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MMS and I have done our duty in placating ze germans
Singh wouldn't mind it
Know Your 'Rafale'
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From Bonaparte to Sarkozy French indigestion continues. ......................Sarko has already started rubbing it in into UK...
Nicolas Sarkozy news: French president's jibe at Britain | The Sun |News|Politics
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The Twists And Turns Of India's Biggest Defence Deal
This is how India's biggest defence deal - a $10.4-billion tender for 126 combat aircraft - panned out:
* 2000: Indian Air Force (IAF) conveys to defence ministry its interest in acquiring medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) to replace its ageing fleet of Soviet-era MiG-21s and because of delays in developing the indigenous light combat aircraft (LCA).
* 2001: IAF issues request for information (RFI) for 126 combat jets.
* 2003: IAF seeks defence ministry's permission to buy 50 more French Mirage-2000s to shore up the only MMRCAs in its fleet as a stop-gap arrangement. The aircraft had been acquired in the mid-1980s.
* 2004: Defence ministry asks IAF to instead issue a larger MMRCA tender.
* 2005: Defence ministry issues initial MMRCA tender but withdraws it quickly even as it starts receiving responses from vendors.
* 2006: The then IAF chief, Air Chief Marshal S.P. Tyagi, flags the dwindling squadron strength of the force. From a sanctioned strength of 39.5 combat squadrons, the IAF is down to 33 squadrons.
* August 2007: India issues the tender for 126 MMRCAs at an estimated cost of $10.4 billion.
* February 2008: US majors Boeing and Lockheed Martin, Russia's United Aircraft Corporation, France's Dassault, European consortium EADS and Sweden's SAAB submit their bids.
* April 2009: Reports that Dassault and SAAB are out of the race.
* May 2009: Defence ministry says Dassault and SAAB still in contention.
* April 2010: IAF completes its flight and weapons evaluation of the six contenders on the basis of 643 parameters.
* December 2010: Offset proposals of contenders goes missing; later found on the roadside in south Delhi. The incident threatens to derail the tendering process.
* April 2011: India down-selects EADS and Dassault for the final leg of the contest, rejecting the other four contenders.
* November 2011: The commercial offers from European consortium Eurofighter and France's Dassault Aviation opened.
January 31, 2011: Dassault informed that it has emerged as the lowest bidder.
The twists and turns of India's biggest defence deal | The Asian Age
This is how India's biggest defence deal - a $10.4-billion tender for 126 combat aircraft - panned out:
* 2000: Indian Air Force (IAF) conveys to defence ministry its interest in acquiring medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) to replace its ageing fleet of Soviet-era MiG-21s and because of delays in developing the indigenous light combat aircraft (LCA).
* 2001: IAF issues request for information (RFI) for 126 combat jets.
* 2003: IAF seeks defence ministry's permission to buy 50 more French Mirage-2000s to shore up the only MMRCAs in its fleet as a stop-gap arrangement. The aircraft had been acquired in the mid-1980s.
* 2004: Defence ministry asks IAF to instead issue a larger MMRCA tender.
* 2005: Defence ministry issues initial MMRCA tender but withdraws it quickly even as it starts receiving responses from vendors.
* 2006: The then IAF chief, Air Chief Marshal S.P. Tyagi, flags the dwindling squadron strength of the force. From a sanctioned strength of 39.5 combat squadrons, the IAF is down to 33 squadrons.
* August 2007: India issues the tender for 126 MMRCAs at an estimated cost of $10.4 billion.
* February 2008: US majors Boeing and Lockheed Martin, Russia's United Aircraft Corporation, France's Dassault, European consortium EADS and Sweden's SAAB submit their bids.
* April 2009: Reports that Dassault and SAAB are out of the race.
* May 2009: Defence ministry says Dassault and SAAB still in contention.
* April 2010: IAF completes its flight and weapons evaluation of the six contenders on the basis of 643 parameters.
* December 2010: Offset proposals of contenders goes missing; later found on the roadside in south Delhi. The incident threatens to derail the tendering process.
* April 2011: India down-selects EADS and Dassault for the final leg of the contest, rejecting the other four contenders.
* November 2011: The commercial offers from European consortium Eurofighter and France's Dassault Aviation opened.
January 31, 2011: Dassault informed that it has emerged as the lowest bidder.
The twists and turns of India's biggest defence deal | The Asian Age
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I heard the difference was Rs 10,000 crores
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That would be $2 billion, I also heard $5 million a plane for $750m.
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10 billion is a small amount as far as the total size of the economy goes but for thousands of workers jobs and money to spend will mean it will add to the consumer spending in small measures. That what I can think of. I think the deal is valuable more for the future that was at stake for Dassault and the pride of the French.
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Indo-French Nuclear deal =24 billion
MMRCA= 12 billion
Scorpion Subs = 11 billion.
MICA missiles = 1.2 billion
Mirage 2000 upgrade = 2.4 billion
SNECMA JV = ?
(Please correct figures if wrong)
French hand and head in Indian ''Ghee''.
MMRCA= 12 billion
Scorpion Subs = 11 billion.
MICA missiles = 1.2 billion
Mirage 2000 upgrade = 2.4 billion
SNECMA JV = ?
(Please correct figures if wrong)
French hand and head in Indian ''Ghee''.
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France will land MMRT, LUH, and LPDs next.
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Expert View - French Rafale lowest bidder in India
Following are reactions to the news, which pushed shares in Dassault Aviation up more than 20 percent to their highest level in over four years.
JAMES HARDY
ASIA PACIFIC SPECIALIST, IHS JANE'S DEFENCE WEEKLY
"It's a big win for the Dassault and the Rafale: its first overseas order, after a couple of big disappointments in Brazil and UAE, and a big loss for Eurofighter.
The Typhoon was widely tipped to be the favourite and had major political support from the big beasts of the Eurofighter nations. Both Germany and the UK invested a lot of time in pushing the Typhoon so this will hurt.
"The Indian MoD will argue that it chose Rafale based on it being the lowest bid...
"However, it is important to note that this is just the first step. Rafale has been selected as preferred bidder but any student of Indian procurement knows that this means nothing until the contract is physically signed."
UDAY BHASKAR, STRATEGIC ANALYST AND DIRECTOR
NATIONAL MARITIME FOUNDATION, NEW DELHI
"It would have a strong positive impact on the bilateral relationship with France. It should not affect India's relations with the Eurofighter consortium because France has a strong footprint in the European Union. This deal does not mean India's relationship with Germany, Britain, Spain or Italy will be negatively impacted".
RET'D AIR CHIEF MARSHAL FALI HOMI MAJOR
FORMER CHIEF OF STAFF, INDIAN AIR FORCE
"The Rafale gives India a huge combat edge to our air force given the situation in our region, and 126 jets means that this is a long awaited addition to our squadron strength.
"I am not specifically talking about China or Pakistan. I am talking of the capability of an air force in the present scenario in the region.
We cannot say what kind of conflict situation there would be, in the region, 20 years hence. To maintain readiness in any contigency and to project their power in the right manner, this is definitely a great addition for the Indian Air Force."
FRENCH TRADE MINISTER PIERRE LELLOUCHE
"I confirm that we are in a very positive phase for the Rafale in India...At this stage we have to remain prudent; we are in a phase of exclusive negotiations. We have won the contract but there a number of things to finalize so let's be cautious for now."
FRANCIS TUSA
EDITOR, DEFENCE ANALYSIS
"In these competitions as soon as you say there is an evaluation and X is the winner people pay attention, but then you need to have a commercial and industrial evaluation.
This is not a victory, it is round two."
FRENCH LAWMAKER OLIVIER DASSAULT
(SON OF DASSAULT GROUP CEO SERGE DASSAULT)
"It's very, very, very good news not only for Dassault but the whole of the French aeronautic industry.
"It's a programme on which more than 500 companies are cooperating. It's a victory for all of the small- and medium-sized high-technology companies that are participating in the construction of the most beautiful airplane in the world."
HOWARD WHEELDON, SENIOR STRATEGIST, BGC PARTNERS
"This is not the end of the road by any stretch of the imagination. This is only the beginning of a second stage of this campaign.
India is going to ensure it gets what it wants. The bottom line will be when they ask what industrial assistance is genuinely going to be put in, compared with what is promised. The second stage will be more about whether promises can actually be met.
The Typhoon, unlike the Rafale, is far from being a mature aircraft. The Typhoon has time on its side; the Rafale does not.
ROB STALLARD, AEROSPACE ANALYST, RBC CAPITAL MARKETS
"Without export orders to date the Rafale needed a win to stay in production, an economic reality that had been reiterated by the French government (its sole buyer/operator to date).
"The resultant pressure to win in India has likely resulted in aggressive pricing though it is likely to evolve during the negotiation process as industrial commitments ... and milestones are affirmed.
Nonetheless at this stage we see the selection of Dassault by the Indian government (still pending official confirmation) to be a positive result for team Rafale, which includes Safran (SAF.PA).
Confirmation of the award is a clear negative for the Eurofighter consortium, of which EADS (EAD.PA) and BAE Systems (BAES.L) are the largest participants. Eurofighter production is already challenged with Germany recently reducing its purchase by 37 aircraft and the consortium agreeing to slow the production line in search of export orders out to 2017."
Following are reactions to the news, which pushed shares in Dassault Aviation up more than 20 percent to their highest level in over four years.
JAMES HARDY
ASIA PACIFIC SPECIALIST, IHS JANE'S DEFENCE WEEKLY
"It's a big win for the Dassault and the Rafale: its first overseas order, after a couple of big disappointments in Brazil and UAE, and a big loss for Eurofighter.
The Typhoon was widely tipped to be the favourite and had major political support from the big beasts of the Eurofighter nations. Both Germany and the UK invested a lot of time in pushing the Typhoon so this will hurt.
"The Indian MoD will argue that it chose Rafale based on it being the lowest bid...
"However, it is important to note that this is just the first step. Rafale has been selected as preferred bidder but any student of Indian procurement knows that this means nothing until the contract is physically signed."
UDAY BHASKAR, STRATEGIC ANALYST AND DIRECTOR
NATIONAL MARITIME FOUNDATION, NEW DELHI
"It would have a strong positive impact on the bilateral relationship with France. It should not affect India's relations with the Eurofighter consortium because France has a strong footprint in the European Union. This deal does not mean India's relationship with Germany, Britain, Spain or Italy will be negatively impacted".
RET'D AIR CHIEF MARSHAL FALI HOMI MAJOR
FORMER CHIEF OF STAFF, INDIAN AIR FORCE
"The Rafale gives India a huge combat edge to our air force given the situation in our region, and 126 jets means that this is a long awaited addition to our squadron strength.
"I am not specifically talking about China or Pakistan. I am talking of the capability of an air force in the present scenario in the region.
We cannot say what kind of conflict situation there would be, in the region, 20 years hence. To maintain readiness in any contigency and to project their power in the right manner, this is definitely a great addition for the Indian Air Force."
FRENCH TRADE MINISTER PIERRE LELLOUCHE
"I confirm that we are in a very positive phase for the Rafale in India...At this stage we have to remain prudent; we are in a phase of exclusive negotiations. We have won the contract but there a number of things to finalize so let's be cautious for now."
FRANCIS TUSA
EDITOR, DEFENCE ANALYSIS
"In these competitions as soon as you say there is an evaluation and X is the winner people pay attention, but then you need to have a commercial and industrial evaluation.
This is not a victory, it is round two."
FRENCH LAWMAKER OLIVIER DASSAULT
(SON OF DASSAULT GROUP CEO SERGE DASSAULT)
"It's very, very, very good news not only for Dassault but the whole of the French aeronautic industry.
"It's a programme on which more than 500 companies are cooperating. It's a victory for all of the small- and medium-sized high-technology companies that are participating in the construction of the most beautiful airplane in the world."
HOWARD WHEELDON, SENIOR STRATEGIST, BGC PARTNERS
"This is not the end of the road by any stretch of the imagination. This is only the beginning of a second stage of this campaign.
India is going to ensure it gets what it wants. The bottom line will be when they ask what industrial assistance is genuinely going to be put in, compared with what is promised. The second stage will be more about whether promises can actually be met.
The Typhoon, unlike the Rafale, is far from being a mature aircraft. The Typhoon has time on its side; the Rafale does not.
ROB STALLARD, AEROSPACE ANALYST, RBC CAPITAL MARKETS
"Without export orders to date the Rafale needed a win to stay in production, an economic reality that had been reiterated by the French government (its sole buyer/operator to date).
"The resultant pressure to win in India has likely resulted in aggressive pricing though it is likely to evolve during the negotiation process as industrial commitments ... and milestones are affirmed.
Nonetheless at this stage we see the selection of Dassault by the Indian government (still pending official confirmation) to be a positive result for team Rafale, which includes Safran (SAF.PA).
Confirmation of the award is a clear negative for the Eurofighter consortium, of which EADS (EAD.PA) and BAE Systems (BAES.L) are the largest participants. Eurofighter production is already challenged with Germany recently reducing its purchase by 37 aircraft and the consortium agreeing to slow the production line in search of export orders out to 2017."
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France's Rafale wins $18bn IAF mega-deal
Deccan chronicle, Feb 1
[...]
With this, contract cost negotiations will start with Dassault. The declaration of the lowest bidder marks the decisive stage in the acquisition process, which started in 2007. The original estimated cost of the deal was around Rs 42,000 crores ($10.4 billion) in 2007, but there are indications this could escalate to between Rs 80,000 crores to Rs 90,000 crores (about $16-18 billion). But no official figures are available as cost negotiations are yet to begin.India will now compare its "benchmark price" at current costs to the cost at which the French are prepared to sell, and will try to scale down the French bid. Only if these talks with Dassault fail will negotiations start with "L2" (second-lowest bidder) — EADS Eurofighter.The Rafale, currently the main French Air Force combat aircraft, is known as an "omnirole" fighter capable of multi-role functions like air-to-ground precision strikes, nuclear strikes, anti-ship attacks, reconnaissance, close air support and air defence. The aircraft is equipped with smart sensors and rocket-boosted air-to-ground precision guided weapons with laser guidance systems, long-range missiles, anti-ship missiles and air-to-air missiles. Dassault says the Rafale was used with great success in French combat ops in Afghanistan and Libya.Of the 126 aircraft that will be acquired, 18 will come in "flyaway" condition in three years, while the remaining 108 will be built by state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd in the next seven years with technology transfers. The contract is expected to be signed in the next five months.
From:
http://www.deccanchronicle.com/chann...-mega-deal-777
Deccan chronicle, Feb 1
[...]
With this, contract cost negotiations will start with Dassault. The declaration of the lowest bidder marks the decisive stage in the acquisition process, which started in 2007. The original estimated cost of the deal was around Rs 42,000 crores ($10.4 billion) in 2007, but there are indications this could escalate to between Rs 80,000 crores to Rs 90,000 crores (about $16-18 billion). But no official figures are available as cost negotiations are yet to begin.India will now compare its "benchmark price" at current costs to the cost at which the French are prepared to sell, and will try to scale down the French bid. Only if these talks with Dassault fail will negotiations start with "L2" (second-lowest bidder) — EADS Eurofighter.The Rafale, currently the main French Air Force combat aircraft, is known as an "omnirole" fighter capable of multi-role functions like air-to-ground precision strikes, nuclear strikes, anti-ship attacks, reconnaissance, close air support and air defence. The aircraft is equipped with smart sensors and rocket-boosted air-to-ground precision guided weapons with laser guidance systems, long-range missiles, anti-ship missiles and air-to-air missiles. Dassault says the Rafale was used with great success in French combat ops in Afghanistan and Libya.Of the 126 aircraft that will be acquired, 18 will come in "flyaway" condition in three years, while the remaining 108 will be built by state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd in the next seven years with technology transfers. The contract is expected to be signed in the next five months.
From:
http://www.deccanchronicle.com/chann...-mega-deal-777
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WOW !!! Putting all eggs in one basket ?
mayfair
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I reiterate, there a lot of slip between the cup and the lip. We are still unaware of the life cycle costs, weapons and spares and support costs for Rafale. If Mirage 2000 upgrade is anything to go by, caution is important.
Dassault had to win this competition to keep the Rafale production running and they may have gone a little overboard in aggressive pricing offsets. It is upto MoD and MoF to ensure that there is no room for backdoor cost escalations in terms of insanely expensive spares (separating the weapons package from the deal may have been an attempt to restrict such maneuvering) and support.
It is upto us how we use this deal to maximise the economic and industrial benefits accruing to our economy for the forseeable future. This was but a chapter, the real work begins now.
Dassault had to win this competition to keep the Rafale production running and they may have gone a little overboard in aggressive pricing offsets. It is upto MoD and MoF to ensure that there is no room for backdoor cost escalations in terms of insanely expensive spares (separating the weapons package from the deal may have been an attempt to restrict such maneuvering) and support.
It is upto us how we use this deal to maximise the economic and industrial benefits accruing to our economy for the forseeable future. This was but a chapter, the real work begins now.
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MoD knows what the costs are, Rafale has been in operation and combat long enough to give real figures.
Dassault won because it is the best fighter at the best price with the best ToT. As long as MoD is smart enough to secure orders for spares, something they are notoriously known for not doing, they will not have any surprises. If they start cannabalising aircraft as usual then they will have a problem, one caused by itself.
GoI doesn't take strategic advantage of offsets allowing commercial JVs instead and allowing write-offs of already delivered business.
Dassault won because it is the best fighter at the best price with the best ToT. As long as MoD is smart enough to secure orders for spares, something they are notoriously known for not doing, they will not have any surprises. If they start cannabalising aircraft as usual then they will have a problem, one caused by itself.
GoI doesn't take strategic advantage of offsets allowing commercial JVs instead and allowing write-offs of already delivered business.
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