Know Your 'Rafale'

[ersakthivel]

Being pro DRDO is not even remotely considered as being pro india in these import reducing days!!!

 

[ersakthivel]

It could be when my weapon doesn't work and enemy's does.

As for your post #1025, it won't be very smart of me to throw myself to the wolves so no further comments.

Are you sure all imported weapons work properly in inidian conditions always?
If so why is IA asking AC from DRDO for their russian T-90?
why all the twelve weapon locating radars imported with great fanfare from US are lying useless?
Why IAF has to ground hundred odd Mig-23s as un rectifiable engine design fault infested, after a crash killed group captain?
Why Russian SAMs routinely fail when picked for random lot trials?
Mirage-2000 spent many years in IAf with nothing but the gun,

 

[blueblood]

Wolf number one takes a giant bite despite my best efforts.

Are you sure all imported weapons work properly in inidian (Indian) conditions always?

No, but I will feel a lot more confident with a empty pistol than a stone in my hands. I get to bluff my way out of a situation.

If so why is IA asking AC from DRDO for their russian T-90?

IA's fault.

why all the twelve weapon locating radars imported with great fanfare from US are lying useless?

Lack of spares or maintenance. IA's fault.

Why IAF has to ground hundred odd Mig-23s as un rectifiable engine design fault infested, after a crash killed group captain?

Lived way past their life. IAF and MOD's fault

Why Russian SAMs routinely fail when picked for random lot trials?

And DRDO wants to shoot down planes with INSAS. Where is the DRDO SAM? If you say Akash which is inducted just now, I will suggest you get some help.

Mirage-2000 spent many years in IAf with nothing but the gun,

And the 10th avatar of Vishnu (LCA) was doing what in Kargil, Operation Parakram, 2008 mobilization.

DRDO is the Krishna to Army's Arjun of this country like it has been for the last 70 years. OFB as an institution is the second coming of Jesus. And MBT Arjun is the greatest invention/ since steam engine.

Had it been up to people like you, my parents would have to teach me Urdu or Mandarin as a child.

 

[Zebra]

Are you sure all imported weapons work properly in inidian conditions always?
If so why is IA asking AC from DRDO for their russian T-90?
why all the twelve weapon locating radars imported with great fanfare from US are lying useless?
Why IAF has to ground hundred odd Mig-23s as un rectifiable engine design fault infested, after a crash killed group captain?
Why Russian SAMs routinely fail when picked for random lot trials?
Mirage-2000 spent many years in IAf with nothing but the gun,

Sir, our PSUs can't make them faster and in time.

Now what would Modi do.....?....!

Well, that red color part is Signature of a DFI member. :biggrin2:

 

[blueblood]

Sir, our PSUs can't make them faster and in time.

Now what would Modi do.....?....!

Well, that red color part is Signature of a DFI member. :biggrin2:

Dude, I am right here. You are hurting my feelings.

 

[Armand2REP]

No mainstream media is reporting this. I think that would be a major story if true.

 

[Zebra]

Dude, I am right here. You are hurting my feelings.

What gone wrong sir?

 

[blueblood]

No mainstream media is reporting this. I think that would be a major story if true.

Try Janes, they are reporting it. If DM just capped it to 36, diversifying the inventory further for such a small order is not a good idea. Things will change when LCA Mk2's trails will take forever.

What gone wrong sir?

I thought you were making fun of me. I am a sensitive guy so.....nvm...

 

[Zebra]

I thought you were making fun of me. I am a sensitive guy so.....nvm...

nooo

Anyway, that Signature is yours!

 

[SajeevJino]

Try Janes, they are reporting it. If DM just capped it to 36, diversifying the inventory further for such a small order is not a good idea. Things will change when LCA Mk2's trails will take forever.
I thought you were making fun of me. I am a sensitive guy so.....nvm...

Yeah saw the Janes article too.. It's written by Rahul Bedi he is like IDRW in Janes ..!!

 

[Armand2REP]

Try Janes, they are reporting it. If DM just capped it to 36, diversifying the inventory further for such a small order is not a good idea. Things will change when LCA Mk2's trails will take forever.

Janes hasn't had credibility in over a decade. Where is the mainstream reporting? If this is actually what he said it would be screaming across the wires. Let me accept it as truth, so no further Rafale buy leaves an infrastructure buy for only 2 squadrons = wasted money. It depends on LCA of not only being certified for combat, it also requires it meeting the 56 critical criteria CAG said it fails. It also requires MKI not being grounded 80% of its existence. Even accepting it as truth, I am highly confident more Rafale will be purchased... not only confident, certain.

 

[sorcerer]

Hasnt Parikkar said that,sometimes we have to do some high profile buys to further the defense deals vis a vis Make in India program.
I suppose the deal of 36 is in this regard

 

[halloweene]

in the meanwhile... Dassault still have a team working on "make in india"...

 

[akshay m]

here goes
try to figure how they will fit in 200 LCA's, and 126 rafales
prehaps they will order another 30 rafales ,but that will be all,,most likely

keeping my fingers crossed


50% of Rafale deal value will be invested in India: Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar

Parrikar also said that with India buying around 36 Rafale jets for now, government savings on this project is likely to be up Rs 60,000-65,000 crore. This money, Parrikar said, will be used to accelerate defence manufacturing in India, including speeding up the long-ingestation Light Combat Aircraft. The minister said LCA will be inducted in large numbers, up to 200 fighters or 10 squadrons.

 

[akshay m]

so no further Rafale buy leaves an infrastructure buy for only 2 squadrons = wasted money.

ah, well ,you see , about those 36 rafales , only a statement of intent has been given.

one of the reasons , the congressi dogs have not started barking at modi and his make in india

the 36 rafales aint a done deal...........................................................................

won't count chickens before they hatch be they rafale or LCA

Rafale deal may be Congress’s next weapon to target Modi govt

Former defence minister AK Antony is learnt to have told the party that it may be premature to touch the subject because there is still no agreement between India and France and that Modi's much-feted announcement of a government-to-government sale earlier this month in Paris remains more an expression of intent.

 

[akshay m]

Heres what prasunn zen guptha says

Missing The Woods For The Trees

All it takes for the Indian component of cyberspace to go into a senseless tizzy is for a ‘Bandalbaaz’ masquerading as a journalist to highlight selected quotes from a certain Minister’s interaction during a media conclave, and draw spectacularly outrageous conclusions. This in turn gets to be ‘assumed’ as being the gospel truth, with the end-result being a classic case of the blind leading the blind. Take, for instance, the following two selective quotes that originated 48 hours ago:

“By buying 36 Rafales instead of 126, I have saved the cost of 90 Rafales,” Parrikar said, adding that this amount was around Rs.900 billion (US$15.51 billion). “We will use this money to buy Tejas LCA pricedat around Rs.1.5 billion each,” he added.

“By buying 36 Rafales at a price less than (what was quoted in response to) the earlier tender for 126aircraft, I have saved the cost of 90 Rafales. We will use that money to buy Tejas LCAs”.

Now here’s what it all means. Under the original M-MRCA procurement process for an initial 126 Dassault Aviation Rafales, the first 18 (12 single-seaters and six tandem-seaters) were to be acquired in flyable condition off-the-shelf, for which the Ministry of Defence (MoD) would have had to pay only the acquisition costs and related support infrastructure costs. For the remaining 108 Rafales that were to be licence-built in India (74 single-seaters and 34 tandem-seaters of which 11 were be built from semi-knocked down or SKD kits, 31 from completely knocked down or CKD kits, and 66 made from indigenously manufactured kits or IMK), the MoD would have been required to fork out A) the industrial production costs (for setting up the domestic industrial infrastructure and training a skilled pool of human resources); B) acquisition costs that were to be paid to the MoD-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL); and C) support infrastructure costs for creating the squadron-level and intermediate-level MRO facilities.

Now that the original scheme for procuring 126 Rafales (plus 63 options) has been abandoned, the MoD will, under Phase-1, be required to pay only the acquisition costs and related support infrastructure costs for the first 36 Rafales. Under Phase-2, an industrial consortium comprising Dassault Aviation and its Indian counterparts from both the private-sector and public-sector will supply up to 153 locally-assembled Rafales. This consortium—to be dominated by the private-sector—will raise the necessary funding required (for creating the domestic industrial infrastructure and training a skilled pool of human resources) entirely from the capital markets, and will charge the MoD only for the fleet acquisition cost. In other words, the MoD’s Department of Defence Production & Supplies will no longer be required to foot the bill for industrial production costs of the 171 Rafales.

Consequently, this enormous pool of money saved will be invested in R & D activities for the Indian Air Force’s Tejas Mk2 MRCA and the Indian Navy’s LCA (Navy) Mk2. Since both these MRCAs will be brand-new designs, at least five flying prototypes for each type will be required to be built, and each type—Tejas Mk2 and LCA (Navy) Mk2—will be required to undergo at least 2,000 hours of flight-tests before they are awarded their respective airworthiness certifications. For all intents and purposes, these are herculean tasks that require substantial R & D funding-levels, about which I will soon elaborate further in greater detail below.

 

[halloweene]

Only info i had from DA : do you remember when everyone predicted the Rafale to be abandoned in favour of more SU30? Don't worry.

Afterall its not like if Parrikar had never stepped backk (see M777)...

 

[Khagesh]

I was reading the post by Prasoon Sen Gupta and trying to find the logic behind his claim of 153 to be made. I could not find any.

You may as well put 253 or 553 over there. There is no reason why these numbers cannot be put.

I am not saying that the purchase cannot be made. I am sure the money can be found. But where is the logic to it.

Rafale is being discussed in India only because the IAF honchos during some earlier time had purposely cooked up a requirement such that Su-30MKi could be kept out. Why they did it for them to answer.

Again not saying that Rafale is not useful, but certainly not in large numbers.

In any case why are we wasting our time on making Rafale here. Just import the goddamned thing now that we have wasted so much time on the bitch.

 

[blueblood]

nooo

Anyway, that Signature is yours!

God bless you kind sir and may you live a long and healthy life.

Yeah saw the Janes article too.. It's written by Rahul Bedi he is like IDRW in Janes ..!!

I spent years thinking Arjun Mk2 will be a 55 ton machine because Rahul Bedi said so and other media started quoting the same.

Janes hasn't had credibility in over a decade. Where is the mainstream reporting? If this is actually what he said it would be screaming across the wires. Let me accept it as truth, so no further Rafale buy leaves an infrastructure buy for only 2 squadrons = wasted money. It depends on LCA of not only being certified for combat, it also requires it meeting the 56 critical criteria CAG said it fails. It also requires MKI not being grounded 80% of its existence. Even accepting it as truth, I am highly confident more Rafale will be purchased... not only confident, certain.

Not Janes per se but Janes India is ruining it's reputation world over. CAG report is outdated on several parameters. For more info, contact our resident DRDO wolves. Still MKI has a better crash rate than Rafale.

As for the further orders or "make in India", I don't have a problem with either. Because I ain't a DRDO/HAL/IOFB groupie.

What DRDO/HAL fans think their products look like.

What they really look like.

 

[Khagesh]

Wow this is hot. After 8+ years in Def Min this guy did have some tricks up his sleeves. I thought he was another MMS, who will turn the Rafale deal into a Sharm-al-Shiek. Thank god he had at least the sense to keep the L-1 into dispute.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...ale-deal-with-france/articleshow/47399345.cms

Antony said he had told all concerned to continue with the negotiations, but not to take it with government for approval till the L-1 dispute is settled.
<snip>
The company was not ready to transfer technology as part of the agreement.

So there was no bloody deal from the beginning. This was all a show arranged for by pliant baboos, corrupt politicians, a few wanna be dalals in IAF, a few in the Radia-Media and a clutch of fanbois/50 cents on the net played about by the PRO of Dassault. The french never wanted to fulfil the RFP conditions and yet they entered the competition merely to hold IAF to ransom.

Defence Minister A K Anthony admits that the ToT was never agreed to by Dassault despite them having been told about the conditions beforehand.

All the while we were being told that the problem is with the interpretation of clauses and definition of a Weekly work hours. The french never wanted to fulfil the RFQ conditions.

Dassault knew bloody well that in 5-7 years of tests, negotiations and related circus the IAF would have lost/retired/obsolenced many more fighters and both the IAF and GoI will be forced to agree to their terms. And Dassault will then project itself as the saviour of the Indian Nation.

Somebody saw through that in the first few months. Mr. Prime Minister beg you to kill this bloody deal. The aircraft was good but we can easily get several options. This is not a make or break deal for either the IAF or the Defence of the Nation.

Also cross-posting in the thread : India Buys Rafale. More to Come?