Know Your 'Rafale'

[sasum]

India unlikely to buy more Rafales —— MoD Source.
http://www.indiandefensenews.in/2016/10/india-unlikely-to-buy-additional-rafale.html?m=1

 

[airtel]

Where did you get that year 2028?
Also, HAL has placed cost of LCA on record to be over $30 million. (only aircraft)

Also cost of Rafale (french version, no modifications) is about 110 million. With modifications required for IAF, it will cross 150 million.

cost of tejas 1a = 45 million $ (according to Wikipedia )

 

[Defcon 1]

cost of tejas 1a = 45 million $ (according to Wikipedia )

Tejas mk1a's cost is not known. Lets not take wiki as a reliable source.

 

[sasum]

Where did you get that year 2028?

See today's idrw.org Article.............................

 

[vishwaprasad]

GRIPEN is a nice plane. Perfectly suited to replace Mig21.

But don't forget Tejas !!!! Without Tejas Gripen will have a lot of chance. But Tejas is here, and is the symbol of India aerospace industry.

Bad luck Gripen. You are a good looking light fighter but not in India.

Yes... Its Rafale all the way as a future of IAF MII... even if the news is being floated that India is unlikely to go for more Rafales its Rafale only which is going to be selected as MII... India is big naval power with ambitions of being dominating power in IOR and for that we need a strong and modern fighter who can perform naval tasks too with ease and quite dominantly against other fighters... only MIG-29 K though good fighter wont be enough as air power for navy against likes of Falnkers J series fighters of PLAN which will be roaming in IOR in near future....we should not even forget the fact that we are now building our own ACs and for that navy has already hinted a preference to Rafales... so India will now choose Rafales only to make commonality of platform with IAF and IN... both will be using MIG-29s and Rafales in future....

 

[vishwaprasad]

Various statements,seems Gripen is being considered actively.

March 17 is the date for the announcement of the new fighter.Lets wait.

No bro... it will be Rafales only...where did you get the news that MII fighter will be declared on 17 th March... can you please send me link? and if that date is confirmed then I will again say that new fighter will be Rafale only... you can keep my post quoted here on this...

 

[airtel]

Yes... Its Rafale all the way as a future of IAF MII... even if the news is being floated that India is unlikely to go for more Rafales its Rafale only which is going to be selected as MII... India is big naval power with ambitions of being dominating power in IOR and for that we need a strong and modern fighter who can perform naval tasks too with ease and quite dominantly against other fighters... only MIG-29 K though good fighter wont be enough as air power for navy against likes of Falnkers J series fighters of PLAN which will be roaming in IOR in near future....we should not even forget the fact that we are now building our own ACs and for that navy has already hinted a preference to Rafales... so India will now choose Rafales only to make commonality of platform with IAF and IN... both will be using MIG-29s and Rafales in future....

The fighter planes are designed for either catobar or satobar (its costly to change the design later)

-MiG29K & naval tajas are designed as STOBAR ,
- Rafael-M(Marine) is Designed CATOBAR,


INS Vikramaditya & INS Vikrant ..............both are STOBAR Carriers , only INS Vishal will be EMAL CATOBAR carrier .................construction of INS vishal will take a lot of time ...............so if Navy wants Rafael then it will require a lot of modifications .

 

[vishwaprasad]

The fighter planes are designed for either catobar or satobar (its costly to change the design later)

-MiG29K & naval tajas are designed as STOBAR ,
- Rafael-M(Marine) is Designed CATOBAR,


INS Vikramaditya & INS Vikrant ..............both are STOBAR Carriers , only INS Vishal will be EMAL CATOBAR carrier .................construction of INS vishal will take a lot of time ...............so if Navy wants Rafael then it will require modifications & that will increase costs .

Still navy has hinted Rafales that is a fact and Rafales can be used from land bases for naval operations till the time Vishal gets ready...we were doing same with MIG-29 Ks too from land bases in Goa.. but in order to keep commonality with IAF and IN Rafales are coming...

 

[airtel]

Still navy has hinted Rafales that is a fact and Rafales can be used from land bases for naval operations till the time Vishal gets ready...we were doing same with MIG-29 Ks too from land bases in Goa.. but in order to keep commonality with IAF and IN Rafales are coming...

INS Vikrant is not Inducted yet and INS Vikramaditya is having Modifications & upgrades that is why pilots are practicing in Goa ..........


INS vishaal will be Induction only after 10-15 years ...............what is the purpose of Aircraft carriers if we have to use Land bases ??

 

[airtel]

sorry ,according to this , rafael can be operated by STOBAR carriers >> https://rafalenews.blogspot.com/2012/06/rafale-stobar-compatible.html

 

[vishwaprasad]

INS Vikrant is not Inducted yet and INS Vikramaditya is having Modifications & upgrades that is why pilots are practicing in Goa ..........


INS vishaal will be Induction only after 10-15 years ...............what is the purpose of Aircraft carriers if we have to use Land bases ??

To have a pilots trained and knowhow for navy of new fighter jet.... Rest India is not going to buy additional Rafales the source is real BS....

 

[BON PLAN]

From StealthFlanker : Problem is you cannot always locate a SAM battery from 450 km[/QUOTE]


answer :
Yes you can. With satelite (the battery must not move), with spy plane (probably 2), or with special troops on the ground.

 

[BON PLAN]

India Unlikely To Buy Additional Rafale Fighter Jets, MoD Source Says
NEW DELHI — India is unlikely to acquire additional Rafale fighter jets because the Indian Air Force (IAF) is "fully satisfied" following the recently signed $8.8 billion deal to purchase 36 of the fighters, according to a source with the Indian Ministry of Defence (MoD).

"[N]o additional purchase is being contemplated," the MoD source said of the aircraft.

The Sept. 23 contract between India and France has no optional clause for additional fighters, which would mean any additional purchases would have to be negotiated with a fresh price, the source added.
However, Amit Cowshish, a former financial adviser for the MoD, said the "absence of [an] option[al] clause does not rule out the possibility of acquiring more of the same aircraft," adding that "even a separate contract can be negotiated at the same price."

"Indian Air Force just has 33 squadrons as against the felt need of 42 to 45 squadrons. This strength will go down further as 10-11 squadrons are scheduled to be phased out in the next few years. It is in this
background that the possibility of new Rafale fighters aircraft assumes significance," Cowshish said.

Although there could be a future need for more fighters, Cowshish said: "It seems unlikely that the entire requirement will be made up by acquiring Rafale aircraft, for had that been the intention India would not have gone in for acquisition of just two squadrons at this stage."
At an Oct. 5 news conference here, Chief of the Air Staff of the Indian Air Force (IAF) Air Chief Marshal Arup Raha said: "Any air force would be proud to have aircraft of the Rafale class, which is in the mid-weight category." On the possibility of buying additional Rafale, Raha said: "A decision on more numbers of Rafale jets will be taken in the near future, which would be based on its capability."

However, Vivek Rae, the MoD's former director general of acquisition, said that "given the depleted strength of IAF squadrons, it is clear that IAF will have to purchase more Rafale aircraft in [the] future. The quantum will depend on availability of funds."

"The truncated Rafale deal is the direct outcome of budgetary constraints," Rae added. India had chose to buy only 36 Rafale after cancelling the program to acquire 126 Rafale
IAF officials, however, say adding additional types of fighter aircraft to the fleet would not be as economical as purchasing additional Rafale jets.

"It is obvious that the long-term, per-aircraft maintenance costs of a small fleet of aircraft will always be higher than for larger numbers, whether there are life cycle guarantees or otherwise," said Subhash
Bhojwani, a retired IAF air marshal and defense analyst.
IAF currently has seven aircraft types: Sukhoi Su-30MKI, Mirage 2000, Jaguar, MiG-29, MiG-27, MiG-21 and homemade Tejas Light Combat Aircraft. The Rafale will be the eighth type.

"With no clear indication as of now that additional Rafale would be bought, a window is open wide for the acquisition of another type of fighter," another MoD source said.

Daljit Singh, a retired IAF air marshal and defense analyst said: "IAF requirement was for 126 aircraft and that requirement still holds. Also, the defence minister has announced that the government would earmark one fighter by the end of the year that would be manufactured in India. Whether it would be Rafale or not is not clear as yet."
http://www.defensenews.com/articles...dditional-rafale-fighter-jets-mod-source-says

The same was said even one day before the 23th september about the purchase of 36 !!!

The common sense ask for more planes, if not you don't paid for such a heavy customization of the plane (High and hot. Just use your plane everywhere else), of the weapons to be integrated (Mica and Meteor and Scalp and AASM largely enough for a small fleet of 36), a new targeting pod (take the french one), the new helmet (take the one integrated following Qatar order), and 2 air bases accomodation (1 base enough for 36, with at every moment the possibility to divert some planes for somes days on other bases).

 

[BON PLAN]

Also cost of Rafale (french version, no modifications) is about 110 million. With modifications required for IAF, it will cross 150 million.

it is 90 to 95 euros millions for french model. In $ it is nearly 105 to 110 millions.

 

[BON PLAN]

India unlikely to buy more Rafales —— MoD Source.
http://www.indiandefensenews.in/2016/10/india-unlikely-to-buy-additional-rafale.html?m=1

Two weeks ago India was unlikely to buy Rafale according to the same sources !!!

All of that is : :blah::blah::blah:

 

[sasum]

Two weeks ago India was unlikely to buy Rafale according to the same sources !!!

All of that is : :blah::blah::blah:

The same source? Nah! You are mistaken. BTW, even you know, the Rafale file has been cleared due to political expediency than all round merit of the aircraft. Modi just kept a gentleman's promise. That's all. Rafale chapter is closed.

 

[vishwaprasad]

The same was said even one day before the 23th september about the purchase of 36 !!!

The common sense ask for more planes, if not you don't paid for such a heavy customization of the plane (High and hot. Just use your plane everywhere else), of the weapons to be integrated (Mica and Meteor and Scalp and AASM largely enough for a small fleet of 36), a new targeting pod (take the french one), the new helmet (take the one integrated following Qatar order), and 2 air bases accomodation (1 base enough for 36, with at every moment the possibility to divert some planes for somes days on other bases).

Well said... the customization plan alone is enough to hint more number if Rafales in future otherwise it wont make costly customization for 36 Rafales...Gripen getting selected for MII is like same when in 2010-11 everybody was thinking SH was getting finalized for MRCA...Finally IAF showed what they already have decided... this time also its going to be same

 

[smestarz]

Customization depends on the need of the buyer and if the buyer can pay for the customisation.
It does not mean that numbers can be big for having customisation. Customisation is country specific and it helps the user country to use its present weapons in its arsenal and thus saving more cost.
So customisation may or may not signal more numbers, but it more precisely specifies what India wants in its planes,. If we are paying for the planes, we better get the planes as per our requirement as how we see fit and not as available.

Su-30 MKM for malaysia, only 18 were ordered, but some of the customisation for MKM is unique to malaysia and is not in other Su-30 MKI. or MKK

Well said... the customization plan alone is enough to hint more number if Rafales in future otherwise it wont make costly customization for 36 Rafales...Gripen getting selected for MII is like same when in 2010-11 everybody was thinking SH was getting finalized for MRCA...Finally IAF showed what they already have decided... this time also its going to be same

 

[vishwaprasad]

Customization depends on the need of the buyer and if the buyer can pay for the customisation.
It does not mean that numbers can be big for having customisation. Customisation is country specific and it helps the user country to use its present weapons in its arsenal and thus saving more cost.
So customisation may or may not signal more numbers, but it more precisely specifies what India wants in its planes,. If we are paying for the planes, we better get the planes as per our requirement as how we see fit and not as available.

Su-30 MKM for malaysia, only 18 were ordered, but some of the customisation for MKM is unique to malaysia and is not in other Su-30 MKI. or MKK

You were the same guy who was saying that Rafale deal at all wont be signed rite??? would love to see you again when the MII will be announced...

 

[smestarz]

YES and I still feel that Rafale is just Pak specific, ,, most of IAF is PAK specific
And in all honestly even MiG-29 we have is way better than their best plane F-16 block 52

The only interesting thing for me is how would Rafale ever go against Chinese Su-30 MKK or Su-35 or would IAF keep them in central India away from all action.

In case we have spent so high for such a plane, it better show results against China., As for Pakistam we are already full covered on all bases.

MII? 2 decades give or take 5 years?

You were the same guy who was saying that Rafale deal at all wont be signed rite??? would love to see you again when the MII will be announced...