Know Your 'Rafale'

[Immanuel]

Source? Only bla bla....
After encounters between Rafale and MKI, no such news.
And if MKI is so interesting (powerfull, cheap, able in AtoA and AtoG....) why changing ?

No body is changing, we are ordering more at least 40 for now. As for sources, the French only publish biased news about exchanges when they got some kills to back it up. But in the case of Brazil and India they are all mum because they got their asses hand to them by MKIs and F-4s.

 

[Immanuel]

only a german cow can say that.

Well a German cow is far more efficient, the French cows are too busy with labor strikes

 

[BON PLAN]

Well a German cow is far more efficient, the French cows are too busy with labor strikes

Not totally false !
.

 

[halloweene]

MKI rated for 6000 hrs, Rafale the same.

not at all. at least 8000 h and prolly much more

 

[halloweene]

Well a German cow is far more efficient, the French cows are too busy with labor strikes

Do not be rude/racist please yo are killing this thread with such assumptions

 

[Tactical Frog]

The more I hear about F-35, the more I feel pity for the US Air Force. Latest status report is just nightmarish. The poor thing needs to fly with weapon bay wide opened ... just to cool down.
"Between 5,000 and 25,000 feet in the air and at speeds between around 575 and 700 miles per hour, pilots cannot keep the plane’s weapon bay closed for more than 10 minutes at a time for fear of overheating the aircraft. With the doors open, the F-35 is no longer stealthy."
http://warisboring.com/articles/the-f-35-is-still-horribly-broken/

 

[PaliwalWarrior]

Source?
I've no seen or read such information. I don't say it is true or false, but just need some source.

Look at news linksnon this forum

You will get a lot of sources

20 lca mk1 are already ordered
106 lca mk1 a are ordered in September 2015

2-3 back it appears that news have been leakes that 40 more su30mki will be ordered

Iaf has agrees to order 60 fgfa

 

[PaliwalWarrior]

NO.
Rafale 8000 heures and more.
Russian not more than 4000....

The earliest su30mki are inducted in iaf in 2002

They are being flown at 240 hr / yr

The earliest su30mki would have completed 3900-4000 hrs now

So by ur logic they should be retired or replaced

Instead they are just being scheduled for overhaul in next few years

 

[PaliwalWarrior]

No body is changing, we are ordering more at least 40 for now. As for sources, the French only publish biased news about exchanges when they got some kills to back it up. But in the case of Brazil and India they are all mum because they got their asses hand to them by MKIs and F-4s.

Hell the french don't even play in the exercises for fear of being whacked

They just try to collect elint to upgrade their database

 

[smestarz]

The more I hear about F-35, the more I feel pity for the US Air Force. Latest status report is just nightmarish. The poor thing needs to fly with weapon bay wide opened ... just to cool down.
"Between 5,000 and 25,000 feet in the air and at speeds between around 575 and 700 miles per hour, pilots cannot keep the plane’s weapon bay closed for more than 10 minutes at a time for fear of overheating the aircraft. With the doors open, the F-35 is no longer stealthy."
http://warisboring.com/articles/the-f-35-is-still-horribly-broken/

Why this post about F-35 on Rafale thread? At least you should read the topic of the thread before posting something which is not relevant to the thread here

 

[smestarz]

NO.
Rafale 8000 heures and more.
Russian not more than 4000....

Su-30 MKI are in use in IAF since 2002, and since we recently are setting up Upgrade and overhaul facility in Nasik for overhauling the Su-30 MKI in India itself and not sending them to Russia.

IAF uses Su-30 MKI about 240 hrs a year, where as the recommended is 120 hrs a year. Thus if you assume a plane that was say inducted in 2005, that is 10 years till now, so that plane has already flown 2400 hours already.

Within the next few years, the Su-30 MKI from the first batch, 2002 batch will go for overhaul and possibly MLU. so 2002 to 2018 that would constitute about 16 years of service. so 240 hrs a year and 16 years that should come to 3840 hours and those will be over hauled, and then they are good for another 16-20 years of service.
But at this juncture the 3840 hr mark is already passed so the life of the air frame is not 4000 hours as you said. Thus the figure should be more than 7000 hours.at least

 

[smestarz]

You answerd badly to a question initiated by your self. So funny. Lack of arguments about Rafale range?

It seems only you find it funny, maybe you do not understand English, do you?
Try to learn some and then we debate

 

[smestarz]

Spectra and Radar are two separate things.
AESA has a range betwen 50% and 100% more than PESA. Best reliability, and more mutti target and multi role capacity. PESA radar is a little bit short to exploit fully the Meteor. Isn't is enough to change?

True RBE2 AA is not part of actual SPECTRA, but the data fusion also involves RBE 2AA. SPECTRA as I said is same as DASS. just the Euroconsortium call it DASS and French call it SPECTRA as its there only for Rafale.
There were some debates where some french contibutors say that if any plane opens its Radar SPECTRA will detect it and then fire on it. And then there was a queston if SPECTRA was such wonderful, why do French need a Radar themselves. Are they stupid?

 

[smestarz]

Maybe it's a 70s system, but all the others planes, including F16CJ weren't able to do what Rafale do.

Rafale is too eager for orders, where as the F-16 line is already closing down, They dont see the point to put in more efforts. F-16 C is a mid 80s plane. Have you noticed that recently the French ae trying to get into all the conflicts that they can to "prove" their planes but the Americans are being selective about it?

 

[Tactical Frog]

Why this post about F-35 on Rafale thread? At least you should read the topic of the thread before posting something which is not relevant to the thread here

Oops ! It was meant as a reply to another post in another thread. I am confused.

 

[smestarz]

Oops ! It was meant as a reply to another post in another thread. I am confused.

Now that we know thats ok, thought the thread will be derailed by adding F-35 to the mix

 

[smestarz]

The more time that is spent the less are the chances that India will actually buy the Rafale
FACTS:
India has signed the IGA with France
IAF wants Rafale

Now for the fact 1, the IGA is signed but the prices are more critical, the deal cannot be signed if the prices are not confirmed. At US$ 230 million a plane, the present govt is committing a political suicide, specially the argument would be that when 5th Gen was offered cheaply why did the govt go for 4th Gen plane? Rafale is not a 5th Gen plane and adding few tech will not make it 5th Gen.

About Fact 2: IAF, a lot of water has passed the bridge, Even if the Deal is signed now, the plane would not be available for the next 3 years at least and the entire 36 planes would come after maybe 7-8 years. In those 8 years the Tejas that IAF has ordered will start coming at at least 16 per year from year 2018-19 so 8 year from now, we could have 80 Tejas in the IAF and more being produced, that does solve the critical problem that IAF talks of .. NUMBERS. The cost of these planes is abt 40 milion a plane, and hence brings the benefit of price, cost and also confidence to the indian manufacturing industry.. Rafale deal would not bring any Technology for the industry to learn as its without any Technology transfer. Where as FGFA deal will come with tech transfer.

By the way, even if we go for FGFA, we shall be first testing the PAKFA and giving our inputs and then those will be incorporated, thus the first production aircraft for FGFA will start production 2 years later.

France has already lost the chance to clinch the deal, and now its upto the Russians to lose the deal.

 

[BON PLAN]

Look at news linksnon this forum

You will get a lot of sources

20 lca mk1 are already ordered
106 lca mk1 a are ordered in September 2015

2-3 back it appears that news have been leakes that 40 more su30mki will be ordered

Iaf has agrees to order 60 fgfa

The sole information on FGFA I've read is that India and Russia agree to reduce the cost. First plane not to be inducted before 10 years at least. It was in december 2015.

 

[BON PLAN]

The more time that is spent the less are the chances that India will actually buy the Rafale
FACTS:
India has signed the IGA with France
IAF wants Rafale

Now for the fact 1, the IGA is signed but the prices are more critical, the deal cannot be signed if the prices are not confirmed. At US$ 230 million a plane, the present govt is committing a political suicide, specially the argument would be that when 5th Gen was offered cheaply why did the govt go for 4th Gen plane? Rafale is not a 5th Gen plane and adding few tech will not make it 5th Gen.

About Fact 2: IAF, a lot of water has passed the bridge, Even if the Deal is signed now, the plane would not be available for the next 3 years at least and the entire 36 planes would come after maybe 7-8 years. In those 8 years the Tejas that IAF has ordered will start coming at at least 16 per year from year 2018-19 so 8 year from now, we could have 80 Tejas in the IAF and more being produced, that does solve the critical problem that IAF talks of .. NUMBERS. The cost of these planes is abt 40 milion a plane, and hence brings the benefit of price, cost and also confidence to the indian manufacturing industry.. Rafale deal would not bring any Technology for the industry to learn as its without any Technology transfer. Where as FGFA deal will come with tech transfer.

By the way, even if we go for FGFA, we shall be first testing the PAKFA and giving our inputs and then those will be incorporated, thus the first production aircraft for FGFA will start production 2 years later.

France has already lost the chance to clinch the deal, and now its upto the Russians to lose the deal.

ABSOLUTELY NO CHANCE TO SEE FGFA UNTIL 10 YEARS IN SQUADRONS !!!! too new, too costly, indian bureaucraty too slow....

 

[BON PLAN]

The earliest su30mki are inducted in iaf in 2002

They are being flown at 240 hr / yr

The earliest su30mki would have completed 3900-4000 hrs now

So by ur logic they should be retired or replaced

Instead they are just being scheduled for overhaul in next few years

No overhaul with Rafale. Maintenance is made on status given by the internal survey system.

And are you sure MKI made 240 h/year ???? With the past low disponibility it's very surprising.