Know Your 'Rafale'

[PaliwalWarrior]

We should buy 400+ f-16

If we get

Engine tech tot &
LM commits to convert tejas into pilotless fighter like it is doing with its f-16 and gives us tot or jv for that

 

[Tactical Frog]

The way I undersand it, the Parliament' s defence panel is losing patience about the MoD ' s reluctance to finalize Rafale deal !
These objections made by Law Ministry are weeks old. That will never stop the process, unless someone at highest level wants to stop the process.

 

[WolfPack86]

Law Ministry Raises Objection over Rafale Fighter Deal
The Indian government has said that the Law ministry has raised some objections over the off-the-shelf purchase of 36 Rafale fighters from France.
"Ministry of Law & Justice have made certain observations and the same will be adequately taken into account while finalizing the Inter-governmental Agreement (IGA), which is still under negotiations," Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar said in a written reply in the Rajya Sabha. However he did not elaborate on the observations.
"Negotiations on the total cost, actual delivery timelines and guarantee period have not been concluded," Parrikar said.
Both the sides also agreed to conclude an Inter-Governmental Agreement (IGA) for supply of the aircraft.
A Negotiating Team has been constituted to negotiate the terms and conditions of the procurement of 36 Rafale jets and recommend a draft agreement. The meetings of the Indian Negotiations Team with the French side are underway.
http://www.indiandefensenews.in/2016/05/law-ministry-raises-objection-over.html

 

[smestarz]

We should buy 400+ f-16

If we get

Engine tech tot &
LM commits to convert tejas into pilotless fighter like it is doing with its f-16 and gives us tot or jv for that

Buying F-16 is bad decision, LCA is same class as F-16 (single engine MRCA)
Better to put all the weight behind LCA and also push for AMCA.
Indigenous would be the way to go

 

[smestarz]

The way I undersand it, the Parliament' s defence panel is losing patience about the MoD ' s reluctance to finalize Rafale deal !
These objections made by Law Ministry are weeks old. That will never stop the process, unless someone at highest level wants to stop the process.

Maybe someone at the top is trying to stop the process.
But like i said King Julien had his hurrahs and then we are at status quo... on and off and on again

 

[smestarz]

I stay, and i'm clearly in favor of Rafale. As IAF and India govt.

Thats ok, accepted and understood, Its your national aircraft

 

[Yumdoot]

indiatoday.intoday.in/story/after-agusta-upas-rafale-deal-under-modi-govts-scanner/1/659860.html

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/...e-deal-under-modi-govts-scanner/1/659860.html

self explanatory heading

 

[WolfPack86]

AgustaWestland Scandal Casts Shadow on Rafale Deal
NEW DELHI — The $8.9 billion deal for the purchase of 36 Rafale aircraft from France will likely be delayed due to a AgustaWestland bribery scandal and a cautious government in India.

"The Ministry of Law and Justice has made certain observations (on the Rafale acquisition) and the same will be taken into account while finalizing the Inter-Governmental Agreement (IGA), which is still under negotiation," Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar told Parliament on May 3.

Parrikar said bilateral negotiations on the Rafale deal have not been finalized.
"We are currently examining the observations made by the Ministry of Law and Justice and no timeline can be set aside," said a Ministry of Defence official, who spoke on condition of anonymity. He would not elaborate on the Ministry of Law and Justice's "observations."

Parliament's Standing Committee on Defence expressed its displeasure over the unconcluded deal: "The committee are unhappy to note that although a considerable time has elapsed, negotiations with France on Rafale (fighter aircraft) could not be taken to a logical end."

Last month, a source at the French Embassy said that "30 percent offsets will be embarked for future military aviation research and development (R&D) programs, and the remaining 20 percents will [be embarked] with Indian [defense] industries making components for Rafale."

French defense companies Safran, Thales and Dassault will provide state-of-the-art technologies in stealth, radar, thrust vectoring for missiles, and materials for electronics and micro-electronics.
India plans to purchase Mica air-to-air missiles, Scalp air-to-ground missiles, Meteor beyond-visual-range missiles and precision-guided munitions for Rafale aircraft. Rafale aircraft for the Indian Air Force (IAF) will carry 10 tons of weaponry.

India also plans to buy all 36 Rafale fighters in fly-away condition. First delivery of the Rafales is expected within 20 months of the contract. France will also provide ten years of maintenance and spares support for Rafale aircraft.

The fighter aircraft strength of IAF is down to 25 squadron (a squadron is equal to 18 aircraft). A strength of 45 squadrons is required by the country.
http://www.defensenews.com/story/de.../agustawestland-rafale-france-india/83960240/

 

[harsh]

Even as Agusta fire rages, government puts UPA’s Rafale deal under scanner
Published May 5, 2016
SOURCE: INDIA TODAY

As the BJP and the Congress lock horns over the AgustaWestland chopper deal, theNarendra Modi government has decided to up the ante by initiating investigation into all the defence deals finalised by the previous UPA government, including the high-profile Rafale jets.

Sources in the Defence Ministry have told India Today that a probe has been ordered into the previous acquisition of Pilatus Aircraft and MMRCA deal (Rafale jet deal) finalised during the Congress-led UPA-2 regime.

A list of officers who served on crucial designations related to the decision making in AW-101 deals has also been given to the Enforcement Directorate for scrutiny.

It was in April last year that Prime Minister Narendra Modi, during his trip to France, hadannounced the decision to acquire 36 Rafale fighter jets off the shelf in view of the critical operational necessity for multi-role combat aircraft for the Indian Air Force.

However, a contract is still to be signed due to the hard price negotiations. The cost of the 36 Rafale fighter jets, based on the the original Request For Proposal (RFP) price while taking into account the foreign exchange and others, comes to about Rs 65,000 crore.

India is bargaining hard to bring down the price to about Rs 59,000 crore.

Meanwhile, the ministry has asked the ED and the CBI to fast-track investigation into AgustaWestland case.

Rajya Sabha witnessed a fiery debate over the VVIP chopper deal on Wednesday. Speaking at the end of a day-long debate, Defence Minister Manihar Parrikar said the ongoing probe will focus on those named in the Italian Court judgment even as he suggested the role of an “invisible hand” in preventing a proper investigation earlier.

The Italian court judgment names Congress president Sonia Gandhi, the then India Air Force chief SP Tyagi, Sonia’s political advisor Ahmad Patel, and others. The Congress has, however, stressed that the judgment does not indict anyone.

Parrikar said there was a “relentless push” by the UPA to go in for the AgustaWestland choppers.

 

[PaliwalWarrior]

Chalo with investigation into defence deals we can forget new deals being signed for at least a couple of years

 

[Tactical Frog]

Chalo with investigation into defence deals we can forget new deals being signed for at least a couple of years

New 36 Rafale IGA is independent from former MMRCA.
Two separate deals !

 

[smestarz]

If anyone wants to know when the deal is signed, then ask after the next elections in 2019

 

[smestarz]

IT seems that the same middle men were also involved in Rafale deal also, and this is from the source. That actually brings the question
a) Was Rafale really the L1 or not?
Since we see how AW101 was fixed, hence there are doubts over the actual status of L1 of Rafale

b) If Dassault did use the help of middlemen (since GoI was going to pay the manufacturer directly and that we dont pay brokers, so who was going to pay the brokers, The brokers were not fixing for free So either the Govt of India would pay and which is not the case, else it has to be from the people who would be getting paid DASSAULT
Thus if Dassault had involved in use of middlemen to fix the deal (and the results) the Dassault should be black listed. And you think that India would buy Rafale from France that is known to be produced by a black listed company? Thats the logic, Though IGA might be independent, but the two points, make them related.

New 36 Rafale IGA is independent from former MMRCA.
Two separate deals !

 

[Tactical Frog]

IT seems that the same middle men were also involved in Rafale deal also, and this is from the source. That actually brings the question
a) Was Rafale really the L1 or not?
Since we see how AW101 was fixed, hence there are doubts over the actual status of L1 of Rafale

b) If Dassault did use the help of middlemen (since GoI was going to pay the manufacturer directly and that we dont pay brokers, so who was going to pay the brokers, The brokers were not fixing for free So either the Govt of India would pay and which is not the case, else it has to be from the people who would be getting paid DASSAULT
Thus if Dassault had involved in use of middlemen to fix the deal (and the results) the Dassault should be black listed. And you think that India would buy Rafale from France that is known to be produced by a black listed company? Thats the logic, Though IGA might be independent, but the two points, make them related.

Dassault did not need to use any middlemen to win MMRCA ... it is no secret IAF wanted Rafale from the very beginning since it thinks Rafale is best suited for Indian requirements. IAF is Dassault' s middleman !

 

[Tactical Frog]

Dassault did not need to use any middlemen to win MMRCA ... it is no secret IAF wanted Rafale from the very beginning since it thinks Rafale is best suited for Indian requirements. IAF is Dassault' s middleman !

Feel free to " blacklist " all of your officers, pilots, and top brass for giving their best informed advice about which plane is best suited for the airforce .. this time I really lost patience

 

[ezsasa]

New 36 Rafale IGA is independent from former MMRCA.
Two separate deals !

Yes, but I also think this is a negotiation tactic.

 

[Zebra]

Dassault did not need to use any middlemen to win MMRCA ... it is no secret IAF wanted Rafale from the very beginning since it thinks Rafale is best suited for Indian requirements. IAF is Dassault' s middleman !

Wrong. Don't spread lies sir.

Rafale failed in Leh test.

And Rafale was out in middle, GoI kept eyes closed and allowed it again .

 

[BON PLAN]

We should buy 400+ f-16

If we get

Engine tech tot &
LM commits to convert tejas into pilotless fighter like it is doing with its f-16 and gives us tot or jv for that

YOU WILL NEVER HAVE ACCESS TO ALL ENGINE TECH. FROM US, RUSSIAN OR FRENCH PARTNER. It's too sensitiv.
You have to built yourself an indigen technology.

 

[BON PLAN]

Rafale failed in Leh test.

Source please. First time I read or heard such a news.

 

[Zebra]

Source please. First time I read or heard such a news.

Only two aircrafts passed it.

Typhoon and Gripen.

Go through MMRCA thread.

It might help.