Know Your 'Rafale'

[IndianHawk]

F35 was not really an option for India . It is struggling on many levels right now , plus its data link solely situated in America is also an issue.

 

[BON PLAN]

All the things you write is the handiwork of a French Dussault agent. You are questioning F-35 in real war. My question to you is when did Rafale fight a real air war other than chasing some Islamic terrosridt in Sahara desert. Rafale is a myth and an old myth. F-35 is a stealth fighter jet; no one will ever know when it is or isn't involved in a real war. Right now, it is in South Korea and likely flying over North Korea. India should have bought 36 F-35 with that 9 billion.. Pakistani foreign minister Khwaza will not be threatening a nuclear war on India had it been a deal for F-35. Rafale is a monstrous jet. Pakistan and China will see it in their radars seconds after it takes off. How it will be an advantage for IAF over Su-30MKI is anybody's guess.

Just say me when the last air war was ?

In Lybia Rafale was the first to enter in the Lybian airspace, with the risk of SAM and fighter opposition. It's not the french responsability if no Lybian fighter dared to fight....

South Korea is at least two years before receiving it's FIRST F35..... so before it fly over north K, we can wait a long time....

You are badly informed Mate.

 

[Sam Biswas]

Just say me when the last air war was ?

In Lybia Rafale was the first to enter in the Lybian airspace, with the risk of SAM and fighter opposition. It's not the french responsability if no Lybian fighter dared to fight....

South Korea is at least two years before receiving it's FIRST F35..... so before it fly over north K, we can wait a long time....

You are badly informed Mate.

USAF already flying it in South Korea. Libya had no real air defense. You can't fool everyone in the world. Rafale is so huge, it can't survive a modern air defense like China and Pakistan. I guarantee it will never fly in Chinese and Pakistani air space. So India can use it only for defence but it can also use its other fighters including Tejas. This $9 billion purchase would add very little to India's attack capability. You can shout from the mountain top but it is not going to change anything.

 

[BON PLAN]

USAF already flying it in South Korea. Libya had no real air defense. You can't fool everyone in the world. Rafale is so huge, it can't survive a modern air defense like China and Pakistan. I guarantee it will never fly in Chinese and Pakistani air space. So India can use it only for defence but it can also use its other fighters including Tejas. This $9 billion purchase would add very little to India's attack capability. You can shout from the mountain top but it is not going to change anything.

You are making auto adaptative answer.....

You were speaking of south Korean F35 ! Now you know they don't exist yet.

Some USAF F35 flying in Korea ? You are dreaming my dear. No F35 are flying outside USA, except some in Europe, mainly (not to say only) for air meeting (last exemple : in Netherlands some weeks ago).

 

[Rushil51]

Would love to hear more on this! Can anyone elaborate?


Edit:- This also hints towards Rafale being India's primary nuclear weapon delivery platform (As few reports indicated)

 

[WolfPack86]

India Will Deploy Rafale Jets Carrying Nuke Against China, Pakistan: Chinese Media

India will deploy the recently bought Rafale fighter aircraft capable of carrying tactical nuclear warheads near disputed regions with Pakistan and China as New Delhi continues to be largest arms purchaser in the world, the Chinese state media predicted on Friday.
The jets are capable of carrying tactical nuclear warheads, which means India’s nuclear deterrence capability will be enhanced, an article published in nationalistic Global Times tabloid said.
India recently signed a deal to buy 36 Rafale fighter jets from France for close to 7.8 billion euros ($8.7 billion). The delivery of the jets, which experts say will allow the air force to strike targets in Pakistan and China from within Indian territory, will begin after three years.
The deal is crucial for the Indian Air Force that is grappling with a drawdown of its fighter fleet.The IAF has 33 fighter squadrons, each consisting of 18 fighter planes. It requires 45 combat units to counter a combined threat from China and Pakistan.
The Global Times article added China’s neighbours, including India, are “hyping” the so-called “China threat” and have gone on an arms purchasing spree --- a move that has increased the import of western-made weapons into Asia.
The report came against the backdrop of India’s strikes on terror launchpads across the Line of Control, India’s de-facto border with Pakistan. India has said the strikes on Wednesday night inflicted “significant casualties” on terrorists preparing to launch attacks in India.
China has yet to officially react to the attacks. Pakistan, Beijing’s “all-weather ally”, has denied that Indian troops had carried out “surgical strikes” across the Line of Control, saying it had responded to “cross-border fire” from the Indian side that killed two soldiers and injured nine more.
The Global Times article, titled “Asia arms imports on the rise as India buys new jets”, is an indication that both the government and strategic circles in China --- even if they were surprised at the Indian operations --- are keeping a close watch on developments in the region, especially the escalating tension between India and Pakistan.
China’s only border, if it can be called that, with Pakistan is along the Pakistan-occupied Kashmir, which is claimed by New Delhi as an integral part of India.
“Last week, India signed an inter-governmental agreement with France in New Delhi for the purchase of 36 Rafale jet fighters in flyaway condition for $8.82 billion from French company Dassault. The jets can carry tactical nuclear warheads, and this means India’s nuclear deterrence capability will be greatly improved,” it said.
Quoting a Shenzhen television report, the newspaper then wrote: “India will deploy its new French-made fighters in the disputed areas bordering Pakistan and China.”
The article emphasised India’s focus on building its military power, possibly indicating that both Beijing and Islamabad should be wary.
“According to the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI), India is the largest arms importer in the world. India is rapidly expanding its military capabilities, spending an estimated $100 billion on new defense systems since Narendra Modi became prime minister in 2014,” the article said.
Zhao Gancheng, director of South Asia Studies at the Shanghai Institutes for International Studies, told the newspaper: “India also wants to purchase the Rafale technology from Dassault but France refused, meaning France has no intention to help India promote its military industrial system.”
Song Zhongping, a Beijing-based military expert, told the Global Times: “The majority of Asian states don’t have a comprehensive and developed military industry, but they have good economic bases, so they are willing to purchase ‘security’ from the West rather than spending more time and money to develop their own systems.”
Many of China’s neighbours are also on the list of top 10 importers, such as Vietnam, South Korea and India.
“Due to the South China Sea dispute and the increasing power of the Chinese navy, countries like Vietnam and the Philippines are very concerned, but the US is not helping China solve the problem peacefully,” Song said.
http://www.indiandefensenews.in/2016/09/india-will-deploy-rafale-jets-carrying.html

 

[Rushil51]

Comparsion of Rafale vs Mirage 2000-5.

 

[WolfPack86]

India may start getting Rafale jets sooner than 36 months
NEW DELHI: The country's armed forces - that are combating an increasingly aggressive Pakistan - have some cause for cheer, as Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar said today that India may start getting its Rafale fighter aircraft from Franceearlier than the agreed-upon 36 months, ANI reported.

"As per the terms of the deal, it is 36 months but it may come earlier slightly," the minister said, about the deal with France that was signed on Friday.

India and France signed+ a Euro 7.87-billion deal for the fighter jets, which are equipped with multiple India-specific modifications+ that will give the Indian Air Force a significant leg up over Pakistan.
Significantly, for India's defence against a sabre-rattling Pakistan, the fighter jets will be equipped with the Beyond Visual Range (BVR) air-to-air 'Meteor' missile, which has a range in excess of 150 km.

That means the Indian Air Force, while staying within India's territorial boundary, can hit targets inside Pakistan as well as across India's northern and eastern borders.
Pakistan currently has missiles with a BVR range of a mere 80 kilometres.

India's Rafale jets will also come equipped with 'Scalp', a long-range air-to-ground cruise missile that has a range in excess of 300 km.

The delivery of these combat aircraft will be completed in 66 months.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...ooner-than-36-months/articleshow/54637517.cms

 

[WolfPack86]

Rafale Deal: Parrikar Hints At Early Arrival Of Fighter Jets

PUNE: Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar on Sunday hinted at the early arrival of the Rafale fighter jets from France to India.
“As per the terms of the deal, it is 36 months, but it may come earlier slightly,” Parrikar told the media at the sidelines of Swachhta rally.
India on September 23 inked a deal for the direct acquisition of 36 Rafale fighter jets from France.
French Defence Minister Yves Le Drian finalized the deal, which will cost India Euros 7.8 billion along with his Indian counterpart Manohar Parrikar.
The negotiations to buy the Rafale fighter jets came through on September 21.
The development came after the Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) discussed the deal and gave the green signal to go ahead with its signing to give a crucial boost to the Indian Air Force.
In June, Parrikar had stated that the number of the fighter jets were "on a path of coming to a conclusion".
Both India and France had hoped to wrap up the strategic order during French President Francois Hollande's visit for the Republic Day celebrations in January this year, but the bargaining over the price stalled the process.
http://www.indiandefensenews.in/2016/10/rafale-deal-parrikar-hints-at-early.html

 

[WolfPack86]

Secret Talks :: France may start deliveries of Rafale to India sooner than 36 months
https://www.facebook.com/indianmilitaryphotos/photos?ref=page_internal

 

[WolfPack86]

France May Start Deliveries Of Rafale To India Sooner Than 36 Months

 

[vishwaprasad]

Thanks wolfpack for this awesome news.... does it mean that our Rafale production has already started in France?

 

[BON PLAN]

Thanks wolfpack for this awesome news.... does it mean that our Rafale production has already started in France?

already maybe not.
But with a rate of 22 planes/year it will be possible to deliver some planes before 36 months (planes without all the Indian goodies, upgraded later?) , maybe to help for training of pilots and technicians in India.

And if Malaysia for exemple, order some more planes, the rate could be push to 33/year.... This news will not urge the first delivery to India, but shorten the last one... and maybe help India to take some more....

 

[vishwaprasad]

Thanks Bon Plan.... So Malaysia too interested?? seems they always buy what India buys, Flankers, Fulcrums and now Rafales... Both uses scorpeans too but I think Malaysians opted earlier than us for it.

 

[Bahamut]

already maybe not.
But with a rate of 22 planes/year it will be possible to deliver some planes before 36 months (planes without all the Indian goodies, upgraded later?) , maybe to help for training of pilots and technicians in India.

And if Malaysia for exemple, order some more planes, the rate could be push to 33/year.... This news will not urge the first delivery to India, but shorten the last one... and maybe help India to take some more....

What about Canada and Singapore, they have delayed their F 35 purchase. Russian are offering Su 35 to Singapore. What about Finland, they to will replace their F 18 hornet.

 

[WolfPack86]

More on the @Dassault_OnAir-@reliancegroup JV in their official statement. Detailed report on plans shortly on Livefist.
https://twitter.com/livefist?lang=en

 

[WolfPack86]

More on the @Dassault_OnAir-@reliancegroup JV in their official statement. Detailed report on plans shortly on Livefist.

https://twitter.com/livefist?lang=en

 

[WolfPack86]

Rafale deal: Reliance, Dassault Aviation set up joint venture
New Delhi, Oct 3 (PTI) In a major deal for Indias private defence industry, Anil Ambani-led Reliance Group and Rafale maker Dassault Aviation today announced a joint venture (JV) that will be a "key player" in execution of offset contract worth about Rs 22,000 crore as part of the fighter jet deal.

The announcement of the JV, Dassault Reliance Aerospace, comes within days of India and France on September 23 signing an agreement for 36 Rafale fighter jets at a value of euro 7.87 billion, or about Rs 59,000 crore.

The agreement includes a 50 per cent offset obligation, the largest-ever offset contract in the history of India.
The main point of the offset agreement is 74 per cent of it has to be imported from India, which means direct business worth around Rs 22,000 crore.

The offset, spread over seven years, will be finalised soon.

There is also a technology-sharing component, which is being discussed with the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO).

Other companies involved in the Rafale deal include French firms MBDA and Thales, besides Safran, which too will be part of the overall offset obligation.

The Dassault Reliance Aerospace joint venture will be a key player in the execution of offset obligations, a joint statement by the companies said.

The development has come as a boost to the Reliance Group, which entered the defence sector only in January 2015.
"This new joint venture called Dassault Reliance Aerospace will support Prime Minister Modis Make in India and Skill India policies and develop major Indian programmes with high levels of technology transfer to benefit the entire aerospace sector," it added.

The proposed strategic partnership between Dassault and Reliance will also focus on promoting research and development projects under the IDDM programme (Indigenously Designed, Developed and Manufactured), a new initiative of Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar.

"The formation of this joint venture with Reliance Aerospace led by Anil Ambanis Reliance Group illustrates our strong commitment to establish ourselves in India and develop strategic industrial partnerships under the Make in India policy promoted by the Indian government," Eric Trappier, Dassault Aviation Chairman and CEO said.

"We are delighted to partner a world leader in aviation like Dassault Aviation. This is a transformational moment for the Indian aerospace sector and Reliance Infrastructures subsidiary Reliance Aerospace," said Anil Ambani, Chairman of the Reliance Group
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/...t-aviation-set-up-joint-venture/1/778861.html

 

[WolfPack86]

Anil Ambani's Reliance Group Forms JV With Dassault For Rafale Jets

Under India’s offsets policy, Dassault will have to procure Indian-manufactured products equivalent to 50% of the deal to help domestic defence manufacturing
New Delhi: Anil Dhirubhai Ambani-led Reliance Group has formed a joint venture with French-aircraft maker Dassault Aviation SA to benefit from the local manufacturing requirements under the recently signed Rs.59,000 crore Rafale fighter jet deal.
The Dassault Reliance Aerospace joint venture will be a key player in the "execution of offset obligations" as a part of the 36 Rafale fighter jets signed between France and India on 23 September 2016, Reliance said in a statement on Monday.
Under India’s so-called offsets policy, Dassault will have to procure Indian-manufactured products equivalent to 50% of the deal to help domestic defence manufacturing.
That is what the new joint venture plans to undertake.
“The formation of this joint venture with Reliance Aerospace led by Anil Ambani’s Reliance Group illustrates our strong commitment to establish ourselves in India and to develop strategic industrial partnerships under the “Make in India” policy promoted by the Indian government,” said Eric Trappier, Dassault Aviation chairman & chief executive officer.
“We are delighted to partner a world leader in aviation like Dassault Aviation, and a visionary leader like Eric Trappier. This is a transformational moment for the Indian Aerospace sector and for Reliance Infrastructure’s subsidiary Reliance Aerospace”, said Anil Ambani, chairman of Reliance Group.
Rafale has been used by the French armed forces in combat operations for more than a decade. It entered service with the French Navy in 2004 and with the French Air Force in 2006. Some of the 152 planes delivered so far have been used in combat in Afghanistan, Libya, Mali, Iraq and Syria.
These combat aircraft, delivery of which are expected to start in 36 months and be completed in 66 months from the time of signing of the contract, comes equipped with state-of-the-art missiles like ‘Meteor’ and ‘Scalp’. With the air-to-air Meteor missiles, Indian Air Force will be able to hit targets as far as 150km away, compared with 80km it has so far been capable of targeting. Scalp, an air-to-ground cruise missile with a range in excess of 300km, will also gives the IAF an edge over its adversaries.
Defence minister Manohar Parrikar indicated last week that the jets, which were earlier expected after 36 months may start flying before that deadline.
http://www.indiandefensenews.in/2016/10/anil-ambanis-reliance-group-forms-jv.html

 

[wegweg]

Would love to hear more on this! Can anyone elaborate?


Edit:- This also hints towards Rafale being India's primary nuclear weapon delivery platform (As few reports indicated)

This explains why they were decided on the Rafale from day one, its nuclear strike role. And it explains the small numbers, how many nuclear weapons would need to be delivered?