Know Your 'Rafale'

[smestarz]

No it is not, Performance is one thing and price performance ratio is another,
Rafale might be better performing, but Gripen has significant price advantage over Rafale where as Rafale has slight performance advantage over Gripen.

Countries go as per their needs and not as per the best plane avaialble, but for the role, the cost of using and maintaining, etc, THUS OVER ALL PACKAGE, and in that Gripen is better than Raflae.

Rafale was the plane with the best effectiveness in ALL ASPECT. It's not enough?

 

[smestarz]

Did Rafale take part in the first or second gulf war? I guess not. Libya, Iraq or Syrian combats cannot be considered show piece conflicts, These places do not have significant air defence,
Just to make a point, In Syria even the very old Su-24 performed effectively. Would that mean older Su-24 is as good as present day Rafale ?
give it a thought.

These actions give some experience to pilots but these are conflicts against opponents who do not have credible air defence, so these are not really credit worthy actions. For country like France which is out to use and prove its weapons, its important but for the rest.. no.

Rafale made comabt mission over Lybia (were SAM were ready for use), Syria, Irak, afganistan, mali.

F35? over a US desert for trials?

 

[smestarz]

Did Rafale take part in the first or second gulf war? I guess not. Libya, Iraq or Syrian combats cannot be considered show piece conflicts, These places do not have significant air defence,
Just to make a point, In Syria even the very old Su-24 performed effectively. Would that mean older Su-24 is as good as present day Rafale ?
give it a thought.

These actions give some experience to pilots but these are conflicts against opponents who do not have credible air defence, so these are not really credit worthy actions. For country like France which is out to use and prove its weapons, its important but for the rest.. no.

Rafale made comabt mission over Lybia (were SAM were ready for use), Syria, Irak, afganistan, mali.

F35? over a US desert for trials?

 

[smestarz]

Political decision? You mean to say that Sweden can make Switzerland bend over its will?

The report is funny, considering that Swiss speak French and German and that "report" is in English.
Where is the original report.

NO. It's a political decision.
Swiss eval said : Rafale the best effectiveness. Eurofighter may full fil the role as a second choice. Gripen is below the requested perf.

See the report. All is write. It's not my report.

 

[smestarz]

Rafale vs Su-30 BM? should be very interesting, The best of France with one of the top planes of Russia.
Su-30 will shoot the Rafale from BVR and be at the base on time for lunch

The PROBLEM is Rafale has never been involved in any air combat with another Air Force. All Rafale claims are based on its design and tests. India needs fighter jets that can stand up to Chinese and Pak Air Forces and no one is sure only 36 Rafales can do it. Because of extreme high price India will not be able to acquire Rafales in large numbers to counter any shortcomings in a real war. Rafale's claims need to be proven in a war with an Air Force like Russia.

 

[smestarz]

F-22 was not involved in air combat. Hornets have seen combat, not super hornets, Nor Rafale has seen air combat or Eurofighter or Gripen.

Su-30 when the russians took it on the Syrian border, the Turkish F16 did not come out to play

F22 has never been involved in AtoA combat. As SH18. As Eurofighter. As Gripen. As SU30.

 

[smestarz]

Just to remind you, During the MMRCA calculations, few members had raised objections over some of the assumptions related to price since Dassault financial bid was incomplete, These figures that were assumed for sake of calculation were given by NAK Browne.
This is already on record, and a few eyebrows were raised as to why Dassault financial bid was incomplete..

having said that,, did you forget that MMRCAw as scrapped?

Another point to adviice you, first as per the evailation technique, the cheaper planes were eliminated first,
The most expensive planes were the finalist, and among them Rafale was calculated L1 based on figures ASSUMED. because the Dassault financial bid was incomplete. Rather, Dassault should have been disqualified for putting an incomplete financial bid.

Rafale cost less than Eurofighter. A proof? It emerges as L1 in MMRCA contest.

 

[smestarz]

And Gripen has exported in more numbers and countries as compared to Rafale.

ALL IS SAID : Gripen is not the highest performing of the three. It was in fact the poorest one.

And fortunately it is cheaper : it has one sole engine and id the lighter.

 

[PaliwalWarrior]

Rafale cost less than Eurofighter. A proof? It emerges as L1 in MMRCA contest.

Ha-ha that was with key cost data not supplied

 

[BON PLAN]

Ha-ha that was with key cost data not supplied

Ha Ha Ha, that means indians were unable to calculate ?

 

[BON PLAN]

but Gripen has significant price advantage over Rafale where as Rafale has slight performance advantage over Gripen.

I think the truth is : Gripen is slightly less costlier but significantly an under performer than Rafale.

 

[BON PLAN]

Did Rafale take part in the first or second gulf war?

As Eurofighter, SU30, F22, Gripen. I'm not sure about SH18 for the 2nd so called Gulf War (no air opposition during this war).

 

[WolfPack86]

Inter Government Agreement & Offset Contract on Rafale Deal Is Not Yet Finalised : Manohar Parrikar

 

[Sam Biswas]

Rafale vs Su-30 BM? should be very interesting, The best of France with one of the top planes of Russia.
Su-30 will shoot the Rafale from BVR and be at the base on time for lunch

I am certainly not suggesting that France start a war with Russia which is not in the best interest of France. But it will be one way to prove that Rafales can actually fight an air to air combat with a proven jet like Su30 or Su35.

India needs to consider F-35 Lightning, as it is getting better faster and cheaper very quickly. With great relation with US, India should be able to get a deal more easily. It will be a much better long term investment.

 

[BON PLAN]

I am certainly not suggesting that France start a war with Russia which is not in the best interest of France. But it will be one way to prove that Rafales can actually fight an air to air combat with a proven jet like Su30 or Su35.

India needs to consider F-35 Lightning, as it is getting better faster and cheaper very quickly. With great relation with US, India should be able to get a deal more easily. It will be a much better long term investment.

Aren't you american ?
ouuuu.... Yes! you are....

Rafale is a medium fighter. SU30//35 a heavy one. You can imagine a combat in which the SU let the Rafale going out of fuel.... so a SU assured victory

Compare instead Rafale and Mig29/35.

F35 is far too complicated, too specialized (one quality : Stealth. for the rest it's an anemic fighter). Too web conneted with USA (US can disconnect ALIS at every moment). You will never see a F35 in India. A SH18 maybe, a F35 NEVER.

 

[smestarz]

I dont know if you were born this stupid or was it sometimes later you did fall on your head,
But let me try to explain to you

All the companies had to provide SEALED FINANCIAL BID, This financial bid included the price of the plane and the cost of maintenance for the lifetime of the plane, This meant the winner would not be the fighter with the cheapest purchase price; instead the chosen fighter would be the one that was cheaper to buy, fly, maintain and overhaul over its 30-40 year service life. This was a new concept especially for India but that would have given India and IAF with total cost of ownership of the Fleet, Now the financial bid that Dassault had given was incomplete. They had not provided the relevant data. And thus it was not possible to calculate the LCC of the plane to decide the L1.

One indian was particularly very smart, the apparent fixer NAK Browne, He gave the "Data " for Rafale, Two members of the CNC had objections, Usually an incomplete financial bid should go for automatic disaqualification but it was not done so. Anyway, after the misgivings of the Pilatus deal came to light, things are coming to light about the actual involvement of NAK Browne in going to any lengths to fix the deals.

Apparently the French knew they had the fixer in IAF chief and they were smart too to give incomplete financial bid that helped them to get L1. The point is that after Rafale was declared L1, Germany had been on record to offer India at 25% lower price than their MMRCA bid. Now the apparent news when Rafale was declared L1 was that Eurofighter was slightly expensive in LCC and thus Rafale was declared L1. Now Eurofighter would not be 25% more expensive than Rafale else it would not be "slight"

Ha Ha Ha, that means indians were unable to calculate ?

 

[smestarz]

Do you know how many countries use Gripen?
One does not go for the best plane available, one goes for the plane as per their needs.
For example a country like Russia, if it goes for plane like Gripen, it will have to have more squadrons to ensure the security of their country. But for smaller countries.like Thailand, hungary, it makes perfect sense.
Its cheap to buy, fly and maintain, The Swedes are giving excellent support.
If countries were really to go for the best plane then they would go for F-22, Su-30/35, F-15 SE.
Planes like Rafale would not even be in the Frame

I think the truth is : Gripen is slightly less costlier but significantly an under performer than Rafale.

 

[smestarz]

Super Hornet has an actual experience in Combat against Iraqis when they had credible air defence. But then it was second gulf war.. and USA had far more resources there than the Iraqis.
Other planes like Eurofighter, Rafale, Gripen F-22 or Su-30 does not have the same combat experience as Super hornet. As none of the oppositions had a credible air force or air defence, including Libya. Su-30 when it takes to air in Syria, the F-16 flying in Turkey prefer to land and let Su-30 have its own way. So no combat experience there either

As Eurofighter, SU30, F22, Gripen. I'm not sure about SH18 for the 2nd so called Gulf War (no air opposition during this war).

 

[smestarz]

Inter Government Agreement & Offset Contract on Rafale Deal Is Not Yet Finalised : Manohar Parrikar

Nothing new, Everyone knows this except possibly the Rafale lobby

 

[smestarz]

There is another scenario, since Qatar would be having Rafales, it would work out if Iran has Su-30 SM that would ensure the action but without Russia overrunning France.(and it might have to go through real estate of lot of countries to do so.

India needs a single engine plane for making up nos, but the only plane that fits the LESS THAN 50 MILLION A PLANE, bill is Tejas. F-35 is a good plane, but for IAF we have all areas covered for all the roles

For 5th Gen, we are taking the PAKFA/FGFA and AMCA.. and the future single engine 5th - sub 5th Gen plane would be Tejas II.

The possibility might be for the Navy which might be looking at a plane for future, but as for Air force is involved all bases are covered.

I am certainly not suggesting that France start a war with Russia which is not in the best interest of France. But it will be one way to prove that Rafales can actually fight an air to air combat with a proven jet like Su30 or Su35.

India needs to consider F-35 Lightning, as it is getting better faster and cheaper very quickly. With great relation with US, India should be able to get a deal more easily. It will be a much better long term investment.