Know Your 'Rafale'

[p2prada]

What! do you guys just blurt out stuff because it comes to your mind immediately? what does the current tender won by dassault have to do with my conversation of offering the F35 on the additional 80 ( to come) tender?

secondly, F35 was not offered previously because it was not offered to anyone back in what was it 2003-4? when you process started?

Nobody had signed any contract and there was no aircraft to evaluate . Did you want us to send you a paper aircraft to evaluate?

The F-35 was rejected officially, maybe not by our highest officials, but rejected nonetheless. IAF is not looking at the F-35 for it's 5th gen option. PAKFA has already been decided.

Any further option of extending the MRCA program by another 80 fighters will be meant for the Rafale alone.

Perhaps the 80 fighters could be for the Navy's MRCA requirement, 72 IMO. Then F-35 would have a fighting chance, but it will take time for the RFPs to be sent across. Maybe this year or even the next. Then this will be followed by grueling tests for a year or two and then another year for announcing the bids. Give a year for delays. That would effectively mean any contract signing will happen only in 2017 with 3 to 4 years for first delivery. Plenty of time for the F-35 to be ready.

 

[Mad Indian]

The MMRCA contract is 126 with an option for 74. I can't imagine they would launch a new tender when they are already paying for the option.

Man you have so many friends and admirers here don't you :thumb::thumb::thumb: .... count me as one too.......

Now Back to topic, was it not just 126 which may be extended to 200... I mean addition of another fighter will be a logistics nightmare for India wont it .... further I read somewhere that IAF wants to limit its type of aircraft platforms operated to just three in the near future.....

 

[JayATL]

I must hand it to you for your sheer passion and enthu man. I guess your only resort in debate is name calling, must give your an orgasmic high. Have fun playing with yourself.

says the idiot who comes into my comments 9 out 10 times to troll with moronic replies.

says that guy who follows every post I make and makes idiotic snide comments. heh. How stupid do you insist on looking by claiming stuff like you did about ranges? You came in to insult me and the American bird but you insulted India in return. genius! ...not.

"Oh we Indians cant use F35 to attack China across our border because of its combat radius , while you americans can come all over from your neck of woods and attack them anywhere with it."- whack that track!

 

[Armand2REP]

Man you have so many friends and admirers here don't you :thumb::thumb::thumb: .... count me as one too.......

Now Back to topic, was it not just 126 which may be extended to 200... I mean addition of another fighter will be a logistics nightmare for India wont it .... further I read somewhere that IAF wants to limit its type of aircraft platforms operated to just three in the near future.....

Commonality greatly reduces cost, as will the induction of Rafale M for future IAC. When PAK FA comes up late, another stopgap will be needed, ie more Rafale.

 

[Mad Indian]

I'm reading all over in various forums silly comments on the allocation of the remianing 80 aircrafts. The remaining 80 aircrafts must go towards purchasing 5th Gen aircraft. It makes no sense to buy another set of 4 Gen . Why would you reopen a new RFP and tender, to only buy older gen aircraft or buy one that you have rejected for dassault? Look at what Korea is doing ... F35 is the obvious choice. Plus it's a hedge against Russian infamous delivery schedules on PAK FA.

As If Uncle Sam is any different ... Remember Pokhran II?????

 

[JayATL]

The F-35 was rejected officially, maybe not by our highest officials, but rejected nonetheless. IAF is not looking at the F-35 for it's 5th gen option. PAKFA has already been decided.

Any further option of extending the MRCA program by another 80 fighters will be meant for the Rafale alone.

Perhaps the 80 fighters could be for the Navy's MRCA requirement, 72 IMO. Then F-35 would have a fighting chance, but it will take time for the RFPs to be sent across. Maybe this year or even the next. Then this will be followed by grueling tests for a year or two and then another year for announcing the bids. Give a year for delays. That would effectively mean any contract signing will happen only in 2017 with 3 to 4 years for first delivery. Plenty of time for the F-35 to be ready.

here is deal. it's quite simple and logical. if you have another 80 aircrafts, regardless of navy or air force- why would you waste 3 years per your time line or even 1 year over evaluations and invites , if you don't intend to buy a 5th gen aircraft?

Tell me- who is going to come into the new RFP/ tender that is not going to be someone you have not already tested and rejected besides Rafale? the chinese?

 

[JayATL]

As If Uncle Sam is any different ... Remember Pokhran II?????

I need someone to translate this cryptic post above..there has to be some logical thought process , some critical thinking behind that one liner, I've missed. what does it have to do with what I posted?

maybe its word association . Okay I'll play it,

Remember Vegas! ?????

 

[Armand2REP]

I need someone to translate this cryptic post above..there has to be some logical thought process , some critical thinking behind that one liner, I've missed. what does it have to do with what I posted?

maybe its word association . Okay I'll play it,

Remember Vegas! ?????

He is referring to US sanctions on India after the nuke test. America is an unreliable supplier.

 

[Blackwater]

Does Rafael has thrust vectoring tech???? If not, will they introduce in later models?????

 

[p2prada]

here is deal. it's quite simple and logical. if you have another 80 aircrafts, regardless of navy or air force- why would you waste 3 years per your time line or even 1 year over evaluations and invites , if you don't intend to buy a 5th gen aircraft?

Tell me- who is going to come into the new RFP/ tender that is not going to be someone you have not already tested and rejected besides Rafale? the chinese?

The F-35 may have a chance for the Naval deal. Forget about the air force. It's not happening.

270MKI, 200+ PAKFA, 123 possible LCA, 200 Rafale and "250" AMCA along with existing Mig-29, Mirage-2000 and Jaguars. There is no place for the F-35 in the air force now. The MRCA aircraft haven't been tested by the Navy for their specific requirements. So the IAF MRCA cannot be compared. The Navy deal is bound to be cheaper as well considering they have a smaller budget and may not be looking for major ToT or industrial technology because of the smaller numbers to be ordered. Maybe they will simply order the Rafale-M and get it over with.

 

[Blackwater]

He is referring to US sanctions on India after the nuke test. America is an unreliable supplier.

true u cant trust americaa, take lesson from "rape of pakistan".. Though in future ,India and USA has no clash of interest but u never know.

 

[ace009]

I need someone to translate this cryptic post above..there has to be some logical thought process , some critical thinking behind that one liner, I've missed. what does it have to do with what I posted?

maybe its word association . Okay I'll play it,

Remember Vegas! ?????

I will translate - he means that in the future if India tests some more nuclear weapons, then the US Govt can bring more sanctions onto India, thereby screwing up any ToT/ Parts delivery that maybe vital for the maintenance/ induction of F-35 in IAF/ IN.

I for one am not sure if that is indeed going to happen in the future, now that USA considers India more of a strategic ally against China than Pakistan.
However, having said that, I would NOT like to have the F-35 as a IAF bird, simply because it is not a good "fighter" - it is a great strike fighter and can be good for SFC (maybe) and IN (surely).

But then again, I agree with JayATL - Trackwhack is whacky ....

Another phone call coming up - later dudes - I am VERY happy that the MMRCA is finally over - although I liked EF 51% over Rafale 49% (sorry Armand) - but I am happy either way ...

go Rafale!

 

[The Messiah]

I will translate - he means that in the future if India tests some more nuclear weapons, then the US Govt can bring more sanctions onto India, thereby screwing up any ToT/ Parts delivery that maybe vital for the maintenance/ induction of F-35 in IAF/ IN.

I for one am not sure if that is indeed going to happen in the future, now that USA considers India more of a strategic ally against China than Pakistan.
However, having said that, I would NOT like to have the F-35 as a IAF bird, simply because it is not a good "fighter" - it is a great strike fighter and can be good for SFC (maybe) and IN (surely).

But then again, I agree with JayATL - Trackwhack is whacky ....

Another phone call coming up - later dudes - I am VERY happy that the MMRCA is finally over - although I liked EF 51% over Rafale 49% (sorry Armand) - but I am happy either way ...

go Rafale!

To quote our dear brigadier ray "Frogs in the Well".

 

[JayATL]

He is referring to US sanctions on India after the nuke test. America is an unreliable supplier.

Ahh, well then shzit- India has already spent billions on critical hardware from the US. should have thought about that paranoia many years back.


The ONLY way you risk sanctions is if you go do another Nuke test ( every country has same risk, not just India)
Drop a Nuke as an aggressive / offensive attack. ( every country has same risk, not just India)
Attack NATO

short of that- India is not going to be a country that is a pariah in the world like Iran, Pakistan , Syria, Libya etc. those are terror sympathizers.

Can anyone here tell me how India, which is the most docile nation, peaceful nation, tolerant nation - going to be subjected to sanctions beyond the 3 ways I posted above?

 

[Mad Indian]

Only an idiot like you would open a tender, issue a RFP all over again to choose a 4 th gen aircraft. Or worse yet to choose one that lost to dassault. I had you and morons likewise in mind when I said I read comments advocating such.

some people will say basing the fighter paltform on americans is moronic..... We all know how "TRUSTED" partner you are for both us and Porkis.... not to mention your "Trusted" partnership with the Chinese when it was the Soviets you were afraid of... So no, thank You we dont want your f 35s :....

 

[utubekhiladi]

I had said months ago that rafale would win.

I have sources

no, i told it months ago.. i have sources too i also know how much money has been pocketed by whom in this deal

 

[Armand2REP]

Ahh, well then shzit- India has already spent billions on critical hardware from the US. should have thought about that paranoia many years back.

Not much critical hardware has India bought. C-130s, C-17s and P-8s are all transport/commercial aircraft. India won't even buy US comms gear. GoI has yet to select Apache as they are wary of what sanctions can do.

 

[JayATL]

some people will say basing the fighter paltform on americans is moronic..... We all know how "TRUSTED" partner you are for both us and Porkis.... not to mention your "Trusted" partnership with the Chinese when it was the Soviets you were afraid of... So no, thank You we dont want your f 35s :....

well your govt did not get that memo doc.

I never knew we were partners with china strategically. we may have chosen to ignore them or cajole them on occasion, but till last couple of decades we did not think much about china. and that too not in a postive way over the last two decades.

Btw Doc,regarding holding us to a standard?. Russians, whose GDP you about to surpass- did they always treat their partners well? atleast we did not fvuck up any NATO partners like russians did to some of their old soviet bloc amigos. So how you do figure us treating pakistan that was always a " cost " , a " beggar" to us- equates to how we will treat India.

 

[KS]

According to new policy we will not be giving an Indian name to the Rafale, at least AFAIK.

then what names we will be using ?

 

[JayATL]

Not much critical hardware has India bought. C-130s, C-17s and P-8s are all transport/commercial aircraft. India won't even buy US comms gear. GoI has yet to select Apache as they are wary of what sanctions can do.

This is utter rubbish , India govt has no such concerns. There are weapons packages that being brought directly and indirectly from the US. The size and scope of military cooperation and purchasing is growing . The intel sharing has been growing. Can you guys point me out to single concern in this regard espoused by your Def sec or PM?

while you are at it- show me a link to back up your claim about apache being a concern buy due to sanctions.