Know Your 'Rafale'

[smestarz]

Thats like 250 Million$ each, with all its accessories, but no tech transfer. Anyone has to say anything about this?

Yes, if its signed, no more BJP govt in next 5 decades. The lotus will wilt in the water. never bloom again.
We shall really wonder who is more able in political suicide NaMo or RG..

 

[smestarz]

What will you do with tech transfer? Our PSUs are unable to absorb the technology and build on it. Our PSUs are even unable to copy.

It is an expensive plane and is being bought for a specific justification of IAF. Thas all.

SPECIFIC WHIM IS WHAT YOU MEAN, YES?

 

[BON PLAN]

That basicaly makes me ask a question, Firstly about Mirage 2000,
Can the Mirage 2000 generate the power for using RBE2 AA? I dont think its the question of price and customer need. IT is also about if the plane can generate enough power too. Funny as it may seem but Israelis have developed an AESA for Mirage 2000 years ago.

Also as you said its just the question of price and assuming you say that Mirage 2000 can generate enough power etc, then why cant France then integrate the over rated Spectra on Mirage 2000 ?
Since as compared to other planes, Mirage is the weakest 4th Gen plane around, so giving it what you call "one of the best defensive suite" would be an advantage..
Or maybe France is more comfortable using its planes against unarmed 3rd world countries and to "prove" their planes

1) RBE2 AESA was tested on Mirage 2000, so it's possible. RBE2 AESA is a 10kw power : no probleme with electricity. And if not always possible to change generator. If a 8 tons thrust TEJAS can have an AESA, a 10tons Mirage 2000 also. It's so simple it's strange you can't answer to your own question.

Spectra is not an off the shelf system. The location of all antenae is well established. And a lot of tests were made to assure electronic compatibility with the rest of the plane.
Spectra is one of the main argument of Rafale, and Dassaut don't want to maintain Mirage in production, so no need of integration on a fighter no more on production.

Mirage 2000 weakest 4th generation plane? No fighter in the world shoot down a Mirage 2000. Not the case in the other sens.....
And happy to read Mirage 2000 is a 4th generation plane...

 

[BON PLAN]

The Syrians invited the Russians to help them, they did not invite France, so in syria the rest of the world countries are uninvited. So what chance to have a base in syria? None

You answerd badly to a question initiated by your self. So funny. Lack of arguments about Rafale range?

 

[BON PLAN]

SA-10 is a late 70s system and you are happy that you beat that? English pilots are surprised at many things including the Su-30 MKI. But I guess they were more surprised by what Su-30 MKI than what Rafale did.
The reason why most countries avoid "play" with France is one example at Red flag 2007 when India came with their Su-30MKI. While rest of the combatants were performing their missions, the French in their Rafale were chasing Su-30 MKI (for no reason) to try and sniff the avionics for upgrading their database. So apparently the French do not take exercise for what it is but misuse it trying to build the databse for their avionics. So who the hell would "play" with you. Luckily for India we used the Su-30 MKI radar in training mode.

Maybe it's a 70s system, but all the others planes, including F16CJ weren't able to do what Rafale do.

 

[BON PLAN]

SPECTRA also includes Radar does it not? I mean the two pilots just aimed for each other and crashed?
It shows how French are hippocrites, when su-30 MKI crashes due to pilot error its problem with the plane, and when same happens with French plane, its definitely pilot error. Arent Rafale designed so that the two planes know where each other is and dont smash into each other? Maybe you can spend a few million dollars and develop this

No, Radar is not part of Spectra.
But informations of Radar and Spectra are mixed to be presented to pilot. This is "sensor fusion".

 

[BON PLAN]

DASS is a classical EW system that works and Eurofighter is proud to say it works exactly as planned. The main difference between DASS and SPECTRA is that the French are trying to potray SPECTRA as something that is not. IF SPECTRA is so wonderful why did the french have to put an AESA? Even PESA can do the job if SPECTRA is so wonderful as you market it as? No

Spectra and Radar are two separate things.
AESA has a range betwen 50% and 100% more than PESA. Best reliability, and more mutti target and multi role capacity. PESA radar is a little bit short to exploit fully the Meteor. Isn't is enough to change?

 

[BON PLAN]

What a turnabout in few days

Once we had no plan B
And looking at 126 + 63 + 45 rafales

Now we have

20+106 = 126 lcas
+
50 su30mki
+
60 fgfa
Orders firming up

Source?
I've no seen or read such information. I don't say it is true or false, but just need some source.

 

[smestarz]

1) RBE2 AESA was tested on Mirage 2000, so it's possible. RBE2 AESA is a 10kw power : no probleme with electricity. And if not always possible to change generator. If a 8 tons thrust TEJAS can have an AESA, a 10tons Mirage 2000 also. It's so simple it's strange you can't answer to your own question.

It does not depend on the weight of the plane but the amount of electricity that can be generated. And RBEE2 had been tested using Mystere and Mirage 2000 but that does not mean that its qualified on Mirage 2000, there is difference. But if so, is France planning to upgrade its Mirage fleet with AESA? There are no plans for that.

Spectra is not an off the shelf system. The location of all antenae is well established. And a lot of tests were made to assure electronic compatibility with the rest of the plane.
Spectra is one of the main argument of Rafale, and Dassaut don't want to maintain Mirage in production, so no need of integration on a fighter no more on production.

Mirage 2000 weakest 4th generation plane? No fighter in the world shoot down a Mirage 2000. Not the case in the other sens.....
And happy to read Mirage 2000 is a 4th generation plane...

SPECTRA is just the Data fusion of many off the shell receivers. RBE2 AA is part of SPECTRA, and also the various MWR and RWR on the plane. Sp as per what you say, just answer me few things
A) Does Rafale have RWR and MWR?
B) If they have, are these part of SPECTRA or not?
C) If they are not part of SPECTRA does Rafale have separate receivers on the plane for SPECTRA? Thus RWR + MRW + more separate modules for SPECTRA?

Mirage 2000 is not in production for a decade. ITs basically what user (AdlA) wants If AdlA want SPECTRA and RBE2 AA on Mirage 2000 and if Dassault can integrate it or not.
As far as I know both RBE2 AA as well as SPECTRA are not on SPECTRA and wll not be at all. If Thaies spent billion dollar on SPECTRA then they can spend a few million more to integrate them on Mirage and make it a 4th Gen plane, else its going to be shot down by the likes of F-16

 

[BON PLAN]

It does not depend on the weight of the plane but the amount of electricity that can be generated. And RBEE2 had been tested using Mystere and Mirage 2000 but that does not mean that its qualified on Mirage 2000, there is difference. But if so, is France planning to upgrade its Mirage fleet with AESA? There are no plans for that.

RBE2 PESA and AESA were tested on a Mirage 2000 with 2 pilots. Electric power needed is around 10kw. No special problem for M2000.
Absolutely no plan in France to adapt it on M2000.

 

[BON PLAN]

SPECTRA is just the Data fusion of many off the shell receivers. RBE2 AA is part of SPECTRA, and also the various MWR and RWR on the plane. Sp as per what you say, just answer me few things
A) Does Rafale have RWR and MWR?
B) If they have, are these part of SPECTRA or not?
C) If they are not part of SPECTRA does Rafale have separate receivers on the plane for SPECTRA? Thus RWR + MRW + more separate modules for SPECTRA?

No !
Data fusion use information from Spectra, OSF, Radar, L16....
About Spectra You forget activ annihilation of signals for exemple. It doest make an invisibility cap at all range, but enough to push back some detection.

 

[BON PLAN]

Mirage 2000 is not in production for a decade. ITs basically what user (AdlA) wants If AdlA want SPECTRA and RBE2 AA on Mirage 2000 and if Dassault can integrate it or not.
As far as I know both RBE2 AA as well as SPECTRA are not on SPECTRA and wll not be at all. If Thaies spent billion dollar on SPECTRA then they can spend a few million more to integrate them on Mirage and make it a 4th Gen plane, else its going to be shot down by the likes of F-16

Mirage 2000 for France was always an economical choice. It's Giscard D'estaing Président who choose M2000. French air force dream was Mirage 4000....
French air force futur is Rafale. Mirage 2000 in France is like Tornado for GB : a plane for today and for tomorrow low level battlefield (as counter terrorism), but not for futur. Modernization are light on french Mirage 2000. It's a choice. Not a technical choice, but economical and practical.

 

[Immanuel]

Life of a Russian plane ? 4000 hours max.

Life of Rafale? 8000 hours minimum. The equation is a little bit different no?

MKI rated for 6000 hrs, Rafale the same.

 

[Immanuel]

Upgraded Mirage with Mica is a nice fighter. Absolutely able to outmatch F16 (which is a nice fighter also).
Do you think Indian are so stupid to modernized a finished fighter?
What's important is not only the airframe (but usefull), but the electronic Equipment. And Newer Mirage 2000 and Rafale are among the best. It's a french speciality the electonic support end environnement.
A huge radar (as in SU30) isn't enough. SU30 is a huge plane, with a huge radar signature.... Rafale less. far less...

Finally all this is brochure hogwash, didn't stop the MKI from whacking the Rafale in BVR & WVR.

 

[Immanuel]

No !
Data fusion use information from Spectra, OSF, Radar, L16....
About Spectra You forget activ annihilation of signals for exemple. It doest make an invisibility cap at all range, but enough to push back some detection.

Spectra is useful against Soviet era radars, by today's tech, its outdated.

 

[BON PLAN]

MKI rated for 6000 hrs, Rafale the same.

NO.
Rafale 8000 heures and more.
Russian not more than 4000....

 

[Immanuel]

Fish eye IR detector already in production.
GaN components for Spectra also, or nearly.
The rest is coming from 3 to 10 years.

and also New Stealth développements (but it seems Spectra leave it useless ....), new active electronic flare, conformal tanks, stealth container for AtoG weapons, SAT com, DIRCM, ....

Most of this tech still doesn't match what's already on the F-35 and what will be available post 2020. Heck even the Super Hornet International is flying with half the stuff you already mentioned.

 

[BON PLAN]

Finally all this is brochure hogwash, didn't stop the MKI from whacking the Rafale in BVR & WVR.

Source? Only bla bla....
After encounters between Rafale and MKI, no such news.
And if MKI is so interesting (powerfull, cheap, able in AtoA and AtoG....) why changing ?

 

[BON PLAN]

Spectra is useful against Soviet era radars, by today's tech, its outdated.

only a german cow can say that.

 

[Immanuel]

So Indians officials and air force boss are idiots.
Why do you think they spend such money? France is a second role country in the world. If you buy our technologies, it's because it's usefull for you.

SU30 wonderfull? it's not what your air force boss think (no plan B with SU for MMRCA he said).

Spectra : it's a high level secret. We spend 1 billion euro to developp it. France was the first country to developp electonic support (for Mirage 4 and 3 nuclear mission). And we are one of the top in the world in this area. Spectra is probably the jewel of Rafale. Say or think what you want about it.... You simply don't understand all its capacity.

No, just the Indian Airforce's top management, they are high, hence such silly statements. These are the same folk who tested 6 different aircraft from different weight categories to full-fill the need for a lightweight single engine fighter multirole fighter.

As for Spectra, its all yadi yada, most of the capabilities are overrated