Know Your 'Rafale'

[vishwaprasad]

Yes, EF primary actual air to air missile is the US AMRAAM AIM120.

Thats interesting, I never knew that EF carries same AIM-120 like F-16.... thanks for info... just one more question... after Meteor is operational on EF will they continue with AMARAAM or it will be Meteor only.

 

[syncro]

It will be fun to see the story of Meteor in India and the face of Parrikar.
Leonardo-Finmeccanica owns 25% of MBDA... indian meteors without 25% of pieces ... no warhead or engine?

 

[vishwaprasad]

Not the Gripen please,not the Gripen.I would even take the FA 18 over it.

No Gripen and no SH also please... MII should be and in fact will be Rafale only... I am sure that navy has too made its mind to go for Rafale M... Rafale future planes wont come that costly after naval and AF further orders...

 

[vishwaprasad]

It will be fun to see the story of Meteor in India and the face of Parrikar.
Leonardo-Finmeccanica owns 25% of MBDA... indian meteors without 25% of pieces ... no warhead or engine?

What do you mean syncro? do you mean to say that for Meteor warhead and engine India needs approval from Italy?

 

[WolfPack86]

India Mulls Rafale or Gripen Combat Aircraft Over F-16

 

[syncro]

No... but Finmeccanica is banned in India.

 

[AmoghaVarsha]

No Gripen and no SH also please... MII should be and in fact will be Rafale only... I am sure that navy has too made its mind to go for Rafale M... Rafale future planes wont come that costly after naval and AF further orders...

Indications are it wont be a Rafale.

 

[vishwaprasad]

No... but Finmeccanica is banned in India.

I think its not permanently banned... ban is normally for limited period...

 

[vishwaprasad]

Indications are it wont be a Rafale.

There is no such indications bro... in fact latest statements from ACM about Rafales indicating more numbers of Rafales.. even if we go for additional 18 Rafales and order 45 Rafale Ms for Navy then also the number touches 98 which is again huge...

 

[AmoghaVarsha]

There is no such indications bro... in fact latest statements from ACM about Rafales indicating more numbers of Rafales.. even if we go for additional 18 Rafales and order 45 Rafale Ms for Navy then also the number touches 98 which is again huge...

For MII i believe we need higher numbers. If its additional 90 for IAF plus the Navy order then we can talk about MII.

The gripen name cropping up means we may be looking for a cheaper plane.

 

[vishwaprasad]

For MII i believe we need higher numbers. If its additional 90 for IAF plus the Navy order then we can talk about MII.

The gripen name cropping up means we may be looking for a cheaper plane.

I guess Gripen name is cropping up purposely to get much better output from Rafale next deal...

 

[AmoghaVarsha]

I guess Gripen name is cropping up purposely to get much better output from Rafale next deal...

French are no fools.They will not be swayed by this.

 

[vishwaprasad]

French are no fools.They will not be swayed by this.

Maybe you are rite but I think such high price for Rafale 36 numbers which India is paying there must be some adjustment done by France and India for future Rafale orders and its cost... Gripen will be a big mistake India will do, not only sanction prone US engine of Gripen but we should not also forget that how Swidish themselves too tried to sanction us during Kargil war when we were using Bofors guns... France on other hand supplied us everything we wanted to use on our Mirages... Rafale has commonality with Mirage 2000 in many systems... it can't be any other fighter now other than Rafale

 

[syncro]

10 years... but this in not a problem... the problem is that the european defence firms are heavy interconnected and a large country like India with ambitions of being a global player needs to stop this kinds of childish moves (only for laughable reasons of internal political gain).

I see discussion about the Grippen in this thread... 32% of Grippen parts are from Finmeccanica... your Pilatus trainers are almost a Finmeccanica products... there are rumors for merge discussions DCNS-Fincantieri (Fincantieri is a naval branch of Finmeccanica)... etc.. etc.

 

[vishwaprasad]

10 years... but this in not a problem... the problem is that the european defence firms are heavy interconnected and a large country like India with ambitions of being a global player needs to stop this kinds of childish moves (only for laughable reasons of internal political gain).

I see discussion about the Grippen in this thread... 32% of Grippen parts are from Finmeccanica... your Pilatus trainers are almost a Finmeccanica products... there are rumors for merge discussions DCNS-Fincantieri (Fincantieri is a naval branch of Finmeccanica)... etc.. etc.

You are rite... our leaders really play with national security to have some cheap political gains...

Now if ban on Finmeccanica is being obstacle in Gripen entry then I am really very happy... But Meteor part is a thing to worry....

 

[airtel]

Maybe you are rite but I think such high price for Rafale 36 numbers which India is paying there must be some adjustment done by France and India for future Rafale orders and its cost... Gripen will be a big mistake India will do, not only sanction prone US engine of Gripen but we should not also forget that how Swidish themselves too tried to sanction us during Kargil war when we were using Bofors guns... France on other hand supplied us everything we wanted to use on our Mirages... Rafale has commonality with Mirage 2000 in many systems... it can't be any other fighter now other than Rafale

bhai we are not Paying High prize for Rafael ..................cost of each Rafael Air-frame= 85 million $ ................rest of the money is used for weapon package & Modifications according to requirements of IAF ................example , IAF version of Rafael will use modified engines with 90 kn thrusts ) ...........and Israeli Helmet mounted display , lightening-5 POD ...........and Aircraft is modified so that we can Include Indian weapons Like sudershan , Bramhos & astra ...............they will have to setup 2 bases with 10 years of support ............and there are Missiles Like MICA , storm shadow & meteor in the weapon package <<<< these missiles are extremely Good but costly .

 

[Scarface]

There is no such indications bro... in fact latest statements from ACM about Rafales indicating more numbers of Rafales.. even if we go for additional 18 Rafales and order 45 Rafale Ms for Navy then also the number touches 98 which is again huge...

There isn't any indication because there is a clear statement from the defence minister that there won't be a full scale Rafale purchase

Quote
Defence Minister Manohar Parrikarreportedly said last year the larger Rafale deal was too expensive. "We are not buying the rest. I also feel like having a BMW and Mercedes. But I don't because I can't afford it."

Source

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...-match-china-experts/articleshow/54466421.cms

The thing is it's not the Rafale that is expensive,it is the India specific modifications that make it so,the French for whatever reason are demanding exorbitant prices to modify it,and Boeing/LM/SAAB seem to be more economical options

India Mulls Rafale or Gripen Combat Aircraft Over F-16

In what could be a difficult road ahead for US manufacturers Boeing and Lockheed Martin, Indian Air Force Air Chief Marshal Arup Raha will prefer the company that would not only set up its production line in India but would also be ready to transfer technology. During Defense Minister Manohar Parrikar's visit to the US in August, Boeing and Lockheed Martin made official proposals to manufacture F/A-18 and F-16s respectively under the "Make in India" campaign.

Air Chief Marshal Raha said that companies like Boeing, Lockheed Martin, and SAAB had offered to set up manufacturing units for combat aircraft in India.

India and France have already signed an intergovernmental agreement for 36 Rafale combat aircraft. The first Rafale is expected to be inducted into Indian Air Force by 2019.

"Any air force would be proud to have aircraft of the Rafale class, which is in the mid-weight category. A decision on more numbers of Rafale jets will be taken in the near future which would be based on its capability," said Raha.

Raha said that Sweden's Gripen fighter aircraft is a good fighter as compared to others like the F-16, but their final decision will take into consideration whomever gives the best deal, the capabilities and the transfer of technology.

Earlier in June this year, Raha inspected the SAAB production facility in Linkoping, Sweden. SAAB offered to develop, manufacture and undertake the final assembly of its Gripen E fighter jet in India. The Indian Air Force currently has 33 active fighter squadrons.
http://www.defencenews.in/article/India-Mulls-Rafale-or-Gripen-Combat-Aircraft-Over-F-16-8515

The website says the article has been sourced from Sputnik,which is a highly unreliable source,I'd wait for other sources to corroborate it.

Not to mention Gripen-E would directly conflict with Tejas' role

 

[BON PLAN]

Partially wrong... Thyphoon had the MARTE ER missile as naval weapon and this limitation is another politic choice.
Both EF-2000 and Rafale are expensive toys... only few rich countries can buy them and the main target of EF-2000 sell are the arabian gulf countries... no one wants to give them a true capacity to thread frigate size warships, oil tankers and other civilian ships around the Suez canal... the MARTE ER with it small warhead (75 kg) is the max that western producers can give as naval weapon to those countries... it is the same story because the Egyptians F16 dont have long range missiles as AIM 120 and no naval missiles as Harpoons (add also Israel in the equation).

Yes and No.
Rafale was sold to Egypt, which isn't a specially rich country (even if Saudi paid a part...).
And if Rafale was choosen by Egyp, maybe it's because of the Mica furniture (and AASM and SCALP). Tomorrow why not some Exocet ? AND AND because Egypt was desesperate to see that it can't use its F16 without the aval of uncle Sam....

 

[Bahamut]

Range of SCALP is unofficially of more than 450km.

Sir at that range at low altitude how will track the target ?
Datalink will expose it so the co ordinates have to entered before launch so it will have limited use against mobile target?

 

[BON PLAN]

Thats interesting, I never knew that EF carries same AIM-120 like F-16.... thanks for info... just one more question... after Meteor is operational on EF will they continue with AMARAAM or it will be Meteor only.

I think the two.
Because Meteor costs a lot, and such a range is usefull only in some situation. It's why Franch Rafale will embark only 2 Meteor with 2 or 4 Mica. Probabaly some country will request to embark 4 Meteor on Rafale (Qatar ?)