Know Your 'Rafale'

[smestarz]

Your strategic friend is also selling SU 35 to China ! India could dream of better strategic friends than Russia and USA ... France, Israel , Japan a nice triad. But this being a Rafale thread , I am out of topic.

Su-35 to them PAKFA to us.. Nice no?
Actually, China does not want a war with India. China does not want a war with any country. But at the same time they wont stop bullying other countries on pure strength. French on other hands, they dont have the guts to go to war, having been bailed out in past two by the Brits and Yanks. So the french are happy doing same as what China does, Bullying the smaller African and Middle east countries. When it comes to big boys they do pee their pants as the two wars in past have shown,
We are out of topic, but seems now IAF will start to move away from the whim of Rafail and start to talk of FGFA/PAKFA. This is not a UPA govt , This is different govt with smart defence minister. That reminds me Ask Drian if the Rafale deal is signed with india. 3 years ago he was hopeful that it will be signed in week...

 

[smestarz]

Are you sure Jag will be upgraded? old plane, with poor flying caracteristics (one of my friend was a jag pilot). OK for a new radar, it's quite easy to do. New engines? too costly and difficult to integrate (or you take the same ADOUR in a newer variant).

LCA mk1A : 100 in 2022 ? JUST IMPOSSIBLE. not developped, and made by HAL, with is a turtoise. I'm ready to make a bet on that.

Jaguars are old planes, Older than even the Mirage 2000 but very reliable, They are out bet on Lo level deep strike. This might in a way also be used as Deep strike and limited CAS (with smart weapons)
Honeywell has been selected as the new engine with more power.And the engine fits perfectly..
By the way, when you say poor characteristics thats the french contribution to it

 

[smestarz]

Until russia take crimea, all european country were in a full peace attitude ! (we even sell two war ships).
The russian bear is a wild animal. It change of humour so easily !

And most spare is not all spare. You don't made in india all engine parts for exemple. Sure some very hot crystal blades are not made in india. Sure some very complicated electronic devices for EW, BFW and radar are not made in india. Those are the critical parts.

In war time, in france for exemple, technicians are trained to repair planes with tin iron bottle ! but you can't replace a very dedicated integrated circuit by a hair frisor.

Let me correct you here a bit. Russia took Crimea. If its right or wrong, thats for not us to judge, Historically sometime back Crimea was part of Russia, But as I said that is dfiferent debate. Till now Europe is peaceful. The matter for Ukraine started when USA and NATO started to interfere in Ukraine.Which did affect interest of Russia.
Now the part to correct you. when Ukraine conflict started, still your president Hollande was on record that the two ships will be delivered to Russia. You can check the various news sources. A few months after Russia annexed Crimea still the French stance was same (the ships are going to Russia) but then the Americans brow battled France and then France started sobblng like a girl and told Russia that we cannot give the ships.

Based on how the french have behaved They are easily pushed over by Americans Another matter of reliability. to state is, Before the falkland war. Argentina had signed deal with France for some weapons, Some deliveries were made. But when Falkland war started, france refused to give the Exocet missiles to Argentina that to inspite of having contract. One of the reason being touted by the French is some agreement between France and UK.. So there is one classic example when French have actually refused to deliver inspite there being signed contract and products PAID FOR. Russia till now has never refused spares or weapons to anyone if they have signed the deal. So in a way. Russia is more reliable than french.. I did give examples.

Bear is a wild animal yes, ad it is also aggressive, but its an animal most people Fear and respect.. Bear have lived and survived in the hottest as well as the most cold Arctic. France is like its national bird the cock (chicken).. oh crap, I had Roasted France on my plate last night.

 

[smestarz]

I agree, except for the aerodynamically aspect of Tejas vs M2000, which is very pure and clean (max speed : Mach 2.2+)

Why would anyone want to fly a "clean" plane? The reason we are buying planes is to fly and use them carrying weapons. A plane being fast is good for data and brochures. But what counts more is,
How the plane performs, What is its cost, how cheap is it to use and maintain, How easier it is to maintain among other things. Tejas LCC at comparaitve value for money rate will be much better than Mirage 2000. Hence even value for money for Tejas is much more better than Mirage 2000.

 

[PaliwalWarrior]

Exactly .. $50 million Su 30 MKI service availability - 55%
$80 million Mirage 2000 service availabi - 80 %

that's the reason why IAF loves the western beauties

ahem ...how many here believe the 100% ToT of Su 30 MKI

If you buy rafale at 80 million and sign contract for service & spares at 150 million for 5 years it is no wonder you get availability at 80+%

If you don't keep spares in stock for su30 no wonder the availability is low

 

[PaliwalWarrior]

exactly ... !! The communists are known betrayers

French backed out of commitment to help in kaveri program after getting signed the deal to upgrade mirage at exorbitant to ices

They made trouble in delays and cost increases in scorpene deal

Very reliable friend indeed

 

[PaliwalWarrior]

Stop blaming IAF and Army to save Russian a$$ .. you never know the Smerch and T 90 issue

Why army order t- 90/additional instead of Arjun ?

Army to blame again

 

[PaliwalWarrior]

can you provide any source of 80% service availability figure at the end of this year ..

so 10% of components are yet to be done in India .. then whom we have to blamed .. Russia or local manufacture ..

No one of the above the vendors can't be blamed if you don't place orders RS air don't keep sufficient stocck

 

[Rizvi Khan]

French are trying to squeeze money from us to save their economy. They we're the lowest bidder in the game that's why we selected them but now with all those prices it must be a big NO. 36 rafales ain't good enough it might be hard for the French but that's how the business is done in India. Either you deliver with lowest price or we go with some one else. They acting like there is nothing equal to rafales

 

[smestarz]

If you buy rafale at 80 million and sign contract for service & spares at 150 million for 5 years it is no wonder you get availability at 80+%

If you don't keep spares in stock for su30 no wonder the availability is low

I thik the guy you answered should also check the real facts
$ U50 million Su 30 MKI service availability - 55%
But after the new Defence minster came, he sorted the matter of spares, now the availability rate is more than 60% and expected to reach 75%. Remember, Su-30 MKI is flown roughly 240 hrs per year, which is twice the recommended.

$80 million Mirage 2000 service availabi - 80 %
Updates for him... Mirage 2000 flies just 100-120 hrs a year, Actually Mirage 2000 was inducted before Su-30 MKI and for 4000 hrs usage needed 31 years (say 1984 to 2016) and two planes crashed due to engine failure (reliability of french engines)
Further at one point of time the entire Mirage 2000 was grounded due to spares problem for months. Availability rate then ZERO.

Further, in 31 years of sevice Mirage 2000 flew less than 4000 hrs, where as Su-30 MKI flew approximate 3000 hrs in just 12 years. That does talk a lot about how reliable Su-30 MKI is

 

[SajeevJino]

I thik the guy you answered should also check the real facts
$ U50 million Su 30 MKI service availability - 55%
But after the new Defence minster came, he sorted the matter of spares, now the availability rate is more than 60% and expected to reach 75%. Remember, Su-30 MKI is flown roughly 240 hrs per year, which is twice the recommended.

$80 million Mirage 2000 service availabi - 80 %
Updates for him... Mirage 2000 flies just 100-120 hrs a year, Actually Mirage 2000 was inducted before Su-30 MKI and for 4000 hrs usage needed 31 years (say 1984 to 2016) and two planes crashed due to engine failure (reliability of french engines)
Further at one point of time the entire Mirage 2000 was grounded due to spares problem for months. Availability rate then ZERO.

Further, in 31 years of sevice Mirage 2000 flew less than 4000 hrs, where as Su-30 MKI flew approximate 3000 hrs in just 12 years. That does talk a lot about how reliable Su-30 MKI is

Oaky Mirage 2000 sucks ..not combat capable, didn't performance any mission, IAF faked the highway landing, issued Photo shopped images of Kargil war,

and now all Mirage 2000 grounded due to no spares and unreliable engine ..

meantime Su 30 flying 24x7 conducting CAP close to Loc and LAC

now hands down

 

[SajeevJino]

If you buy rafale at 80 million and sign contract for service & spares at 150 million for 5 years it is no wonder you get availability at 80+%

If you don't keep spares in stock for su30 no wonder the availability is low

upkeep cost of entire Su 30 MKI costs you nearly $500 million per year .. that's not included in the deal unlike the $9 billion Rafale which include MRO

 

[SajeevJino]

French backed out of commitment to help in kaveri program after getting signed the deal to upgrade mirage at exorbitant to ices

They made trouble in delays and cost increases in scorpene deal

Very reliable friend indeed

you never know the Mirage upgrade fiasco ..read it in the mirage 2000 ..pretty old but more better information about the upgrades

 

[SajeevJino]

Why army order t- 90/additional instead of Arjun ?

Army to blame again

absence of Senior members like @sayreakd @Kunal Biswas sir in DFI make you claim anything regard Arjun and T 90 S

go and figure out the MBT thread and Arjun thread.. we once have better western/russian think tanks who participated in Tank threads .. I sure you didn't know that

 

[garg_bharat]

upkeep cost of entire Su 30 MKI costs you nearly $500 million per year .. that's not included in the deal unlike the $9 billion Rafale which include MRO

Lifecycle costs of both su30 and rafale have been submitted by iaf to mod. Rest assured Rafale is much higher.

 

[SajeevJino]

Lifecycle costs of both su30 and rafale have been submitted by iaf to mod. Rest assured Rafale is much higher.

quote the figure with source ..no blah blah words

 

[garg_bharat]

absence of Senior members like @sayreakd @Kunal Biswas sir in DFI make you claim anything regard Arjun and T 90 S

go and figure out the MBT thread and Arjun thread.. we once have better western/russian think tanks who participated in Tank threads .. I sure you didn't know that

What happened to Kunal Biswas.

 

[garg_bharat]

quote the figure with source ..no blah blah words

Cannot quote. Ask the minister if you have doubts.

You are a champion of disinformation. Your posts are full of lies. Who pays you?

 

[smestarz]

Oaky Mirage 2000 sucks ..not combat capable, didn't performance any mission, IAF faked the highway landing, issued Photo shopped images of Kargil war,

and now all Mirage 2000 grounded due to no spares and unreliable engine ..

meantime Su 30 flying 24x7 conducting CAP close to Loc and LAC

now hands down

Few things I would like to tell you Mirage 2000 does not suck yet, but its not a plane that we are happy to get in 2040 and say "wow we can take this to war" thats 25 years from now, And if Mirage 2000 is perfect for war then I am sure we should do same for MiG-21. So as of now Mirage 2000 isworth scrap. Whatever technology it can come up with, it cannot face PAF premier planes F-16 Block 52, PLAAF will be humping it wild

How exactly is landing on highway useful? Dude, Indian cities have more cars than some european countries
Sweden has limitations on land and hence they require it. And yes Swedish are more organised.

Few things we should ask.. why do we need a plane to land on highway? Because it has snag? It can fly to nearest airport or air base. And by the way preparing the highway for plane is not going to be easy
What abt security? Also if the plane lands on highway, what do we do with it? Refuel and rearm there? So from the air base trucks have to be sent to refuel and rearm it. Also for the plane to land, both sides of high way should be blocked

Try to undestand between the lines
IAF did that only to try to show govt the capability of Mirage 2000. so as to try and suggest Govt to get Rafales. By the way, after that how many times did the plane land? And if you see , it was touch and go, F/A-18 have done that on carrier which is almost as wide as highways.

Even Tejas can land on highways. During WW2 planes took off from grounds. It was only publicity stunt by IAF to promote Dassault. nothing else, and it did not work.

By the way, if you think of it. Taking off and landing is stupidity specially in times of war, It is only good as publicyt stunt. IT is same as a guy who cannot swim opting to buy a watch thats 100 m water resistant.

 

[Tactical Frog]

French backed out of commitment to help in kaveri program after getting signed the deal to upgrade mirage at exorbitant to ices

They made trouble in delays and cost increases in scorpene deal

Very reliable friend indeed

The upgraded Mirage 2000 gets an excellent radar giving it better survival chances in a conflict with Pakistan. I am sorry to see that the life of Indian pilots is not worth 40 $ million upgrade.
Kalvari : what the hell is exactly the problem with this sub ... It is looking good on pictures You could be proud of getting Scorpene subs, i never hear any Scorpene bashing from Malaysia or Chili .