option. Even if GOI had earlier made plans about Russian planes, if any common sense prevails in south block I am sure they must be reevaluating it right now.

Even if we go with Pak fa (FGFA), in its current state it will takes at least a decade to be ready (If Russians don't milk us for money). Our need is more urgent.

Right now Rafale seems most likely in near future along with single engine plane like F-16/Gripen, Tejas MK1A and in long term AMCA.

 

[airtel]

Rafale and AMCA are completely different planes. You are comparing Apples and Oranges

Yes cost of purchasing 300 rafale is enormous but we don't have much options. GOI has long neglected our Air force's operational strength. We need at least 400 fighters in immediate future. Also the payment will be divided over a long period so our budget can manage.

I can't say much about Pak fa and Super Sukhoi but if we follow recent reports about Russian behaviour, it would be stupid for GOI to choose russian option. Even if GOI had made plans about Russian planes I am sure they must be reevaluating it right now.

Right now Rafale seems most likely in near future along with single engine plane like F-16/Gripen, Tejas MK1A and in long term AMCA.

we need American technologies which are already developed for F-35 in AMCA , if they need our Help then they should share these technologies with India ......................no Point of Buying so many costly rafals .

 

[Cutting Edge]

we need American technologies which are already developed for F-35 in AMCA , if they need our Help then they should share these technologies with India ......................no Point of Buying so many costly rafals .

I agree but the question is will Americans share their secret F-35 technology with us? Especially now that Trump has become president and he has very protectionist mindset.

French are already helping us with Kaveri Engine which is a major breakthrough in itself. With a large MII order they surely will help us with our future indigenous programme. Also don't forget we already bought 36 Rafale from france so follow on order under MII makes sense.

 

[gadeshi]

Rafale and AMCA are completely different planes. You are comparing Apples and Oranges

Yes cost of purchasing 300 rafale is enormous but we don't have much options. GOI has long neglected our Air force's operational strength. We need at least 400 fighters in immediate future. Also the payment will be divided over a long period so our budget can manage.

I can't say much about Pak fa and Super Sukhoi but if we follow recent reports about Russian behaviour, it would be stupid for GOI to choose russian option. Even if GOI had earlier made plans about Russian planes, if any common sense prevails in south block I am sure they must be reevaluating it right now.

Even if we go with Pak fa (FGFA), in its current state it will takes at least a decade to be ready (If Russians don't milk us for money). Our need is more urgent.

Right now Rafale seems most likely in near future along with single engine plane like F-16/Gripen, Tejas MK1A and in long term AMCA.

AMCA and Rafale are both medium fighters, so they are the same, e. g., for the same niche in AF structure.

Отправлено с моего XT1080 через Tapatalk

 

[airtel]

I agree but the question is will Americans share their secret F-35 technology with us? Especially now that Trump has become president and he has very protectionist mindset.

French are already helping us with Kaveri Engine which is a major breakthrough in itself. With a large MII order they surely will help us with our future indigenous programme. Also don't forget we already bought 36 Rafale from france so follow on order under MII makes sense.

LOL , trump is just saying the things , Public want to hear .............................He is a very good politician .


but American foreign policy is decided by CIA and USA need Indian help so they will share technologies with India ...................

 

[Defcon 1]

300 rafals means no AMCA ..................


also calculate the cost of 300 Rafals ..........

how we will pay for Pak-fa & super sukhoi Upgrades ??

This is a wrong assumption. AMCA is not going to be ready before 2030 at the earliest, most probably by 2035. The earliest Jaguars/Mig 29s/Mirages will be fit for retirement by then. AMCA can progressively replace them.

As for cost, the budget increases should be able to cover it.

The real question we need to ask is, does this mean that the single engine RFI floated by MOD is just a smokescreen and buying more Rafales was the plan all along?

 

[Defcon 1]

we need American technologies which are already developed for F-35 in AMCA , if they need our Help then they should share these technologies with India ......................no Point of Buying so many costly rafals .

My man, look how US treated their special partner in F35 project, their friends Koreans in KFX project. We are never going to any technologies from them. France, on the other hand is a known proliferator famous for selling weapons to both sides during the cold war, and was once blamed by Trump as playing "footloose" with nuclear tech. France, IMHO is the best hope for advanced aircraft technology.

 

[airtel]

300 Rafals is too much .............

Even french dont have this much rafals ...........

 

[smestarz]

Does that also include corrupt A-holes ACM Tyagi and also NAK Browne the fixers?
Everyone has an idea more or less what Tyagi did and surely he cannot say that it was a political masters because his cousins ensured their stake in that, NAK Browne , well the enquiry into Pilatus deal and all his misdeeds are are available in open forum now.
I let you think about that and then you might

BTW, IAF chief thinks that India has access to immense wealth and all the defence fund allotted is for IAF only., Thats why I called him Chu**** And I dont feel bad about it at all.

I have respect for the soldiers and the low level officers who really put their lives at stake, and the jokers like the NAK Browne do so without any worry or fear since they are "highly respected" due to their high post.

If by that definition, why abuse even MMS. he ensured that india was looted and yet he was "INNOCENT" Why abuse Sonia or RG they are not even ministers.

Criticism is one thing but abusive language against heads of services does not seems right. Certain degree of civility has to be maintained.

 

[smestarz]

YES and you know how Dassault had given incomplete financial bid whch was still not objected by then govt and then the financial DATA was competed by NAK Browne, Did you forget that???
Matters are simple
a) RAHA is a Chu***
b) Buying more Rafales means the home grown planes that India is trying to develop will meet the same fate as HF-24 in 70s
Then dont go around blaming agencies like HAL which do not produce plane on time because the user himself (IAF) has no interest in domestically developed plane.
When you take out ACMs like him from the service and bring in top chiefs with nationalistic mindset, you become self reliant. You can compare how many planes China imports and compare then against IAF. You will see the difference, Then you can stop wondering why India is so far behind in Aerospace development.

You do know Rafale and other MMRCA contenders were tested extensively by India don't you?

 

[smestarz]

Rafale is plane of 80s you still wnat to be stuck on 80s plane?
Wasnt the argument similar to when Rafale was suggested by IAF over Su-30 MKI ? So why does that argument flater now? because Rafale is French?

Rafale and AMCA are completely different planes. You are comparing Apples and Oranges

Yes cost of purchasing 300 rafale is enormous but we don't have much options. GOI has long neglected our Air force's operational strength. We need at least 400 fighters in immediate future. Also the payment will be divided over a long period so our budget can manage.

I can't say much about Pak fa and Super Sukhoi but if we follow recent reports about Russian behaviour, it would be stupid for GOI to choose russian option. Even if GOI had earlier made plans about Russian planes, if any common sense prevails in south block I am sure they must be reevaluating it right now.

Even if we go with Pak fa (FGFA), in its current state it will takes at least a decade to be ready (If Russians don't milk us for money). Our need is more urgent.

Right now Rafale seems most likely in near future along with single engine plane like F-16/Gripen, Tejas MK1A and in long term AMCA.

 

[lcafanboy]

Rafale is plane of 80s you still wnat to be stuck on 80s plane?
Wasnt the argument similar to when Rafale was suggested by IAF over Su-30 MKI ? So why does that argument flater now? because Rafale is French?

How come a Fighter with GaN Aesa radar, sensor fusion, and fifth gen avionics and EW suit spectra which provides electronic stealth and passive detection keeping radar silence which is better than stealth designed fighter, gold canopy like F-22 though not frameless, saw tooth design all over body be called a plane of 80's. The only thing it lacks is internal bays which is not required as all the weapons are electronically shielded by spectra.

By that logic even F-22 first flight was in 80's. So is it 80's plane? F-22 avionics in comparison to Rafale are obsolete no GaN radar only GaA,

Arup raha rightly called it a 5th gen plane.

 

[Defcon 1]

YES and you know how Dassault had given incomplete financial bid whch was still not objected by then govt and then the financial DATA was competed by NAK Browne, Did you forget that???

This is speculation based upon one Ajai Shukla's report. MOD did not comment on it. If you can prove it, please try.

Then dont go around blaming agencies like HAL which do not produce plane on time because the user himself (IAF) has no interest in domestically developed plane.
When you take out ACMs like him from the service and bring in top chiefs with nationalistic mindset, you become self reliant. You can compare how many planes China imports and compare then against IAF. You will see the difference, Then you can stop wondering why India is so far behind in Aerospace development.

HAL never meets its production timelines. It has nothing to do with the orders they are given. Hundreds of Dhruvs have been ordered, why wasn't HAL able to meet its production timeline?

It is very easy to give lecture to service chiefs to have a nationalistic mindset and become self reliant, when you don't have the responsibility on your shoulders to defend the country using whatever the weapons that have been procured. When you yourself have to buy a laptop for personal work, you will always choose Dell/HP/Lenovo instead of HCL. Nationalistic mindset goes to hell at that time.

 

[Cutting Edge]

Rafale is plane of 80s you still wnat to be stuck on 80s plane?
Wasnt the argument similar to when Rafale was suggested by IAF over Su-30 MKI ? So why does that argument flater now? because Rafale is French?

1) No one is arguing about corruption and its major damage to our nation in last decade. Buying Rafale will atleast give us some breathing space against rapidly advancing dragon.

2) Is there any indigenous medium aircraft equivalent of Rafale currently offered by HAl? That also has to be be mass produced in next 10 to 15 years. Hack even Tejas won't reach required numbers in next 10 years.

3) AMCA is just a pipe dream right now. HAL only has a scaled wind tunnel model of AMCA. The fact is AMCA is decades away. GOI hasn't even financially approved AMCA project yet.

80's tech really?

 

[Cutting Edge]

Rafale has some of the best avionics and modern enhancements compared to any other 4++ gen fighter.

IAF will further modify this beast and make it more lethal.

 

[gadeshi]

Rafale has some of the best avionics and modern enhancements compared to any other 4++ gen fighter.

IAF will further modify this beast and make it more lethal.

View attachment 12780

It is very unlikely because of strict French licensing policy.

Отправлено с моего XT1080 через Tapatalk

 

[airtel]

It is very unlikely because of strict French licensing policy.

Отправлено с моего XT1080 через Tapatalk

yes we are modifying Rafals with Israeli & Indian technologies ............and this is why we are Paying 2 Billion $ to France .

 

[MrPresident]

It doesn't make much sense for India to pay $2 billion for customization and order only 36. I feel its better to got for more Rafales and cancel the single engine fighter bids. Instead order more of our own LCA and concentrate on improving it. Even if IAF thinks the LCA is inferior, Rafales and SU30 MKI will always be the front liners and LCA will be in a supporting role.

India should understand that US and Russians dint start building F22 s, F35s and Sukhois from the word go. It took them long and hard way to achieve it.

 

[StealthFlanker]

How come a Fighter with GaN Aesa radar

Rafale does not have GaN radar at the moment

sensor fusion

Many 4.5 gen aircraft have sensor fusion : gripen has it , Typhoon has it , F-18E has it

EW suit spectra which provides electronic stealth and passive detection keeping radar silence which is better than stealth designed fighter, gold canopy like F-22 though not frameless, saw tooth design all over body be called a plane of 80's. The only thing it lacks is internal bays which is not required as all the weapons are electronically shielded by spectra.

The so called "electronic stealth" or "active cancellation" is far inferior to traditional stealth since it is very easily countered with PRF stagger or PFI jittering ; phase coded or nonliner frequency modulation pulse compression is another option.
For passive detection, every aircraft with a simple RWR has that function. But passive detection is only a subsidize for radar detection, not a substitute for it.Because, passive systems are really bad in airborne ranging

 

[lcafanboy]

It doesn't make much sense for India to pay $2 billion for customization and order only 36. I feel its better to got for more Rafales and cancel the single engine fighter bids. Instead order more of our own LCA and concentrate on improving it. Even if IAF thinks the LCA is inferior, Rafales and SU30 MKI will always be the front liners and LCA will be in a supporting role.

India should understand that US and Russians dint start building F22 s, F35s and Sukhois from the word go. It took them long and hard way to achieve it.

Who told you that we are just buying 36 Rafales? The total numbers of Rafales will exceed 300 including Rafale M for Indian Navy.