Know Your 'Rafale'

[BON PLAN]

You should read what he said
"only experienced pilots do it" and so they know when exactly to execute the maneuver
They train all through the years and build up enough knowledge and experience about their plane and how to use it to the best advantage of it. So if a pilot executes and is "nice target" then the pilot is definitely french.

I'm quite sure this manoeuver is NEVER used in combat or even in training like Red Flag !
Or prove it. I can go back to bed, as usual you will not be able to give a sole evidence.

 

[BON PLAN]

Only on ground, if the speed of head-wind is more than speed of forward thrust, does the plane slide backward. While in sky how the plane records -40 knots. Was the plane drifting backwards?

YES. See the Cobra manoeuver : the plane go back. not for 5 minutes of course, but the important thing is to remain stable and handable during these few seconds.
Rafale during test experimented these figures.

 

[Neelkanth]

Mica ' s kill range is much better than 20 km .. @PaliwalWarrior why this anti Rafale crusade please ? Jet too expensive , no TOT, no indigenous production ? France the bad partner compared with mighty Russia ?
Stop running around in circles .

Its more of a political stunt. If the current government says its good to breathe he will hold his breath till he succumbs.

 

[WolfPack86]

Objections to Rafale Fighter Aircraft Deal
As per the India-France Joint Statement issued by the two countries during the Prime Ministers visit to France, Government of India conveyed to the Government of France that in view of the critical operational necessity for Multirole Combat Aircraft for Indian Air Force (IAF), Government of India would like to acquire 36 Rafale jets in fly-away condition. Both the sides also agreed to conclude an Inter-Governmental Agreement (IGA) for supply of the aircraft.

A Negotiating Team has been constituted to negotiate the terms and conditions of the procurement of 36 Rafale jets and recommend a draft agreement. The meetings of the Indian Negotiations Team with the French side are underway.

Ministry of Law & Justice have made certain observations and the same will be adequately taken into account while finalizing the IGA, which is still under negotiations.

This information was given by Defence Minister Shri Manohar Parrikar in a written reply to Shri Harivansh in Rajya Sabha today.
http://www.business-standard.com/ar...ale-fighter-aircraft-deal-116050300468_1.html

 

[WolfPack86]

Negotiating team constituted for procurement of 36 Rafale jets: Parrikar
As per the India-France Joint Statement issued by the two countries during Prime Minister Narendra Modi's visit to France, the Indian government conveyed that in view of the critical operational necessity for Multirole Combat Aircraft for Indian Air Force (IAF), India would like to acquire 36 Rafale jets in fly-away condition.

Both the sides also agreed to conclude an Inter-Governmental Agreement (IGA) for supply of the aircraft.

This development was stated by Defence MinisterManohar Parrikar in a written reply in the Rajya Sabhatoday.

A Negotiating Team has been constituted to negotiate the terms and conditions of the procurement of 36 Rafale jets and recommend a draft agreement and the meetings of the Indian negotiations team with the French side are underway.

Ministry of Law and Justice have made certain observations and the same will be adequately taken into account while finalizing the IGA, which is still under negotiations.
India and France in January signed a Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) for the purchase of Rafale.

According to reports, 36 Rafales will cost a little over Rs 65,000 crore and effort is on to bring down the price to less than Euros Rs 59,000 crore.
http://www.business-standard.com/ar...f-36-rafale-jets-parrikar-116050300563_1.html

 

[Tactical Frog]

So where we are on Rafale deal as we speak? A spoon feeding alert but i am too tired following this thread. Someone kind at heart help.

I am not even talking technical but talking of political fallout if not debacle with an alternate route as obstacle avoidance.

People will raise questions on per unit price of Rafale by totally discarding technical fineness. And why? Because in past even price of cofins have been questiond by paying total disregard to difference in quality. And here you have Rafale with such a hefty price tag that it sounds reeidiculous even to a lay man. Leaving aside its technical comparativness vis-i-vis J-20s and J-31s.

As on tactical side. Let me put a hypothetical senario. France goes to war against USA. And suppose USAF has just F-35s and in same numbers as french has Rafale. Who do you think will come out victorious? A good look at RAF procurement of F-35s despite having EF hints the obvious. Now just think Rafale vs J-20 and J-31s in Indo-China senario.

Wow, France at war with USA ? you should write sci-fi books ! maybe about cheese .. a cheese war.

On a side note, I don't think that RAF choice in favour of F-35 A has much to do with great confidence in the jet. It is a much bigger picture, with Bae heavily involved in the F-35 B design and Royal Navy desperately pushing for F-35 C then B. I am sure RAF loves its Typhoon !

 

[sasum]

There is speculation in Newspapers, Parikkar is inclined to rejoin Goa politics by the year-end. Obviously he finds the the seat of DM too hot & stressful.
When a country last became a Supa Powah with imported hardware ?

 

[harsh]

Will Consider Law Ministry’s Recommendations On Rafale Deal: Manohar Parrikar

« Submarine lacks key weapon systems
Will Consider Law Ministry’s Recommendations On Rafale Deal: Manohar Parrikar
Published May 3, 2016
SOURCE: IANS



Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar today said the law ministry has made certain observations on the Rafale deal, which will be taken into account by the government while signing the deal.According to sources, the law ministry has cautioned the government on some of the clauses in the draft inter-governmental agreement, including a clause on material breach.

The law ministry also suggested that the liability clause should be stringent.

“Ministry of Law and Justice have made certain observations and the same will be adequately taken into account while finalising the IGA (Inter-Governmental Agreement), which is still under negotiations,” Mr Parrikar said in a written reply to the Rajya Sabha.

The deal for purchasing 36 Rafale combat jets in fly-away condition was inked during the prime minister’s visit to France in April last year.

Both the sides also agreed to conclude an Inter-Governmental Agreement (IGA) for supply of the aircraft.

A negotiating team was then constituted to negotiate the terms and conditions of the procurement and recommend a draft agreement. The meetings of the Indian negotiations team with the French side are underway.

Now this is called tear the underwear. Demands are on the rise
The question is how franch is going to save their ass???

 

[smestarz]

Where is King Julien and his Lemur subjects...
apparently the deal is ready to be signed, just a few objections and price are pending, else everything is done. This was more or less what was there by end of last year.. STATUS QUO

Will Consider Law Ministry’s Recommendations On Rafale Deal: Manohar Parrikar

« Submarine lacks key weapon systems
Will Consider Law Ministry’s Recommendations On Rafale Deal: Manohar Parrikar
Published May 3, 2016
SOURCE: IANS



Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar today said the law ministry has made certain observations on the Rafale deal, which will be taken into account by the government while signing the deal.According to sources, the law ministry has cautioned the government on some of the clauses in the draft inter-governmental agreement, including a clause on material breach.

The law ministry also suggested that the liability clause should be stringent.

“Ministry of Law and Justice have made certain observations and the same will be adequately taken into account while finalising the IGA (Inter-Governmental Agreement), which is still under negotiations,” Mr Parrikar said in a written reply to the Rajya Sabha.

The deal for purchasing 36 Rafale combat jets in fly-away condition was inked during the prime minister’s visit to France in April last year.

Both the sides also agreed to conclude an Inter-Governmental Agreement (IGA) for supply of the aircraft.

A negotiating team was then constituted to negotiate the terms and conditions of the procurement and recommend a draft agreement. The meetings of the Indian negotiations team with the French side are underway.

Now this is called tear the underwear. Demands are on the rise
The question is how franch is going to save their ass???

 

[PaliwalWarrior]

No we know thats why they do exercises. And IAF did tests on the aircraft. They would have know all the features of the aircraft before choosing it.



Your Argument doesn't make any sense buddy, you mean to say Israeli AF shouldn't have even tried to fight, let alone win. UK should have given up on Falklands.

Numbers don't win a wars. Never have in history. I gave you a scenario, you didn't try to solve it with given aircraft in IAF inventory, you could have tried to solve it without Rafale. And let me tell you, you could have. Wars are not fought with tech or numbers, but by strategy. But again you gave up the effort itself.

The did bomb Libya with some serious anti-air. And MACE-XII was a simulated exercise in S-300 environment. Only Rafale could perform well. And militaries take their exercises very seriously.

You are two focused on numbers if you saw where we have put our aircraft and how Indian s-300 battery would lock up Pak Airspace you won't be so confident about them.

When you accuse others of not being realistic

You do the same when you say India's s300 has locked up pak airspace

India does not have s300

 

[PaliwalWarrior]

@Gessler @Archer -- both of you are banned on the thread.You can use PM to abuse each other to the fullest. Others do not have any interest in your trash talk.

Next time rather than engaging the troll, just report the posts.

@Gessler is a mod on another forum where the rafale leaning teM of mods have made the forum a PR platform for rafales of course the mods there will have interests in their leanings

But it is no surprise he lost his cool here where not everyone is speaking in favour of rafale deal

 

[PaliwalWarrior]

Hello Moderator,

You ban Archer : it's normal.
You ban Gessler also? He wasn't aggressiv. just arguiing... It's hard.

Sorry you lost your left nut (case)... Er I mean

 

[Yumdoot]

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...afale-deal/articleshow/52094853.cms?prtpage=1

Parliamentary panel raps government for not inking Rafale deal
By PTI | 3 May, 2016, 07.30PM IST


Expressing its unhappiness, the Standing Committee on Defence, which submitted it report to the Lok Sabha, also asked the government to ensure that the IAF achieves it authorised strength of 42 squadrons as against 33 presently.

"The Committee are unhappy to note that although a considerable time has elapsed, negotiations with France on Rafale could not be taken to a logical end," the report said.




.............................................................................................................................................................................





http://www.deccanherald.com/content/544261/rafale-fighter-deal-stuck-says.html#

Rafale fighter deal stuck, says Parrikar
NEW DELHI, May 4, 2016, DHNS:
3 components of deal yet to be finalised

The much-awaited deal to purchase 36 Rafale fighter jets from France has hit the roadblock.

Three crucial components of the multi-billion dollar contract are still to be finalised after Union Law Ministry red-flagged many contentious issues that are yet to be resolved.

“Negotiations on the terms and conditions of the said supply, including total cost, actual delivery timelines and guarantee period have not been concluded,” Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar has informed the Rajya Sabha on Tuesday.

He said India and France agreed to conclude an inter-governmental agreement on the supply of 36 Rafale aircraft.

The defence minister’s statement in Parliament contradicts the India-France joint statement issued after the January summit meeting between Prime Minister Narendra Modi and French President Francois Hollande. In the joint statement, the 2 leaders “welcomed the conclusion of the inter-governmental agreement on the acquisition of 36 Rafale fighter aircraft in flyaway conditions” except for some financial issues, which the leaders hoped would be resolved as soon as possible.

Almost at the same time, the law ministry expressed its concerns on the mega defence deal, which Parrikar admitted tacitly in Parliament.

“The ministry of law and justice has made certain observations and the same will be adequately taken into account while finalising the inter-governmental agreement, which is still under negotiations,” he said, responding to another question.

The liability clauses in the agreement and the supply protocol are learnt to be heavily loaded in favour of the French supplier Dassault Aviation. The government-to-government deal to buy 36 aircraft was announced by Modi, during his visit to France in April 2015.

The earlier process to buy 126 fighters through a global tender was cancelled in August, 2015 as the French company, short-listed in the earlier process, did not obey the terms of the 2007 tender and the commercial bid while negotiating the price.

 

[garg_bharat]

French company, short-listed in the earlier process, did not obey the terms of the 2007 tender and the commercial bid while negotiating the price.

This is a perfect reason to blacklist the company.

But alas a local company can be hauled over coals for the slightest reasons but foreign companies are treated like "maharaja".

 

[PaliwalWarrior]

Maybe they finalised the deal for a total of 360 rafales but
Forget to finalise the deal for 36

;-)

 

[PaliwalWarrior]

Maybe they finalised the deal for a total of 360 rafales but
Forget to finalise the deal for 36

;-)

 

[BON PLAN]

@Gessler is a mod on another forum where the rafale leaning teM of mods have made the forum a PR platform for rafales of course the mods there will have interests in their leanings

But it is no surprise he lost his cool here where not everyone is speaking in favour of rafale deal

I stay, and i'm clearly in favor of Rafale. As IAF and India govt.

 

[BON PLAN]

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...afale-deal/articleshow/52094853.cms?prtpage=1

Parliamentary panel raps government for not inking Rafale deal
By PTI | 3 May, 2016, 07.30PM IST


Expressing its unhappiness, the Standing Committee on Defence, which submitted it report to the Lok Sabha, also asked the government to ensure that the IAF achieves it authorised strength of 42 squadrons as against 33 presently.

"The Committee are unhappy to note that although a considerable time has elapsed, negotiations with France on Rafale could not be taken to a logical end," the report said.




.............................................................................................................................................................................





http://www.deccanherald.com/content/544261/rafale-fighter-deal-stuck-says.html#

Rafale fighter deal stuck, says Parrikar
NEW DELHI, May 4, 2016, DHNS:
3 components of deal yet to be finalised

The much-awaited deal to purchase 36 Rafale fighter jets from France has hit the roadblock.

Three crucial components of the multi-billion dollar contract are still to be finalised after Union Law Ministry red-flagged many contentious issues that are yet to be resolved.

“Negotiations on the terms and conditions of the said supply, including total cost, actual delivery timelines and guarantee period have not been concluded,” Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar has informed the Rajya Sabha on Tuesday.

He said India and France agreed to conclude an inter-governmental agreement on the supply of 36 Rafale aircraft.

The defence minister’s statement in Parliament contradicts the India-France joint statement issued after the January summit meeting between Prime Minister Narendra Modi and French President Francois Hollande. In the joint statement, the 2 leaders “welcomed the conclusion of the inter-governmental agreement on the acquisition of 36 Rafale fighter aircraft in flyaway conditions” except for some financial issues, which the leaders hoped would be resolved as soon as possible.

Almost at the same time, the law ministry expressed its concerns on the mega defence deal, which Parrikar admitted tacitly in Parliament.

“The ministry of law and justice has made certain observations and the same will be adequately taken into account while finalising the inter-governmental agreement, which is still under negotiations,” he said, responding to another question.

The liability clauses in the agreement and the supply protocol are learnt to be heavily loaded in favour of the French supplier Dassault Aviation. The government-to-government deal to buy 36 aircraft was announced by Modi, during his visit to France in April 2015.

The earlier process to buy 126 fighters through a global tender was cancelled in August, 2015 as the French company, short-listed in the earlier process, did not obey the terms of the 2007 tender and the commercial bid while negotiating the price.

Very very old news. 6 to 8 weeks late.....

But I think you are happy with that.... unfortunatly India will bye these 36, and a lot more after....

 

[BON PLAN]

This is a perfect reason to blacklist the company.

But alas a local company can be hauled over coals for the slightest reasons but foreign companies are treated like "maharaja".

bla bla bla.... You only have this kid of old no news to argue ? desesperating !

 

[Yumdoot]

Very very old news. 6 to 8 weeks late.....

But I think you are happy with that.... unfortunatly India will bye these 36, and a lot more after....

I was merely reporting what Defence Minister has said in Parliament yesterday.

Probably somehow you got the wind of It 6 to 8 weeks earlier. With europeans and their acolytes it is common to observe - they live above and beyond the laws of space and time.

I am not for or against Rafale. Its a good plane though not as good as the options we have. On top of that we need money for our home grown products. If we have billions for French product then we should buy only as little as is required and put all the money on Indian products. The LCA development path, the AMCA development path cannot now be sacrificed like the Marut was earlier.

When I say as little as possible, I am agreeing with Indian PM and Indian Defence Minister that 36 is a good figure to take care of IAF needs. What IAF brass wants, which is significantly more then what they need, is something IAF brass should be willing to generate on its own steam.

But the Parliament now knows that even for this 36 (despite the 50% offsets etc.) none of the price, the timelines, the assurances are yet confirmed. Apparently the PM and the DM want the best out of the deal and their definition of best is the one that will work for me too. Not something decided by french people or an ex-congressi MOS.