Know Your 'Rafale'

A chauhan

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For J20 and much before that we'll be having superior Pakfas , Rafales would play the role of all rounder jets, any mission any condition, you name it and Rafael does it, MKIs will still be the superiority fighters, so Rafael will provide a lethal technological edge which not only IAF is lacking as of now but the whole Asian forces lack.

Therefore, in terms of advanced air combat technologies IAF will be leading all the Airforces in the whole Asia.
 

ashdoc

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Talk of Chinese secrecy isn't hot air,this is evident from the lack information available about Chinese defence systems in public domain as compared to Western and Russian counter parts,what information is available is from other countries who have acquired information on it,the quality and capabilities of the system is irrelevant to the Chinese,they find it better to keep things secret,I am not talking like a 50 center,just stating reality.


The context isn't anything other than the J-20 and it's threat perception,that is the topic of the entire Q&A,the USAF pilots are well informed on threats and future threats and are familiarized with 5th gen capabilities,if you are proposing the pilot is spewing hot air and isn't speaking from an informed perspective then I'd rather not address this point.

2 of the 4 countries I mentioned in my previous post had no stake in the F-35 development,namely Japan and SK both being under threat from China,so maybe my argument doesn't apply to the UK and Australia but it does apply to Japan and SK
Another case of your cherrypicking.

Also Singapore(another country threatened by China) had also ordered 12 F-35Bs , they've put the purchase on hold since then but it's still on the table.

Alarmism and concern are two very different things,if you can't differentiate between the two then you have your perception to blame

Pilots may be a factor in fund haggling if they are voicing concerns directly to the defence department or parliament

Talking to a journalist doesn't do anything for funding

My source says the J-20 will be able to outmatch US 4th gen assets , which is the same yardstick for Rafale.

Yes,my source is a USAF pilot who is familiar with the threats which face him in the future and also has experience with 5th gen aircraft.

J-20 is indeed a big threat to Rafale,you can continue to believe whatever you like.
j 20 does not have a stealthy engine ready yet , which can fly without afterburners . it is still in development and on the other hand rafale is ready for combat . dont compare the two .
 

Scarface

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For J20 and much before that we'll be having superior Pakfas , Rafales would play the role of all rounder jets, any mission any condition, you name it and Rafael does it, MKIs will still be the superiority fighters, so Rafael will provide a lethal technological edge which not only IAF is lacking as of now but the whole Asian forces lack.

Therefore, in terms of advanced air combat technologies IAF will be leading all the Airforces in the whole Asia.
At the current rate ,our chances of getting pak fa before the Chinese AF get J-20 aren't very high

j 20 does not have a stealthy engine ready yet , which can fly without afterburners . it is still in development and on the other hand rafale is ready for combat . dont compare the two .
Almost all jets can fly without afterburners,it's called operating dry,I think you mean it cannot supercruise with it's current engines which is true

But that has little to do with stealth,the fighter can continue to fly without afterburners , thereby avoiding the afterburner plume and increased IR signature



Engine stealth is another aspect entirely,stuff like making the tailpipe in a slit shape instead of circular,the exhaust itself is cooled,etc.
 

hit&run

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Engine stealth is another aspect entirely,stuff like making the tailpipe in a slit shape instead of circular,the exhaust itself is cooled,etc.

:biggrin2: :biggrin2: :biggrin2:

I wish it was that simple.
 

AbhinavTheBrahmin

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if India had buyed the sukhoi 35mki it Could Have Reverse Engineered it as it did with missile platform now see indias missiles technology is so good
 

Tactical Frog

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1.7 €billion to adapt Rafale to India..... You can imagine this amount is not for just 36 planes. And all the others will come cheaper, as fixed cost already paid with the first batch.
I could not agree any more ! There is no way that IAF stops at 36 Rafale. Either there will be a follow-on-order with up to 36 new jets straight from Merignac, so India gets three squadrons, either India goes for 90 Rafale made in India ( meaning they drop plans to work with Lockeed or Boeing) . But more Rafale will come. Ajai Shukla himself can see them coming !
 

republic_roi97

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I could not agree any more ! There is no way that IAF stops at 36 Rafale. Either there will be a follow-on-order with up to 36 new jets straight from Merignac, so India gets three squadrons, either India goes for 90 Rafale made in India ( meaning they drop plans to work with Lockeed or Boeing) . But more Rafale will come. Ajai Shukla himself can see them coming !
Yup, I am sure that they will buy more (90) Rafales in the future, and the reason for not going with american made F-35 seems pretty obvious that buying it would mean killing AMCA or FGFA, and these projects are something government and military is pretty positive and serious about.
 

AbhinavTheBrahmin

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Yup, I am sure that they will buy more (90) Rafales in the future, and the reason for not going with american made F-35 seems pretty obvious that buying it would mean killing AMCA or FGFA, and these projects are something government and military is pretty positive and serious about.
AMCA Would Take Time My Friend
 

BON PLAN

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Nope it is a common misconception that stealth technology is short live and as radar get more powerful , soon , they will be able to out range weapon engagement envelop , thus renders all money spend on RCS reduction awaste. This impression is inaccurate because any technology that can increase a radar peak power or gain will also benefit a jammers in the same ways. And stealth have a synergy relationship with jamming. The smaller your RCS , the less power you will be needed for your jammer and the less the burn through distance will be.
I didn't say it's only a question of power of Radar. But mainly new kinds of radars : low frequency radar, multistatic radar.
 
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BON PLAN

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Ffs , not this nonsense chart again
1) how exactly is the F-35 not VLO in X band ????
2) why is the Rafale considered stealthy in infrared while F-35 isnt despite the fact that F-135 is a high bypass engine ?
3) Subsonic-transonic-supersonic agility : this have been repeated over and over , but based on exactly what that you concluded Rafale have better agility in all these area ? do you have their respective flight manual or do you base that on the nonsense wingloading comparison without knowing CL value ?, as a matter of fact , you still unable to come up with a video of Rafale turning quicker than F-35 , despite always claiming such superior agility
4) Acceleration : again what exactly is acceleration rate of Rafale ?
5) cockpit visibility : may be you forgot DAS
6) climb rate : how can you deduce that climb rate of Rafale is superior without knowing the climb rate chart of either aircraft ???
7) gun : how exactly is F-35 gun inferior to Rafale gun ?[/QUOTE]

********************ANSWER ******************
1) ??? But it was always said than F35 is less stealthy than F22 (because F22 was never built to be exported ! so better studied on this).
2) Rafale has less power than F35 and is a supercruiser with some external loads when clean F35 is not => Rafale need less thrust than F35, so less IR trace.
3) F35 is beaten by a F16 with external tanks. Rafale beat F16 in all situation. It's enough.
4) F35 is anemic (see trial vs F16). Rafale accelerate just a little bit lower than EF2000 !
5) just call me back when DASS will be totally on use.
6) Rafale climb rate is as acceleration : just a little bit lower than those of EF2000 and SU30.
7) F35 gun door, when opened, induce a rolling bank on the plane ! not easy to fire with accuracy ..... and a 25mm gun has less power effect than a 30mm one.
 

Sam Biswas

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Yup, I am sure that they will buy more (90) Rafales in the future, and the reason for not going with american made F-35 seems pretty obvious that buying it would mean killing AMCA or FGFA, and these projects are something government and military is pretty positive and serious about.

Rafale purchase is nothing but a political move. It was done to please France to get help with NSG and UNSC issues. These jets will not add much to India's defense. These will be outdated before they arrive in India. F-35 is already here like J-31 and AMCA is an illusion and FGFA is up in the air with both of them are at least a decade away. But then, you can argue that that is the way you do business in India. It takes ten year to make a single decision. That means India's military will remain ten years behind all other military in the world. I am sure you believe in "fate". I guess this is India's fate to pay exorbitant amount of money for decades old european weapons. Simply, as a nation you do not have the guts to buy (and risk) cutting edge weapons like USA, Russia or China. Let's be brave and face that facts about India.
 

republic_roi97

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Rafale purchase is nothing but a political move. It was done to please France to get help with NSG and UNSC issues. These jets will not add much to India's defense. These will be outdated before they arrive in India. F-35 is already here like J-31 and AMCA is an illusion and FGFA is up in the air with both of them are at least a decade away. But then, you can argue that that is the way you do business in India. It takes ten year to make a single decision. That means India's military will remain ten years behind all other military in the world. I am sure you believe in "fate". I guess this is India's fate to pay exorbitant amount of money for decades old european weapons. Simply, as a nation you do not have the guts to buy (and risk) cutting edge weapons like USA, Russia or China. Let's be brave and face that facts about India.
That was really pessimistic. Well I am much of an optimist so, I think that AMCA will be there in time. Let us see what happens.
 

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