Know Your 'Rafale'

[BON PLAN]

Israel did make Kfir when France backed out from Mirage III .. Do you know when Lavi was made? or you are going to google for it? By the way, Lavi was made BEFORE RAFALE, Thus in a way Israel made Canard plane and operational before France,,, maybe France copied the idea..

Another time FALSE.

Super Mirage 4000 flown in 1979 :

Do you see the canard wings or do I add 2 sparrow to show it to you?

Lavi first flown in december 1986.
Rafale demonstrator (same status than Lavi) flown in july 1986.

Another try Smerdetarz?

 

[smestarz]

First time I read something about that. So nothing to say.

And you?

You should read then, 4 OSA class missile boats with Styx missiles,

 

[smestarz]

You're a ignorant.
the Charles de Gaulle Carrier can't put under deck more than 18 Rafale and 2 E2C and 2/4 helo. All the rest is on the deck.

Sig !

So, it is matter of space,, that has constrained that some Rafales are kept on top,, So, its like when the air conditioned HANGAR are full, the rest get to be on deck.. And its not that you can add a few acres here and there to CdG...

 

[smestarz]

Of course. J10.

Lavi : View attachment 7867

J10 :View attachment 7868

Sorry,

First time you say something true...

Then if you analyse, Dassault helped on Lavi which as you say had french components,
Lavi the entire project was given to China .. so?
Since it had french parts what did the French do ?
BTW France still sells tech to China,.. you are aware of it yes?
So the point seems to be Israel sells the design to China, France sells technology...

 

[smestarz]

Another time FALSE.

Super Mirage 4000 flown in 1979 :

Do you see the canard wings or do I add 2 sparrow to show it to you?

Lavi first flown in december 1986.
Rafale demonstrator (same status than Lavi) flown in july 1986.

Another try Smerdetarz?

There are few things and it might seem interesting

So the Mirage III template more or less works this way
Mirage III ==> Mirage (some imrpovement and better avionics) ==> Super Mirage 4000 (Twin engined Mirage 2000 with Canards and some improvements) ==> Since Super Mirage 4000 was not purchased so later Dassault just Tweaked the super Mirage 4000 and offered Rafale .. you can see those are same planes just the air take design is different. I mean the French MoD might not be that stupid to notice.

Anyway So we have a timeline, Wonderful

First SAAB makes the Viggen..
First flight 8 February 1967
Introduction 21 June 1971

The French are amazed by the Canards..and say "we should put some"
Arrives twin engine Super Mirage 4000 (which was only at prototype stage, never became operational)

Super Mirage 4000
First flight 9 March 1979 (Wow, it took french 12 years to understand Canards and how they can be used??)
Super Mirage 4000 cancelled because well MoD were not interested.

IAI LAVI
First flight 31 December 1986
It wa cancelled because USA did feel that Israel will not only sell to south Africa but also share technology, and also Israel then being not so financially independent state, such a project would have been exhorbitantly expensive. All in all LAVI for Israel is what HF-73 was for India (politicians deemed it too expensive, and in a way did restrict the ability of the country to produce world class planes)

Rafale demonstrator
First Flight July 1986

So seems the most popular french plane is copy of Swedish plane..and it took france a dozen of years to do so, and almost 2 decades to have an operational plane having canards..

 

[smestarz]

None of your drooling and raving about WWII has anything to do with the Rafale thread.
About Israel, I have a lot of respect for them , but they are not a competitor yet for Rafale or Scorpene subs ...
Last but not the least : we are not feeling beaten about Rafale deal.

No need to feel beaten about Rafale deal yet, I mean we are giving you a very very very... long rope.
When your compartiot talks of SS he should also should remember that it took them 30 days to run over France.
Sure this is Rafale thread and nothing to do with SS, but then your compartiot did sort of bring to this zone, so why dont you reign in your frogs?

 

[smestarz]

I never say our tech is superior, I always say french tech match that of US or russia. But because we are a small country, we can't do everything (awacs ie) and can't have different programm on each segment (we would like to have a light fighter, a médium one and a heavy one, but we can't afford it. SO we chose a medium one, well studied to be completely versatile).

And froom a guy which last avatar was the photo of a SS officer, to receive lesson about knowledge is a little bit hard, my dear sausage eater.

I never heard a frog squimper when beaten .. thats the first time I would say

 

[BON PLAN]

There are few things and it might seem interesting

So the Mirage III template more or less works this way
Mirage III ==> Mirage (some imrpovement and better avionics) ==> Super Mirage 4000 (Twin engined Mirage 2000 with Canards and some improvements) ==> Since Super Mirage 4000 was not purchased so later Dassault just Tweaked the super Mirage 4000 and offered Rafale .. you can see those are same planes just the air take design is different. I mean the French MoD might not be that stupid to notice.

Anyway So we have a timeline, Wonderful

First SAAB makes the Viggen..
First flight 8 February 1967
Introduction 21 June 1971

The French are amazed by the Canards..and say "we should put some"
Arrives twin engine Super Mirage 4000 (which was only at prototype stage, never became operational)

Super Mirage 4000
First flight 9 March 1979 (Wow, it took french 12 years to understand Canards and how they can be used??)
Super Mirage 4000 cancelled because well MoD were not interested.

IAI LAVI
First flight 31 December 1986
It wa cancelled because USA did feel that Israel will not only sell to south Africa but also share technology, and also Israel then being not so financially independent state, such a project would have been exhorbitantly expensive. All in all LAVI for Israel is what HF-73 was for India (politicians deemed it too expensive, and in a way did restrict the ability of the country to produce world class planes)

Rafale demonstrator
First Flight July 1986

So seems the most popular french plane is copy of Swedish plane..and it took france a dozen of years to do so, and almost 2 decades to have an operational plane having canards..

Great success that Viggen. How many sell outside?


Look at this mirage 3 of switzerland....

and before that, another father of Canard on the Mirage 3 Milan

It's hard to you to understand that Dassault is THE specialist of Delta, in all configuration.

 

[smestarz]

Auf wieder sehen Herr Sturban Fuhrer Smerdetarz

Lol French are getting more anxious now that Rafale discussions re going to take too long... I suggest we wait for another 2 years and then buy Russian PAKFA and still the french will be informed ..."oooh la la, we are interested in Rafale, but then I guess it was outdated then and outdated now ..

 

[smestarz]

Great success that Viggen. How many sell outside?


Look at this mirage 3 of switzerland....View attachment 7871


and before that, another father of Canard on the Mirage 3 Milan View attachment 7872View attachment 7873

It's hard to you to understand that Dassault is THE specialist of Delta, in all configuration.

The French only seem to have failed prototypes,,, how many really went operational?
Its like the French expect a medal when their team does a warm up, no matter if they lose the match..
Viggen incidentally sold more than Rafale and the Swedes were not even pushing for the sales that much.
Even India at one time was considering Viggen purchase.

 

[smestarz]

Auf wieder sehen Herr Sturban Fuhrer Smerdetarz

French have problem reading and writing English, German and even French...Whats with that Union jack stapled to you butt, Seems like a British guy owns you.

 

[BON PLAN]

The French only seem to have failed prototypes,,, how many really went operational?
Its like the French expect a medal when their team does a warm up, no matter if they lose the match..
Viggen incidentally sold more than Rafale and the Swedes were not even pushing for the sales that much.
Even India at one time was considering Viggen purchase.

Not important if the Mirage 3+ stand at prototype. It just prove you Dassault lead the Delta world, and invest on it for a very long time and before the others.

So sorry sweden don't push the sale.... too bad ! Result was the plane only fly under swedish flag.
Rafale is only at the beginning of its life.... already 48 exports. French will add a new batch, at least 40. It's sure. And India (yes, india), Malaysia, UAE, Belgium, Canada.... Dassault will win some others contracts.

 

[BON PLAN]

Lol French are getting more anxious now that Rafale discussions re going to take too long... I suggest we wait for another 2 years and then buy Russian PAKFA and still the french will be informed ..."oooh la la, we are interested in Rafale, but then I guess it was outdated then and outdated now ..

PAK FA ? But my little brained Smerdetarz, it will not be ready until 5/7 years !

Have you seen a plane project finished on time in india?

And time after time Rafale evolved.... PESA => AESA (isn't a PESA radar in your loved SU30 ?), Improved OSF, new IR detector (cat's eye), in 2 years new engines and Meteor integration.... active decoys.... DIRCM.... etc ...

 

[Bahamut]

PAK FA ? But my little brained Smerdetarz, it will not be ready until 5/7 years !

Have you seen a plane project finished on time in india?

And time after time Rafale evolved.... PESA => AESA (isn't a PESA radar in your loved SU30 ?), Improved OSF, new IR detector (cat's eye), in 2 years new engines and Meteor integration.... active decoys.... DIRCM.... etc ...

PAK FA is going IOC test and in India it will be in service by 2025 and T 50 is a class apart from Rafale .Yes rafale upgrade are good bit Pak FA is better in sensors.

 

[sorcerer]

France Reproposes 'Attractive' Rafale Deal


NEW DELHI: In a bid to break the ongoing impasse on the Rafale fighter jet deal, a high-level delegation of Indian and French officials met in the South Block on Wednesday afternoon. The Price Negotiation Committee formed to work out modalities on the 36 Rafale warplanes has not been able to conclude its task as it has not been able to strike a compromise.

Thirty-six nuclear-capable Rafale jets will be delivered to India in fly-away condition, fitted with weapon systems, such as array radar, high end beyond-visual-range missiles and defensive weapon systems. The deal will also include a support and maintenance package with the manufacturer, Dassault. The Indo-French High Committee on defence cooperation meeting scheduled for March 9, 10 was chaired by the Defence Secretary G Mohan Kumar. Defence industry, procurement and research technology were the areas that were focussed. The status of several defence deals between the two nations was also discussed, including the Rafale jet and Short Range Surface to Air Missile joint development.

“During the meeting, it was believed that French authorities gave a fresh proposal with amendments to make the Rafale deal more attractive. The Indian side is examining the proposal,” an officer said. According to a top Defence Ministry official privy to the development, India is targeting a cost between `65-68,000 crore (8 billion Euros) for 36 Rafale fighter jets. However, on the other side, Dassault, which manufactures the aircraft has quoted a whopping figure of the nearly 90,000 crore (12 billion Euros).

As a compromise was not reached, the deal could not be inked during French President Hollande’s visit to New Delhi last month during Republic Day celebrations. It only dashed the hopes of the IAF, which is struggling to cope with its depleting fleet strength, but also caused embarrassment to New Delhi as no major announcement was made during the meeting of the top political leadership of both countries. In a joint statement on 25 January, Prime Minister Narendra Modi and French President Hollande had hoped to sort out the financial aspects in ‘couple of days’. Even Dassault Aviation had said it expected a complete agreement in four weeks.


Source>>

 

[Bahamut]

=> Smerdetarz : It's not 5/7 years, it's 9 years before entry in service. (9 = 2025 - 2016).

And be confident in HAL not to catch the planning. As usual.

There will be minor changes in the design of the plane only changes will be in avionics or sensors and there is a list of what the IAF need.How much time do you think took to make Su 30 MKI and Pak FA follows a similar India will field at max after 2-3 after Russian.

 

[smestarz]

Not important if the Mirage 3+ stand at prototype. It just prove you Dassault lead the Delta world, and invest on it for a very long time and before the others.

So sorry sweden don't push the sale.... too bad ! Result was the plane only fly under swedish flag.
Rafale is only at the beginning of its life.... already 48 exports. French will add a new batch, at least 40. It's sure. And India (yes, india), Malaysia, UAE, Belgium, Canada.... Dassault will win some others contracts.

You can keep dreaming french frogs India deal not going to happen,
By the way seems the French came up with "attracttive" package but unfortunately the French do not really seem to understand the game at all.. India does not really want to buy Rafales now... they have just failed. India is eyeing the PAKFA and FGFA because of few things and the main one being MAKE IN INDIA.
So you can dream all you want and have a nice sleep.. by the way, do you remember when rafale was declared L1... how many years back? Keep counting ...

 

[smestarz]

PAK FA ? But my little brained Smerdetarz, it will not be ready until 5/7 years !

Have you seen a plane project finished on time in india?

And time after time Rafale evolved.... PESA => AESA (isn't a PESA radar in your loved SU30 ?), Improved OSF, new IR detector (cat's eye), in 2 years new engines and Meteor integration.... active decoys.... DIRCM.... etc ...

PAKFA will be operational for Russian air force next year, but we are getting new prootypes for our testing which we shall then be suggesting the modifications.. the path will be very same as Su-30 MKI
did you notice that when the deal is actually failing, that time IAF top brass suddenly sees the signs and comes up with statements about MMRCA type of plane... Now the official statements say MMRCA type plane, and less of Rafale being used.. get the signal? We are going to get PAKFA which will be humping Rafale dry Alreaddy Su-30 MKI did it.. then PAKFA can do it even with a blind pilot ... Keep your scrap in France,
By the way, are you owned by an Britisih guy that you always have to show british flag? To ashamed to be french??

 

[smestarz]

PAK FA ? But my little brained Smerdetarz, it will not be ready until 5/7 years !

Have you seen a plane project finished on time in india?

And time after time Rafale evolved.... PESA => AESA (isn't a PESA radar in your loved SU30 ?), Improved OSF, new IR detector (cat's eye), in 2 years new engines and Meteor integration.... active decoys.... DIRCM.... etc ...

You miss the point sweete, even with all that "goodies" Su-30 MKI out performed Rafale..
Whatever the Russians are putting are still good and best part is PRICE, Fraction of price... Already buying rafale has made France almost the next sick man of Europe. So much so that now the french govt guarantees the french banks so that they can loan the money to egypt to buy their planes..
And Egypt are not getting new planes, they are getting planes that are in storage..

 

[smestarz]

=> Smerdetarz : It's not 5/7 years, it's 9 years before entry in service. (9 = 2025 - 2016).

And be confident in HAL not to catch the planning. As usual.

Those days have gone past, and with now HAL set to produce Tejas in numbers, And for you to understand
Français sont chiant leur pantalon

After all no more orders for French planes, Rather Tejas might actually be more attractive to buyers who are eying the Failed french plane..Should be interesting, with the Israeli avionics and maybe future Indian engien...