Know Your 'Rafale'

[akk]

Just an amateur question
several media reports are highlighting bvr capability of rafale, quoting 80km for f16. Do the su30 lack bvr missiles? What's the max bvr capability on su30 missiles? many thanks

 

[hit&run]

And you never will,the Chinese won't divulge anything regarding it's new fighter,keeping your enemies guessing is a great strategy when it comes to conventional capabilities,of course it's nothing espionage can't solve

US especially has been following J-20 closely

USAF pilots believe it's already more than a match for US 4th gen aircraft and could even match the F-22/F-35 in the future,so I don't think Rafale will do good in against the J20

https://news.usni.org/2014/11/05/u-s-pilots-say-new-chinese-stealth-fighter-become-equal-f-22-f-35

When told that this jet is not even operational you went into secret powers argument. Even if one sees its operational time frame targets it looks like a shoddy incubation of a typical fighter jet with that kind of alleged capabilities.

I am sorry even I don't indulge in this ambiguity crap. There is nothing that China has in its inventory that is original or offers superior specifications.

There are many other ways to explain why this jet is nothing but a trendy stealth looking canopy. Chinese tried to copy American jet design that has been carved following certain doctrine to dominate and negate radars. Chinese can copy a design not doctrine. They wanted to design an air superiority stealth fighter but ended up designing a bulky bomber that doesn't even has an engine.

How on earth they can manufacture a world class fighter jet superior to any other nation has on this planet following a doctrine (if it has any) that still doesn't have an engine when we all know stealth jets are made around engines.

If China has become such an enlightened wisdom in making 5th generation jet then why they are buying SU-35 from Russia who obviously obliging to China to let copy the same and access the engine.

It is same like Chinese ACC as they refurbished a casino and presenting it like a war horse when American ACC were fabricated upon certain doctrine to win wars alone.

 

[hit&run]

BTW the link you have posted is full of Chit Chat and many could and would of Zero specifications. They don't see it becoming at par with 5th gen, may be close to 4th Gen with a caveat as Chinese are stealing technology from others. Also they question how organic sensor will support its weapon load. I mean this is just one aspect there are thousands of technologies that make a stealth.

If this read is your bases of saying it will tackle Rafale then I am not going to agree with your POV, respectfully.

Thanks

 

[ashdoc]

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...over-Pakistans-F-16s/articleshow/54491180.cms

this article by times of india about rafale says that india has to deploy 2 sukhois to counter each f 16 because f 16 has superior weapons package of 80 km range air to air missiles . so pakistan is not such an easy competitor to beat . however the article caught me off guard because i was under the impression that sukhoi is equal of f 16

 

[ashdoc]

I'll put my money on the American fighter jets (F-16) any day over those exaggerated Russian (su-35) fighter jets. :biggrin2:

it is sukhoi 30 MKI not sukhoi 35 . your money does not count because your poor knowledge of warfare is clear from the fact that you do not even know the version of sukhoi that india uses .

 

[ashdoc]

Mate, where did I mentioned your country in my comment? I am saying this because your country was also involved in talks with Russia on this plane. But, you didn't get that. I think, the hot topic on the internet was "Could Su-35 Deal Edge Out Rafale in India?. So, you didn't get my point I was referring to global perspective that I would choose American's F-16 over Russian's su-35.

the sukhoi 35 was not even part of MRCA tender---there was no real chance of it edging out rafale .

anyway , you were quoting my post which was about indian sukhois .

 

[sasum]

Ajai Shukla's blog on pitfalls of aquisition of Rafale without sovereign or bank guarantee.
http://www.rediff.com/news/column/f...ld-ruin-modi-and-parrikars-party/20160923.htm

 

[asianobserve]

That's one very expensive 4th gen platform (that's already after discount!):

(fly-away cost)
1. Frame cost for 36 Rafales @ €3.3 billion
2. India specific changes @ €1.7 billion

The only consolation for the IAF is that at least it will get 36 more capable fighters (that what it currently have) in the next 5 years (again, a long delivery period for only 36 jets).

 

[ashdoc]

That's one very expensive 4th gen platform (that's already after discount!):

(fly-away cost)
1. Frame cost for 36 Rafales @ €3.3 billion
2. India specific changes @ €1.7 billion

The only consolation for the IAF is that at least it will get 36 more capable fighters (that what it currently have) in the next 5 years (again, a long delivery period for only 36 jets).

one rafale is equal to 2 F 16s in air to air combat when it is equipped with meteor missiles .

 

[asianobserve]

one rafale is equal to 2 F 16s in air to air combat when it is equipped with meteor missiles .

It must be to justify its very high acquisition cost. But I seriously doubt 1 Rafale can take out 2 F-16s even on purely technical terms.

In fact at €5 billion cost for 36 jets, it is already more expensive than the more capable, a generation ahead 5th gen F-35A.

 

[ashdoc]

Just an amateur question
several media reports are highlighting bvr capability of rafale, quoting 80km for f16. Do the su30 lack bvr missiles? What's the max bvr capability on su30 missiles? many thanks

sukhoi has a huge signature on radar , which makes it an easy target to attack . it has no stealth or no low observable characteristics . on the other hand f 16 has a smaller signature on radar and presents a smaller more difficult target .

f 16 has a superior electronic warfare system also and can beat sukhoi in electronic warfare .

sukhoi has AA 10 Alamo ( NATO name ) and AA 12 Adder ( NATO name ) BVR missiles . adder is active radar homing missile with its own radar ( and hence can target independently ) while alamo is semi active radar homing missile which has to be guided by the sukhoi's radar .

 

[ashdoc]

It must be to justify its very high acquisition cost. But I seriously doubt 1 Rafale can take out 2 F-16s even on purely technical terms.

In fact at €5 billion cost for 36 jets, it is already more expensive than the more capable, a generation ahead 5th gen F-35A.

yes, one rafale can take on 2 F 16s . it has meteor missile with 150 km range as opposed to F 16's 80 km range missiles . rafale also has SPECTRA electronic warfare system which is superior to F 16's electronic warfare system .

 

[vayuu1]

Mate, don't worry, as 2015 was our starting. I agree, we were lacking behind, but now Pakistan’s economy continued to pick up in Fiscal Year 2015 as economic reform progressed and security improved. Inflation markedly declined, and the current deficit narrowed with favorable prices for oil and other commodities. Despite global headwinds, the outlook is for continued moderate growth as structural and macroeconomic reform deepens. Persistence will be required to overcome longstanding structural impediments to investment and enable faster growth, and mate we are embarked firmly on the path of realizing our vision to turn Pakistan into a regional hub connecting the different regions. And also mate, we are open to business and foreign investment and our economy has achieved an impressive turnaround and is poised for rapid growth( Example is CPEC) . As you know why? Because Pakistan’s economy is on an upswing as it pursues the most investor friendly policies in the region. :biggrin2:

Mate, for development, one need to be either a manufacturing hub, or have experience in IT,agar port hi development krwate to saala to Maldives world ki subse developed country hoti, u are on a way to be a Chinese colony, the sooner u realise it the better it is, CPEC by the way is insurance for Chinese to find a route in case meleccha strait gets blocked, In short pak is on its way to be the official heera mandi of China.

Sent from my SM-N900 using Tapatalk

 

[sasum]

[http://www.ptinews.com/news/7902607_Ready-to-manufacture-Rafale-in-India--Dassault-CEO-.html
Eric Trapier says Dassault may consider manufacturing Rafale in India if larger order follows. A simplistic bait.....

 

[Scarface]

When told that this jet is not even operational you went into secret powers argument. Even if one sees its operational time frame targets it looks like a shoddy incubation of a typical fighter jet with that kind of alleged capabilities.

I am sorry even I don't indulge in this ambiguity crap. There is nothing that China has in its inventory that is original or offers superior specifications.

There are many other ways to explain why this jet is nothing but a trendy stealth looking canopy. Chinese tried to copy American jet design that has been carved following certain doctrine to dominate and negate radars. Chinese can copy a design not doctrine. They wanted to design an air superiority stealth fighter but ended up designing a bulky bomber that doesn't even has an engine.

How on earth they can manufacture a world class fighter jet superior to any other nation has on this planet following a doctrine (if it has any) that still doesn't have an engine when we all know stealth jets are made around engines.

If China has become such an enlightened wisdom in making 5th generation jet then why they are buying SU-35 from Russia who obviously obliging to China to let copy the same and access the engine.

It is same like Chinese ACC as they refurbished a casino and presenting it like a war horse when American ACC were fabricated upon certain doctrine to win wars alone.

The secret powers argument isn't some kind of cop out as you are trying to make it look like,it is a reality,China's secrecy regarding it's weapons and weapons projects is well known,

It wasn't pointed out that J-20 isn't operational at all,it was pointed out that the jet was under development which was not true.It's in production stage.

BTW the link you have posted is full of Chit Chat and many could and would of Zero specifications. They don't see it becoming at par with 5th gen, may be close to 4th Gen with a caveat as Chinese are stealing technology from others. Also they question how organic sensor will support its weapon load. I mean this is just one aspect there are thousands of technologies that make a stealth.

If this read is your bases of saying it will tackle Rafale then I am not going to agree with your POV, respectfully.

Thanks

It is supposed to be chit chat,
It's a Q&A with USAF pilots regarding their threat perception of J-20,any non-government authority offering "analysis" of any 5th gen fighter's "specifications" is subject to skepticism itself,because a lot of their capabilities aren't publicized and in China's case barely anything is.

Now if anyone can be expected to know about the J-20s capabilities it has to be the US/USAF,their word isn't good enough for you then fine by me,you can believe what you want to.

But there is a need for clarity regarding what the pilot in the Q&A was saying

The pilot quite clearly expects them to eventually become on par w/ US 5th gen aircraft


“I think they’ll eventually be on par with our fifth gen jets — as they should be, because industrial espionage is alive and well.”

They do believe it's more than a match for the US 4th gen fighters

"The senior U.S. pilot familiar with the F-35 — who has extensive experience flying the Lockheed Martin F-16 Falcon — told USNI News the Chinese jet is now likely more than match for existing fourth generation non stealth American fighters like the Air Force Falcons, Boeing F-15 Eagles and the U.S. Navy’s F/A-18E/F Super Hornet."

You also seem to be cherrypicking from my source,they do question the J-20s capabilities but yet the whole point is they expect it to match their 5th gen aircraft and believe it can already outdo 4th gen ones.

 

[hit&run]

The secret powers argument isn't some kind of cop out as you are trying to make it look like,it is a reality,China's secrecy regarding it's weapons and weapons projects is well known,

Talk of Chinese secrecy is just horse shit, a stupid propaganda. I have told you there is nothing original that China has or there is nothing that they are hiding that no one has. Name one Chinese weapon system that is world class. The onus is on you.

It wasn't pointed out that J-20 isn't operational at all,it was pointed out that the jet was under development which was not true.It's in production stage.

J-20 is not operational and a genuine R&D product will have a good long incubation period before it becomes operational. Chinese has survived this century on hoax and lies. This is just another flying lie which will of course pose a challenge but to declare it as winner is just superfluous if not moronic.

It is supposed to be chit chat,

I stand correct. Chit Chat of that kind where we do not understand the context in which an argument has been made is just waste of time.

I see no visible changes made in doctrine and posturing of P-4 nation and India in a reaction to J-20. They do not give half the fuck about J-20, period.

Of course they will sound alarmist as they are trained not to underestimate the threat. They are trained to plan ahead. They even consider a knife carried by infantry as a lethal entity. Then they exaggerate enemy capabilities to justify their spending. (just adding few more contexts)

You also seem to be cherrypicking from my source,they do question the J-20s capabilities but yet the whole point is they expect it to match their 5th gen aircraft and believe it can already outdo 4th gen ones.

[/QUOTE]

Not at all I simply called you out to prove how J-20 will tackle Rafale but you started shifting the goal post to first ambiguity then to its 4th gen and impending 5th gen capabilities which even subjects in your source doesn't explicitly believe in, period.

 

[Zebra]

[http://www.ptinews.com/news/7902607_Ready-to-manufacture-Rafale-in-India--Dassault-CEO-.html
Eric Trapier says Dassault may consider manufacturing Rafale in India if larger order follows. A simplistic bait.....

Sir, this is not another MMRCA.

36 birds for SFC.

End of story.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

India-specific enhancements of the Rafale Fighter Jet

According to deal, India to get 28 single-seater jets and 8 twin seaters for training

The Rafale deal caters to Indian Air Force's specific needs. The fighter jet will be modified by France to meet the following:

READ MORE:
Rafale|Indian Air Force|France|Fighter Jet

 

[tharun]

India-specific enhancements of the Rafale Fighter Jet

According to deal, India to get 28 single-seater jets and 8 twin seaters for training

READ MORE:
Rafale|Indian Air Force|France|Fighter Jet

WTF..! loitering capability of sukhoi is only 400-550 km.
Is this guy who made had a brain..

 

[akk]

sukhoi has a huge signature on radar , which makes it an easy target to attack . it has no stealth or no low observable characteristics . on the other hand f 16 has a smaller signature on radar and presents a smaller more difficult target .

f 16 has a superior electronic warfare system also and can beat sukhoi in electronic warfare .

sukhoi has AA 10 Alamo ( NATO name ) and AA 12 Adder ( NATO name ) BVR missiles . adder is active radar homing missile with its own radar ( and hence can target independently ) while alamo is semi active radar homing missile which has to be guided by the sukhoi's radar .

Sir can you please suggest.....what's the range of these missiles on su30....In terms of already available....not proposed. Also, the radar range of f16 and su30 to detect each other. thanks