Know Your 'Rafale'

[smestarz]

Don't use the brazilian exemple. Brazil is in peace with all its neighbors. India not. And we will see what's happend when Gripen will have an engine shut down over the giant forest...
Rafale is a plane made for war, not for peace time borders operations.

Why not Brazlian example? Whatever India evaluated, we gave the report to Brazil as they had requested. It was then that some Rafale fanboys were confident of 126 planes for India and another few for brazil. but then Brazil went to purchase Gripen. Even then the Rafale fanboys INSISTED that Rafale is cheaper than Gripen, (almost 80 million a piece)

As you said, Rafale is made for war and so is Gripen. Why did french have to design and buy Rafale when their country is in peace? France is not in war with anyone, Nor are UK or Germany or Italy or Spain, or Greece. But in peace time people prepare for war, for the unseen eventuality. Countries like Indonesia have purchased Su-30 and recently at least for few decades Indonesia has not been at war, nor has Malaysia.

Switzerland which has not been in war for a .Century now have evaluated top planes, and were the Rafale fan boys not pasting around fake Swiss evaluation chart? Switzerland does not have a border issue with anyone, so why is swiss evaluation so important?

Also countries like sweden have not fought for century either, but they are known to make some of the best Guns (Bofors). and planes (Gripen)

Seems the French are just looking for good news, if there is a bad news they simply do not want to face it.

Remember one more thing, Brazil is not a walk over, they have their own plane and French were trying to convince the Brazilians to buy their Rafales and they would buy Brazllian plane as part of offset (correct me if I am wrong) Also another point is that India and brazil are both looking for Seat on extended UNSC. So Brazilian example is also important.

 

[smestarz]

Tejas 1A ...... against Rafale? You're a joker man. Your plane is to day at more an acrobatic team plane, not a war fighter.

Ah the French are losing the deal and now the French can see the pens being put in pocket already?
Au Revoir

 

[salute]

OK.
Paki will be very interested in....

again r u paki ???
you want pakis to buy rafales and how pakis gonna pay for that,
suddenly dassault ready to sell rafales for free.

 

[Tactical Frog]

The Brazilians never needed the Rafale to begin with . Rafale is a totally different class than Gripen in terms of range, weapon load, capabilities. They excluded the F/A 18 for the same reason as Rafale. Basically Brazil needs a fighter for sky police, no ennemy to fight anywhere in Amazonia.
Now, let' s see if Saab can deliver with their Gripen NG . They won the competition with no plane to show.

 

[smestarz]

The Brazilians never needed the Rafale to begin with . Rafale is a totally different class than Gripen in terms of range, weapon load, capabilities. They excluded the F/A 18 for the same reason as Rafale. Basically Brazil needs a fighter for sky police, no ennemy to fight anywhere in Amazonia.
Now, let' s see if Saab can deliver with their Gripen NG . They won the competition with no plane to show.

Now the French realise that Brazilians never needed the Rafales? Wow, its a interesting theory considering how the French were elated when Brazil asked india for their report on the MMRCA evaluation.
Also you did mention, BRAZIL NEEDS A FIGHTER FOR SKY POLICING, The famous Swiss evaluation leak did sort of put Rafale as the best plane for SKY POLICING

http://rafalenews.blogspot.in/2012/02/switzerland-evaluation-report-quick.html
The report page...

In brazil there is already scam about price of purchase... that would have been india had India signed the Rafale deal

 

[Tactical Frog]

Don't use the brazilian exemple. Brazil is in peace with all its neighbors. India not. And we will see what's happend when Gripen will have an engine shut down over the giant forest...
Rafale is a plane made for war, not for peace time borders operations.

Yeah, same thing with Canadian wilderness !
In Brazil, Nicolas Sarkozy did try some of his " reality distortion field" , touting that the deal was sealed when then was no trace of a paper ... it is different from India, which has selected Rafale after years of evaluation. Though technically there is just a MoU between the two governments of France and India, there is also a political backing from Narendra Modi himself to get this thing done. Or I am totally mistaken.

 

[BON PLAN]

Why not Brazlian example? Whatever India evaluated, we gave the report to Brazil as they had requested. It was then that some Rafale fanboys were confident of 126 planes for India and another few for brazil. but then Brazil went to purchase Gripen. Even then the Rafale fanboys INSISTED that Rafale is cheaper than Gripen, (almost 80 million a piece)

As you said, Rafale is made for war and so is Gripen. Why did french have to design and buy Rafale when their country is in peace? France is not in war with anyone, Nor are UK or Germany or Italy or Spain, or Greece. But in peace time people prepare for war, for the unseen eventuality. Countries like Indonesia have purchased Su-30 and recently at least for few decades Indonesia has not been at war, nor has Malaysia.

Switzerland which has not been in war for a .Century now have evaluated top planes, and were the Rafale fan boys not pasting around fake Swiss evaluation chart? Switzerland does not have a border issue with anyone, so why is swiss evaluation so important?

Also countries like sweden have not fought for century either, but they are known to make some of the best Guns (Bofors). and planes (Gripen)

Seems the French are just looking for good news, if there is a bad news they simply do not want to face it.

Remember one more thing, Brazil is not a walk over, they have their own plane and French were trying to convince the Brazilians to buy their Rafales and they would buy Brazllian plane as part of offset (correct me if I am wrong) Also another point is that India and brazil are both looking for Seat on extended UNSC. So Brazilian example is also important.

No one ever said Rafale cheaper than Gripen. Heavier, 2 engines.
Switzerland never send a fighter to assist Poland against russian bear, or against Islamists Republic or Mali or.... As Bresil. These country need a fighter able to gesticulate a little on their borders and able to catch a liner when lost. quite no more.

France made war in Lybia, Mali, Syria, Irak. France need a fighter able to deliver nuclear missile. It's not the same initial specifications.

The purchase of a fighter is costly and an political purchase. Even Gripen is too costly for Switzerland it seems...
And France made huge political mistake in Morocco and Switzerland.

 

[BON PLAN]

The Brazilians never needed the Rafale to begin with . Rafale is a totally different class than Gripen in terms of range, weapon load, capabilities. They excluded the F/A 18 for the same reason as Rafale. Basically Brazil needs a fighter for sky police, no ennemy to fight anywhere in Amazonia.
Now, let' s see if Saab can deliver with their Gripen NG . They won the competition with no plane to show.

Mets moi quelques like Mec. Je me trouve ridicule...

 

[BON PLAN]

Ah the French are losing the deal and now the French can see the pens being put in pocket already?
Au Revoir

What is the link with my post?

 

[BON PLAN]

again r u paki ???
you want pakis to buy rafales and how pakis gonna pay for that,
suddenly dassault ready to sell rafales for free.

It was a joke, but you seem to be like Smestarz : without any humour.

 

[BON PLAN]

Why not Brazlian example? Whatever India evaluated, we gave the report to Brazil as they had requested. It was then that some Rafale fanboys were confident of 126 planes for India and another few for brazil. but then Brazil went to purchase Gripen. Even then the Rafale fanboys INSISTED that Rafale is cheaper than Gripen, (almost 80 million a piece)

As you said, Rafale is made for war and so is Gripen. Why did french have to design and buy Rafale when their country is in peace? France is not in war with anyone, Nor are UK or Germany or Italy or Spain, or Greece. But in peace time people prepare for war, for the unseen eventuality. Countries like Indonesia have purchased Su-30 and recently at least for few decades Indonesia has not been at war, nor has Malaysia.

Switzerland which has not been in war for a .Century now have evaluated top planes, and were the Rafale fan boys not pasting around fake Swiss evaluation chart? Switzerland does not have a border issue with anyone, so why is swiss evaluation so important?

Also countries like sweden have not fought for century either, but they are known to make some of the best Guns (Bofors). and planes (Gripen)

Seems the French are just looking for good news, if there is a bad news they simply do not want to face it.

Remember one more thing, Brazil is not a walk over, they have their own plane and French were trying to convince the Brazilians to buy their Rafales and they would buy Brazllian plane as part of offset (correct me if I am wrong) Also another point is that India and brazil are both looking for Seat on extended UNSC. So Brazilian example is also important.

Swiss Eval is so important because it's one of the sole publicly available !
Indian eval, with results not formaly known (only information was EF and Rafale fullfilled the best the requirement) is known to be one of the more demanding and fair.
EF : 1/2
Rafale : 2/2

In all technical assessments, Rafale was first or nearly (sole exception : in Netherland where a paper F35 received 0,02 pt lore than Rrafale. And we know where F35 is today....). Even in South Korea....

Quality has a price.

 

[Tactical Frog]

Now the French realise that Brazilians never needed the Rafales? Wow, its a interesting theory considering how the French were elated when Brazil asked india for their report on the MMRCA evaluation.
Also you did mention, BRAZIL NEEDS A FIGHTER FOR SKY POLICING, The famous Swiss evaluation leak did sort of put Rafale as the best plane for SKY POLICING

http://rafalenews.blogspot.in/2012/02/switzerland-evaluation-report-quick.html
The report page...

In brazil there is already scam about price of purchase... that would have been india had India signed the Rafale deal

Heh, you can always try to persuade Brazilians they need the Rafale nobody gets hurt.
And yes, Rafale too is the best for sky plolicing. It is just more expensive than Gripen, and for good reasons, like having two engines !
Check our Rafale and M2000 intercepting that russian bird few days ago :
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cbz7ZKLW0AA3Bb5?format=pjpg&name=large

 

[Immanuel]

Rafale deal by all means is virtually dead in the water, give it a couple more months, if Dassult comes to its senses, it will oblige else they will loose this deal which is actually good for India. Funny how the Raffy fan boys keep talking like we are cornered, if anything France and Dassult is cornered, the way this deal concludes will set the tone for how future deals go forth for France and it will end up loosing plety of potential business in India. I hope Dassault doesn't budge on price and this deal is truly put to an end and then we can go on with other procurements. Whether we make Gripen Ng, SH or even the F-35 at home is another matter all together.

 

[BON PLAN]

Rafale deal by all means is virtually dead in the water, give it a couple more months, if Dassult comes to its senses, it will oblige else they will loose this deal which is actually good for India. Funny how the Raffy fan boys keep talking like we are cornered, if anything France and Dassult is cornered, the way this deal concludes will set the tone for how future deals go forth for France and it will end up loosing plety of potential business in India. I hope Dassault doesn't budge on price and this deal is truly put to an end and then we can go on with other procurements. Whether we make Gripen Ng, SH or even the F-35 at home is another matter all together.

What is sure is that Dassault will never sell with loss. The product is not cheap, but its perf are high.
All is said.

If Rafale is too costly for india, OK. This plane was made for France. France air force is very happy with, and if some others need it and can afford it, perfect. Egype and Qatar made this choice also.

And If Dassault and French Govt were link stronger, we would have sell it to Morocco and Switzerland (but in Switzerland they would have say no to it as they say no to Gripen).

 

[smestarz]

Yeah, same thing with Canadian wilderness !
In Brazil, Nicolas Sarkozy did try some of his " reality distortion field" , touting that the deal was sealed when then was no trace of a paper ... it is different from India, which has selected Rafale after years of evaluation. Though technically there is just a MoU between the two governments of France and India, there is also a political backing from Narendra Modi himself to get this thing done. Or I am totally mistaken.

You are totally mistaken, Modi is from Gujarat, they are the best businessmen, and so, he will want the best price or long term benefit, and both are not forthcoming from france

 

[salute]

You are totally mistaken, Modi is from Gujarat, they are the best businessmen, and so, he will want the best price or long term benefit, and both are not forthcoming from france

@Tactical Frog

set time 7:12,


.......................................................................................

 

[smestarz]

What is sure is that Dassault will never sell with loss. The product is not cheap, but its perf are high.
All is said.

If Rafale is too costly for india, OK. This plane was made for France. France air force is very happy with, and if some others need it and can afford it, perfect. Egype and Qatar made this choice also.

And If Dassault and French Govt were link stronger, we would have sell it to Morocco and Switzerland (but in Switzerland they would have say no to it as they say no to Gripen).

France expects Indians to buy at exorbitant price all in the name of being reliable partner
India wants to buy Rafale at Su-30 MKI price + some premium for the various advantages in maintenance
Dassault might not sell at loss, but here France has to make a decisioon would it subsidize Rafale as per indian price

 

[smestarz]

What is the link with my post?

Link? no more Rafale for IAF, Thats the nice clean dotted line

 

[smestarz]

Swiss Eval is so important because it's one of the sole publicly available !
Indian eval, with results not formaly known (only information was EF and Rafale fullfilled the best the requirement) is known to be one of the more demanding and fair.
EF : 1/2
Rafale : 2/2

In all technical assessments, Rafale was first or nearly (sole exception : in Netherland where a paper F35 received 0,02 pt lore than Rrafale. And we know where F35 is today....). Even in South Korea....

Quality has a price.

Switzerland has two official languages as I know, German and French, Why would they publish that report in English?

Indan evaluation: Both EF and Rafale were declared fulfilling the requirement of IAF, but Rafale was declared L1 but some members of the CNC did point out that Dassault bid was incomplete and lot of assumtopns were made and the data tfor assumption was given by NAK Browne (who else but the Crook IAF chief)

If you compare most planes, F-35, F/A-18, F-16, each of them has bigger order book than Rafale, even Eurofighter and Gripen. So everyone is giving the hint to the French. The best plane of france is only needed in France, for the rest of the world there are options that do not suck them dry.

 

[BON PLAN]

France expects Indians to buy at exorbitant price all in the name of being reliable partner
India wants to buy Rafale at Su-30 MKI price + some premium for the various advantages in maintenance
Dassault might not sell at loss, but here France has to make a decisioon would it subsidize Rafale as per indian price

It seems (on another forum) that price for these 36 was agreed, but that now indians want a uprated/updated engine, avionic modifications, add of some weapons, and ask for some support price. The Pb is that package has a cost, and it's not the same to divide this cost by 36 or by.... 126 !