Know Your 'Rafale'

[asianobserve]

Soon will be 2019 or 2020, when 3F software Block will be tested and stabilized.

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The F-35 does not need to have Block 3F software to go to combat. It can do so using its current 3i software. The 3F is the final software package which will allow the operator to use the full spectrum of F-35 capabilities.

The F-35 Joint Programme Office (JPO) has stabilised a glitch-prone combination of software and hardware called Block 3i, potentially clearing the way for the US Air Force’s first Lightning II combat squadron to declare initial operational capability (IOC) between August and December.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/a...-loaded-with-improved-block-3i-softwa-425098/

Using Block 3i software the F-35 dominated the latest deployment exercise in the US:

Since beginning this process over five years ago with the first F-35s on the ground, we are in the final stages of IOC. These steps focus on training and equipping our personnel. There are no known technical issues today that would prevent us from reaching IOC in our August-December timeframe. The F-35 recently deployed from Hill to Mountain Home where crews, maintenance and support personnel conducted a number of missions. During that deployment, crews attained a 100 percent sortie generation rate with 88 of 88 planned sorties and a 94 percent hit rate with 15 of 16 bombs on target.

These numbers provide a positive indication of where we are when it comes to stability and component performance.

http://www.af.mil/News/ArticleDisplay/tabid/223/Article/809970/acc-f-35-on-track-for-ioc.aspx

The IOC of the F-35A is between August to December this year:

Reports indicated the plane might not reach operational capability until near the end of 2016 due to problems with its onboard software. But Carlisle said fixes have been made and the plane is almost ready to go.

“We’re not quite ready yet, but things are going very well in the program,” he said. “I see it at the front end of that August to December window.”

http://www.airforcetimes.com/story/...-35-ready-fight-isis-if-called-upon/87073038/

 

[Sidd]

I think we should cancel Rafale deal... What they are asking is too much....
1750 crores is what they are asking for one af.
Use this money for Super Sukhoi upgrade.. And produce tejas enmasse.. Even order more Su30MKI with full ToT like what we have for BMPs

 

[smestarz]

I do not know how much you know about defence or defence business
Order means the terms are agreed and first installment is done, I mean you are aware that the payments are not made outright but in installments. Now there are many clauses and based on deviating from the contract the order can be cancelled ... Please do refer to AW 101 helicopter saga .

There is difference between ordered, and exported. Exported means the order is fulfilled.

UAE is islamic country, but India was one of the first to actually test Rafale so extensively along with other planes. India has all sort of climates we have dry desert, we have highest mountains, and weather where it rains a lot.
So. you mean to say that UAE will buy from Muslim country or what exactly are you saying? They will buy IF PAKISTAN TELLS THEM TO BUY? (both are muslim countries)

UAE wants to have systems that can take on Iran. Most of their purchases are iran centric. UAE will not take steps till India plays its cards.. you will see it.


UAE would like commonality with Saudi, but its not a rule for them, Rather most of the arab countries are arming with weapons that can hit Iran with whatever supplier that can provide it, Unfortunately for them Gripen wont have range, Sukhoi wont give to these countries, So only options are Eurofighter and Rafale.

Anyway, you can see the developments as they proceed.

SH-18 has more actual combat experience than Rafale on simulations..actually fought air force which had credible air defence.. did you see the gulf wars?? LIVE??

Unfortunately, Sh-18 and F-35 will not be given to arab countres, not yet at least. The Americans are trying to isolate the Russians by "building bridges" to iran

The 48 are not delivered yet, but are on order, with a Financial wire made. If it is not an order, WHAT IS IT ?

UAE waiting india's decision? It's a joke my friend. You have taken too much sun on your head. UAE are a muslim country. India not.

Gripen? too light. lighter than F16-60.
Eurofighter? When they found Rafale not COMMECIALLY suited, they found after Eurofighter not TECHNICALLY suited. It's dead for EF.
F16-70? and why not a -80? -60 was the last avatar of this prolific familly, but it's the end. Just see all the bulbs and conformal tanks on the -60.... it's the end of this familly.
SH18? A flying brick. UAE will NEVER take such a plane.
F15? SF15? I think UAE don't want to have the same plane than Saudi Arabia.

 

[BON PLAN]

Did the Swiss air force ever get on record and say " we want Rafale? " I would sure be interested to see such official statment or even a recorded comment by Swiss Air force Top brass.

Rafale was the plane with the best effectiveness in ALL ASPECT. It's not enough?

 

[BON PLAN]

F-35 has not been in serious combat nor has Rafale,

Rafale made comabt mission over Lybia (were SAM were ready for use), Syria, Irak, afganistan, mali.

F35? over a US desert for trials?

 

[BON PLAN]

The Swiss chose Gripen over Rafale because the capability difference is so negligible but the price difference is massive. The Rafale is like a very expensive hooker.

NO. It's a political decision.
Swiss eval said : Rafale the best effectiveness. Eurofighter may full fil the role as a second choice. Gripen is below the requested perf.

See the report. All is write. It's not my report.

 

[BON PLAN]

I have no doubt it will soon be tested in the Middle East against ISIS.

??? your doubt? Maybe we will see this precious bird over a pacified Syria in... 5/7 years.

 

[BON PLAN]

The F-35 does not need to have Block 3F software to go to combat. It can do so using its current 3i software. The 3F is the final software package which will allow the operator to use the full spectrum of F-35 capabilities.


https://www.flightglobal.com/news/a...-loaded-with-improved-block-3i-softwa-425098/

Using Block 3i software the F-35 dominated the latest deployment exercise in the US:


http://www.af.mil/News/ArticleDisplay/tabid/223/Article/809970/acc-f-35-on-track-for-ioc.aspx

The IOC of the F-35A is between August to December this year:


http://www.airforcetimes.com/story/...-35-ready-fight-isis-if-called-upon/87073038/

Are you paid by Lockeed Martin ?

 

[gadeshi]

Rafale was the plane with the best effectiveness in ALL ASPECT. It's not enough?

No. Rafale is a compromise between the all roles it performs. So as any multy-roller it does everything but does that some inferior than specialised types unless one role is believed to be a priority.
It is poor interceptor for example due to modest supersonic envelope, but is good subsonic strike, which is a priority for it.
This situation is not good or bad, it's normal because it's physics

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[BON PLAN]

No. Rafale is a compromise between the all roles it performs. So as any multy-roller it does everything but does that some inferior than specialised types unless one role is believed to be a priority.
It is poor interceptor for example due to modest supersonic envelope, but is good subsonic strike, which is a priority for it.
This situation is not good or bad, it's normal because it's physics

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Sure, it can't fly at mach 2.8 or 3.2 like Mig25/31.

As the french staff chief said : Rafale is good to very good in all aspect, but may be not the best in one dedicated role.
It's a plane able to do quite all, from carrier operation to nuclear deterrence in one sole fighter.

But my comment was about SWISS EVAL : it is write Rafale is the best of the 3 in competition in all the fields.

 

[Sam Biswas]

Rafale was the plane with the best effectiveness in ALL ASPECT. It's not enough?

The PROBLEM is Rafale has never been involved in any air combat with another Air Force. All Rafale claims are based on its design and tests. India needs fighter jets that can stand up to Chinese and Pak Air Forces and no one is sure only 36 Rafales can do it. Because of extreme high price India will not be able to acquire Rafales in large numbers to counter any shortcomings in a real war. Rafale's claims need to be proven in a war with an Air Force like Russia.

 

[WolfPack86]

India Set to Miss Another Promise Over Rafale Fighter Jet Deal
India's deal with France to purchase Rafale fighter planes is taking more time than expected as the two sides have yet to reconcile their differences over a number of issues related to the deal.
NEW DELHI (Sputnik) — Manohar Parrikar, India's Defense Minister, says "the negotiations are underway and the inter-government agreement and offset contract areyet to be finalized.

The details, including a transfer of technology through offsets, will emerge after the negotiations are completed."

Replying to a query over the Rafale deal, Manohar Parrikar informed parliamentarians that the parties to the deal will decide whether or not the fighter jets are manufactured locally once negotiations are completed.

However, Parrikar clarified that the Rafale aircraft being procured will have advanced features like active electronically scanned array radar systems, the capacity for mid-air refueling and advanced electronic warfare equipment as part of their design.
Last week, the Defence Acquisition Council (DAC), the top decision-making body within India's Defense Ministry, rejected France's offer to sell 36 Rafale fighters for 8.49 bln USD. Sources say the DAC is seeking a further price reduction. Recently, France also proposed that it would assist India in reviving the unsuccessful Kaveri gas turbine jet engine project and a host of other projects including the manufacturing of fighter jet components, but it would take a final call only after the contract for procurement of Rafale jets was formally signed. According to sources, India has involed the French Embassy in order to expedite the negotiations, which remain mired amid many issues.



On January 26, Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi and visiting French President Francois Hollande suggested in a joint statement that negotiations for the purchase of 36 Rafale medium multi-role combat aircraft were nearly complete. Later, Manohar Parrikar, India's Minister of Defense, set a deadline of June 2016 for the deal. However, the deal still hasn't been announced.
http://sputniknews.com/military/20160719/1043263616/india-france-rafale-promises.html

 

[WolfPack86]

IGA, offset contract on Rafale deal not yet finalised; Govt
New Delhi, Jul 19 (PTI) The government today said the Inter Government Agreement and the offset contract for the multi-billion Euro Rafale fighter jet deal is yet to be finalised.

In a written reply to Rajya Sabha, Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar said details including transfer of technology through offsets will emerge after the negotiations are completed.

"The negotiations are underway and IGA and offset contract are yet to be finalized," he said.
The Minister said 36 aircraft being procured will have advanced features like Advanced Electronically Scanned Array Radar, mid-air refuelling and advanced electronic warfare equipment as part of its design.

According to defence sources, the deal is estimated to be around 7.89 billion Euros.

The price was brought down from nearly 10 billion Euros, as sought initially, due to various reasons, including the discount offered by the French government and reworking of some of the criteria.

The deal comes with the clause of delivering 50 per cent offsets, creating business worth at least 3 billion Euros for smaller Indian companies and creating thousands of new jobs in India through the offsets.

Meanwhile in another reply, Parrikar said 18 more Tejas aircraft in IOC (Initial Operation Clearance) standard are planned for induction by 2018-19, besides the two already inducted.

This would be followed by 20 more aircraft in Final Operation Configuration (FOC) standard, which are planned for induction from year 2019.

The total expenditure incurred on development of Tejas LCA Mk-I aircraft, as on June 30 is Rs 8042.46 crore, he said.

The total initial sanctioned cost for Full Scale Engineering Development (FSED) for LCA was Rs 5489.78 crore which was later escalated to Rs 9121.07 crore.

The indigenous content of LCA is about 70 per cent and import content is about 30 per cent. The aircraft is indigenously designed and developed and the technology for production of this aircraft is available in the country.

LCA Tejas shall be an important part of IAFs fighter aircraft inventory filling up the lightweight category of fighters and shall be effectively used for air defence and for battlefield air strikes, Parrikar said.
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/...ale-deal-not-yet-finalised-govt/1/718601.html

 

[asianobserve]

Are you paid by Lockeed Martin ?

Look who's talking... the man with the unenviable task of defending the most outrageously expensive 4th gen fighter that nobody likes to buy without greasing.

 

[asianobserve]

Rafale made comabt mission over Lybia (were SAM were ready for use), Syria, Irak, afganistan, mali.

F35? over a US desert for trials?

The US have the most realistic dissimilar air warfare training in the World. They even have real Soviet fighters to test their fighters against with, and they invite some of the best air forces in the world to train with and learn from including your Air Force.

France has nothing similar and France cannot field one that would even come close to red Flag in your lifetime and well into your 5th life (of reincarnation).

So even granting that none of the current cutting edged fighters have really been tested in real life air warfare with an evenly matched opponent still the Americans are the most trained in at least the most realistic theoretical warfare scenarios on a regular basis.

 

[asianobserve]

NO. It's a political decision.
Swiss eval said : Rafale the best effectiveness. Eurofighter may full fil the role as a second choice. Gripen is below the requested perf.

See the report. All is write. It's not my report.

You cannot gloss over the reality of the Swiss fighter competition. The Swiss chose Gripen over Rafale because the latter's negligible advantage is disproportionate to their massive price difference.

Switzerland has chosen the Saab Gripen as its new fighter aircraft, in preference to the Dassault Rafale or Eurofighter Typhoon. Defense Minister Ueli Maurier told journalists that the Swedish package including 22 jets is worth $3.4 billion. The Gripen is not the highest performing of the three contenders, he said, but it meets the Swiss requirement and offers the lowest acquisition and maintenance costs. Swiss media earlier reported that the Eurofighter offer was about $4.3 billion, and the Rafale in the middle range between the Typhoon and the Gripen.

http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-n...-effective-gripen-over-rafale-and-eurofighter

So please stop painting your rosy palace in the sky for Rafale.

 

[BON PLAN]

The PROBLEM is Rafale has never been involved in any air combat with another Air Force. All Rafale claims are based on its design and tests. India needs fighter jets that can stand up to Chinese and Pak Air Forces and no one is sure only 36 Rafales can do it. Because of extreme high price India will not be able to acquire Rafales in large numbers to counter any shortcomings in a real war. Rafale's claims need to be proven in a war with an Air Force like Russia.

F22 has never been involved in AtoA combat. As SH18. As Eurofighter. As Gripen. As SU30.

 

[BON PLAN]

Look who's talking... the man with the unenviable task of defending the most outrageously expensive 4th gen fighter that nobody likes to buy without greasing.

Rafale cost less than Eurofighter. A proof? It emerges as L1 in MMRCA contest.

 

[BON PLAN]

The US have the most realistic dissimilar air warfare training in the World. They even have real Soviet fighters to test their fighters against with, and they invite some of the best air forces in the world to train with and learn from including your Air Force.

France has nothing similar and France cannot field one that would even come close to red Flag in your lifetime and well into your 5th life (of reincarnation).

So even granting that none of the current cutting edged fighters have really been tested in real life air warfare with an evenly matched opponent still the Americans are the most trained in at least the most realistic theoretical warfare scenarios on a regular basis.

F35 was involved in a Red flag? NOOOO. against a russian fighter? NOOOO. just against a F16 (with a huge sucess. for F16). against a F15E (strange... not against a F15C !). Against A4

Rafale was for exemple the sole fighter in a MACE exercise to fly free over a S300 SAM batterie.... as it entered alone and first in Lybian air space. Lybia is not Noth Korea, but it's no Luxembourg....

And F22? not to speak of F35 which will not see a battlefild before 2025.

 

[BON PLAN]

You cannot gloss over the reality of the Swiss fighter competition. The Swiss chose Gripen over Rafale because the latter's negligible advantage is disproportionate to their massive price difference.


http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-n...-effective-gripen-over-rafale-and-eurofighter

So please stop painting your rosy palace in the sky for Rafale.

ALL IS SAID : Gripen is not the highest performing of the three. It was in fact the poorest one.

And fortunately it is cheaper : it has one sole engine and id the lighter.