Know Your 'Rafale'

BON PLAN

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Which half?

Let us do the Maths, Total Rafale produced till now ... 141, out of which
AdlA has 91 planes in service
Marine have 44,

Total Mirage 2000 produced for FRANCE

2000C Single-seat fighter 124
Updated to 2000-5F specs 37

2000D Two-seat conventional strike 86
2000N Two-seat nuclear strike 75
2000B Two-seater with 2000C kit 30
Total 315

So which half of the French fleet are you talking about?

Miarage 2000 315 planes vs Rafales 91 /141,

Rather Mirage 2000 outnumber Rafales by ratio of 1: 2 or 1: 3 not really half but Rafale is 1/3rd or maybe 1/4th of the force depending on you take 91 or 141, AND NOT HALF.. you need to get the facts correct.
You do maths with old, very old datas.
To day there is only one squad of M2000 C on duty.
Less than 30 Mirage 2000-5 on duty.
Only 60 M2000D (others on long term storage), and on these 60 only 45 to 55 to be modernized. There are less than 30 x M2000N yet in the force.


You add ALL the Mirage 2000 made, but not all are in service today..... Basic to understand no?
 

BON PLAN

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Whatever you described about SPECTRA same is what DASS does, and thats what I am trying to tell you. SPECTRA is nothing wonderful its just Fusion of the various sub systems Receivers and Jammers
NO. You always forget it can avoid or at least reduce range of acquisition.
 

smestarz

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A quick look at wikipedia gives the following figures for the French Air Force : 124 Mirage 2000 , 95 Rafale.

Not that wiki is flawless but it can' t be very far from reality.

You need to get the facts correct !
Funny as it seems I did take the number from Wikipedia and guess you only took the numbers 124 from fighter section, Total Mirage operational by France - 315

2000C Single-seat fighter 124
Updated to 2000-5F specs 37
2000D Two-seat conventional strike 86
2000N Two-seat nuclear strike 75
2000B Two-seater with 2000C kit 30
Total 315


124 are just 2000C (single seat fighters )
37 are updated to Mirage 2000 5F
86 are Mirage 2000D
75 Miarage 2000N and
30 Mirage 2000B with 2000C kits,
TOTAL = 315 MIRAGE 2000 OF ALL VERSIONS IN USE IN ADLA

Are you saying that the nuclear strike and those in strike sqaudrons do not count?
I mean you really need to read thoroughly and understand what it says before you come up with such laughable remarks. Do read Wikipedia again, its unchanged.
 

smestarz

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Russia and India are reviewing the costs of the T-50 !

India and Russia have agreed to a cost reduction in the manufacture of the future fifth generation fighter Sukhoi T-50 PAK-FA. This new agreement was finalized during the visit to Moscow, Indian Prime Minister Narendra last December.

The cost-sharing:

Both partners will invest the equivalent of $ 4 billion over the next seven years, including $ 2 billion each for the first year and the remainder evenly distributed over the next six years. The total development cost is now estimated at $ 10 billion, compared with 12 billion previously announced.

Hindustan Aeronautics (HAL) will participate in 25% of the work and the Indian electronics company Bharat Electronics will increase its stake of around 10% to 20%. Furthermore, we learn that Indian companies will manage the replacement of the Russian avionics, including missions and navigation systems, computers and display and management systems, as well as self-protection systems for the export version of the T-50, which will be significantly different from the version for India and Russia.

The Indian Air Force plans to acquire 250 Sukhoi T-50. For its part, the Russian Air Force will receive its first aircraft next year and have a first batch of 55 T-50 into service in 2020 (It was 2016 2 years ago).

Recall :

The PAK -FA project originated in the 1990s, when Russia decided to launch two programs in order to replace the MiG-29 and Su-27 . One was a heavy jet , the other a light single engine . The first project will create the Sukhoi S-37 " Berkut " and the other the MiG 1.44.

Sukhoi will ultimately be chosen based on their demonstration April 26, 2002 , ousting MiG . This is the launch of the PAK -FA program. India has become a 50% financial partner and brings experience in the field of information technology and composite materials. The aircraft will also have an OSF and a data fusion. The engine chosen is the NPO Saturn 117S 14.5 tons of thrust .

Source : Avia News.

For the moment, PAKFA is just an acrobatic plane, without the most interessant : an armament system. And what about the final engine....
This is the latest development as per you? Let us look at the bright side here
Rafale deal which many of the french experts are saying that it will be signed soon, since 2012, its still there, The only thing that has changed was the RFP was cancelled and Modi opted for G2G way without Tot, but apparently the deal is going nowhere, Hollande went back happy with the IGA, but then the prices are not decided, The price as expert say that are differet by about 4 billion dollars. the difference is roughly 111 million dollars in price, and in this price w can produce 3 Tejas. 3 Tejas just in the difference of price, Imagine what the price might be.. So Rafale deal is not happening. PAKFA being a never Gen plane shall happen soon, Russians do not have the money to buy and use the PAKFA they prefer to focus on Su-35 still and so automatically India becomes the most important customer.. We love attention you see.
 

smestarz

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Stupid answer.
In this case British did rule some parts of India.... just to remember.
Brtish ruled most part of India, but you to fly British flag now, seems pretty embarassing, like you just rolled over
Reminds me of WW2,
 

smestarz

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You do maths with old, very old datas.
To day there is only one squad of M2000 C on duty.
Less than 30 Mirage 2000-5 on duty.
Only 60 M2000D (others on long term storage), and on these 60 only 45 to 55 to be modernized. There are less than 30 x M2000N yet in the force.


You add ALL the Mirage 2000 made, but not all are in service today..... Basic to understand no?
What you have put forth is a project sheet, and its from 2010 to 2025, when exactly was this sheet made?
Even as per this sheet, Rafales are less than 100 and Mirage 2000 more than 200... you can do the maths
 

smestarz

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YES ! 24 hours a year..... LOL
You are more stupid than I thought, you cannot see the typo? In the previous posts I did mention 240 hrs a year is what Su-30 MKI flies where as recommended is just half of it 120 hrs.. Let me not come at your mistakes, I might have to take you to school
 

smestarz

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AH AH AH !!!!

In UAE and in Mali, sure Rafale are stored in conditionned Hangars ....

Sorry, I don't see them (the famous hangars) on the deck of Charles de Gaulle carrier.

Funny puppet you are.
In UAE they have air conditioned hangars,

Also France still uses Super Etendard which has one of the most pathetic safety record.
CDG has max compliment of 40 planes. its not big as american carrier, and now imagine the carrier also operates more than half nos of Super etendards
E-2C Hawkeyes and also helicopters.
So out of the max compliment of 40 that would leave not more than 15 Rafales. So where are the other 29 ?
STORAGE ..

Did you see the Hangar/lower deck of CdG?
http://www.jeffhead.com/worldwideaircraftcarriers/degaulle-05.jpg

Here is how it looks
 

BON PLAN

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Funny as it seems I did take the number from Wikipedia and guess you only took the numbers 124 from fighter section, Total Mirage operational by France - 315

2000C Single-seat fighter 124
Updated to 2000-5F specs 37
2000D Two-seat conventional strike 86
2000N Two-seat nuclear strike 75
2000B Two-seater with 2000C kit 30
Total 315


124 are just 2000C (single seat fighters )
37 are updated to Mirage 2000 5F
86 are Mirage 2000D
75 Miarage 2000N and
30 Mirage 2000B with 2000C kits,
TOTAL = 315 MIRAGE 2000 OF ALL VERSIONS IN USE IN ADLA

Are you saying that the nuclear strike and those in strike sqaudrons do not count?
I mean you really need to read thoroughly and understand what it says before you come up with such laughable remarks. Do read Wikipedia again, its unchanged.
You just forget one thing : Tactical Grog and me are french. So we know french army and materials a little bit more than you.
In fact, if your only source is Wikipedia..... not surprinsing you say such false effirmation.
 

BON PLAN

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This is the latest development as per you? Let us look at the bright side here
Rafale deal which many of the french experts are saying that it will be signed soon, since 2012, its still there, The only thing that has changed was the RFP was cancelled and Modi opted for G2G way without Tot, but apparently the deal is going nowhere, Hollande went back happy with the IGA, but then the prices are not decided, The price as expert say that are differet by about 4 billion dollars. the difference is roughly 111 million dollars in price, and in this price w can produce 3 Tejas. 3 Tejas just in the difference of price, Imagine what the price might be.. So Rafale deal is not happening. PAKFA being a never Gen plane shall happen soon, Russians do not have the money to buy and use the PAKFA they prefer to focus on Su-35 still and so automatically India becomes the most important customer.. We love attention you see.
As often, You and I don't know the detail of such a deal. And specially the support package..For one year? for 5 years? for 10 years.... how many bases to equip? What new weapons to integrate? ....
 

BON PLAN

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What you have put forth is a project sheet, and its from 2010 to 2025, when exactly was this sheet made?
Even as per this sheet, Rafales are less than 100 and Mirage 2000 more than 200... you can do the maths
At least I have a sheet to show..... It cames from French Senat.

You have not sheet to explain your say. Just... shit !
 

BON PLAN

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In UAE they have air conditioned hangars,

Also France still uses Super Etendard which has one of the most pathetic safety record.
CDG has max compliment of 40 planes. its not big as american carrier, and now imagine the carrier also operates more than half nos of Super etendards
E-2C Hawkeyes and also helicopters.
So out of the max compliment of 40 that would leave not more than 15 Rafales. So where are the other 29 ?
STORAGE ..

Did you see the Hangar/lower deck of CdG?
http://www.jeffhead.com/worldwideaircraftcarriers/degaulle-05.jpg

Here is how it looks
upload_2016-2-16_8-35-35.jpeg




Yeah.... A lot of conditioned shelter !!!

For the rest : totally out of subject. You are so deseperate not to be right you speak about quite everything...
At least France has a nuclear carrier !

Funny boy !!!!
 

smestarz

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You just forget one thing : Tactical Grog and me are french. So we know french army and materials a little bit more than you.
In fact, if your only source is Wikipedia..... not surprinsing you say such false effirmation.
Do you know the english call French as Froggies ? That being said. Being French does not really qualify one about what they know about defence and things. Being Indian does not mean that all Indians know about the true capability of Tejas, and being French does not qualify you to be an expert of what happens in french defence. By the way, we are talking of Air force and not French Army,
Funnily enough IT WAS YOU WHO BROUGHT UP WIKIPEDIA IN YOUR POST
http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/threads/know-your-rafale.32861/page-73#post-1134833

What you had said and I quote
A quick look at wikipedia gives the following figures for the French Air Force : 124 Mirage 2000 , 95 Rafale.
Not that wiki is flawless but it can' t be very far from reality.

So what was "not very far from reality" a few hours ago has suddenly become false estimation?

Hilarious, you either say one thing or other, Seems like you got trapped in your own stupidity.
You quote 124 planes for Mirage 2000C and quote wiki and then you endorse wiki saying that its not far from reality (which means quite correct) and then when I point out the total Miarge 2000 in French service being 315 also quoted by Wikipedia the estimation is False?

Actually this is the problem of French, you sort of build a hype about something being wonderful etc etc, as mostly the users are your own forces, but when the others point flaws you resort to "we are french and we know more about our product than others, and others are just lying.. blah blah blah" No wonder people have doubts about the capability of Rafale and also the over rated spectra.

Calling my Mutt a "Alsatian slayer" is not going to make it powerful, it will be just over rated, Very much like Rafale, its just like a common mutt, but since its Mutt from France the French believe its the best mutt around and see pride even in its dog colar..

So, next time when you quote some source, make sure you read it,

It seems like the season for endorsing something and then taking U-turn already started. The french have a lead on that.
 

smestarz

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View attachment 7721




Yeah.... A lot of conditioned shelter !!!

For the rest : totally out of subject. You are so deseperate not to be right you speak about quite everything...
At least France has a nuclear carrier !

Funny boy !!!!
Maybe you should see all the pictures clearly. Two of the picture shows a lot of Arab guys near the plane, and from their attire, I do not think they are going to sit in the cockpit and fly the plane, Also see the big plane very close in the background? That is picture of an air show. But its definitely of an air base which is "in action"
One of the picture is from the carrier, If you know about the forrces you know that many of the planes are on the deck for "ready to fly" status. And if they are in the hangar they take a lot of time to be sent up by the lift and ready to fly. So there are always planes ready to fly..
 

smestarz

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At least I have a sheet to show..... It cames from French Senat.

You have not sheet to explain your say. Just... shit !
IT is just projected sheet, there are lot available, but then you did contradict yourself, Apparently it seems that the Mirages are not being taken out from Combat service as the Senate would like to, and in terrms of cost cutting, it makes more sense to fly single engine mirages than twin engine Rafales..Food for thought
 

Tactical Frog

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Funny as it seems I did take the number from Wikipedia and guess you only took the numbers 124 from fighter section, Total Mirage operational by France - 315

2000C Single-seat fighter 124
Updated to 2000-5F specs 37
2000D Two-seat conventional strike 86
2000N Two-seat nuclear strike 75
2000B Two-seater with 2000C kit 30
Total 315


124 are just 2000C (single seat fighters )
37 are updated to Mirage 2000 5F
86 are Mirage 2000D
75 Miarage 2000N and
30 Mirage 2000B with 2000C kits,
TOTAL = 315 MIRAGE 2000 OF ALL VERSIONS IN USE IN ADLA

Are you saying that the nuclear strike and those in strike sqaudrons do not count?
I mean you really need to read thoroughly and understand what it says before you come up with such laughable remarks. Do read Wikipedia again, its unchanged.
Man. Wikipedia says there are only 124 Mirage 2000 in active service within the French Air Force. 84 of them them being Mirage 2000 D/N, 40 being Mirage 2000 B/C. Everyone can see it . I am starting to question your ability to read thoroughly.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Air_Force#Aircraft_inventory
 
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BON PLAN

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Do you know the english call French as Froggies ? That being said. Being French does not really qualify one about what they know about defence and things. Being Indian does not mean that all Indians know about the true capability of Tejas, and being French does not qualify you to be an expert of what happens in french defence. By the way, we are talking of Air force and not French Army,
Funnily enough IT WAS YOU WHO BROUGHT UP WIKIPEDIA IN YOUR POST
Yes, I know we are calling Froggies.... But do YOU know why ?

You made a confusion between me and Tactical Frog... It's because you are angry? Too busy to verify our datas.... ?
And when I used Wikipedia, I know enough in aerospace world not to insert totally false information. As you when you affirmed yesterday there are 315 Mirage 2000 in the FAF to day !
 
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BON PLAN

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Maybe you should see all the pictures clearly. Two of the picture shows a lot of Arab guys near the plane, and from their attire, I do not think they are going to sit in the cockpit and fly the plane, Also see the big plane very close in the background? That is picture of an air show. But its definitely of an air base which is "in action"
One of the picture is from the carrier, If you know about the forrces you know that many of the planes are on the deck for "ready to fly" status. And if they are in the hangar they take a lot of time to be sent up by the lift and ready to fly. So there are always planes ready to fly..
These Rafale came flying on these arabs field, stay canopy open at sun, and came back flying. All is said.

Just to remember : Dassault made jet fighters until 65 years nearly. And jet affair also. DA main customers are arab country for the first, US for the second.
Do you really think these customers continue to buy Dassault planes if they can't stand at sun ??? Are you mad enough not to understand that ?
 

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