Know Your 'Rafale'

[Singh]

This should be Plan B >>

1. Fast induction of MK1 in great numbers, Concentrate on AMCA ....

2. Expansion of IAF AD regiments ....

3. Up-gradation of IAF airfields with bomb proof shelters in all Airbases ..

4. Expansion of Garud SF forces ..

Saar please to comment here :

1. http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/indian-air-force/67579-your-dream-iaf-composition-2025-a.html
2. http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/indian-air-force/67575-india-buys-rafale-more-come.html
3. http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/indian-air-force/67578-there-new-mmrca-tender.html

 

[ghost]

Will we buy more Rafales, if so under MMRCA old deal or under a new negotiation or flyaway independent of MMRCA which will either be scrapped or refloated ?

Confusion...

Sir,

All the discussion for additional flyaway Rafales or make in India of more Rafales will be GTG rather than being under MMRCA tender.Hope this clear your doubts.

नई दिल्ली। फ्रांस के लड़ाकू विमान राफेल की आलोचना कर रहे लोगों को आईबीएन7 पर देश के रक्षा मंत्री मनोहर पर्रिकर ने करारा जवाब दिया है। पर्रिकर ने आईबीएन7 से एक्सक्लूसिव बातचीत में साफ कहा कि ये विमान वायुसेना की जरूरत है। राफेल बेहतरीन क्षमता वाला विमान है और उसपर सवाल उठाना पूरी तरह से बेमानी है।

पर्रिकर ने राफेल को लेकर की जा रही आलोचनाओं का जवाब भी दिया और साफ कहा कि ये कहना गलत होगा कि राफेल विमान वायुसेना में इस वक्त मिग-21 विमानों का विकल्प है। पर्रिकर ने राफेल विमानों का विरोध कर रहे बीजेपी नेता सुब्रह्मण्यम स्वामी को समझाने की बात भी कही।

उन्होंने साफ कहा कि वो स्वामी से मिलेंगे और उन्हें समझाएंगे। गौरतलब है कि स्वामी ने इस सौदे के खिलाफ अदालत में जाने की धमकी दी थी। रक्षा मंत्री ने ये भी बताया कि मिग-21 की जगह देश में ही बन रहे हल्के विमान तेजस तैनात होंगे।

सुमित अवस्थी: 36 राफेल विमानों पर तो बात हो गई है लेकिन बाकी 90 विमानों के मुद्दे पर क्या बात हो रही है?

मनोहर पर्रिकर: मेक इन इंडिया पर दोनों सरकारों के साथ बात होने के बाद ही होगी। राफेल काफी महंगा विमान है। 126 विमानों के लिए 90 हजार करोड का सौदा होगा। सरकार से सरकार स्तर पर बात के बाद मेक इन इंडिया पर बात होगी। राफेल से मिग-21 रिप्लेस नहीं होगा, बाकी 90 विमानों पर हम चर्चा करेगें। तेजस से मिग-21 रिप्लेस होगा। 36 प्लेन खरीदने का निर्णय इन प्रिसिंपल हुआ है। दोनों देशों की टीमें बैठकर निर्णय लेगी कि कितने राफेल बनाने हैं। मिग 21 की जगह हल्का विमान तेजस लेगा।

सुमित अवस्थी: क्या ये सच है कि पिछले 10 सालों में दुनिया भर के रक्षा मंत्रालयों के मुकाबले हम पीछे छूट गए?

मनोहर पर्रिकर: मुझे किसी पर कीचढ़ फेंकने की आदत नहीं है, आरएफपी मॉडल से डील करना ही गलत है। पिछले दस सालों में किसी का किसी पर भरोसा नहीं रहा। एक रैंक, एक पेंशन का मुद्दा समाधान की ओर है। लेकिन कोर्ट के अंतरिम आदेश के कारण मुझे फैसला देखना होगा। अधिकतम 1 साल में हम एक रैंक, एक पेंशन को लागू कर सकेगें।

सुमित अवस्थी: राफेल सौदे को लेकर सुबह्यण्यम स्वामी कोर्ट जाने की बात कर रहे हैं?

मनोहर पर्रिकर: मैं सुबह्यण्यम स्वामी का सम्मान करता हूं। लेकिन मैं उन्हें एक दिन समझाने के लिए बुलाउंगा। उनका निर्णय इंस्टेट न्यूज पर आधारित हो सकता है।

सुमित अवस्थी: दिग्विजय सिंह के आरोपो पर क्या कहेंगे?

मनोहर पर्रिकर: हमारी डील क्लियर स्टेटमेंट पर है। हम आरएफपी से कम प्राइस पर बात करेगें। दोनों सरकारों के बीच सौदा क्या पहली बार हो रहा है।

http://khabar.ibnlive.in.com/news/139753/1

 

[tarunraju]

MMRCA would have lived, if Eurofighter Consortium hadn't low-balled after GoI announced that it 'preferred' Rafale. Killing MMRCA then became necessary, because buying Rafale through that tender would have meant CAG asking the government why it didn't choose the cheaper and equally good EFT, and then pulling out its red pen.

 

[Vinod Kumar]

What I see the best solution is india to buy invest heavily on air defence systems and buy su34 and su35s in good numbers and LCA should be produced around 25 a year.

 

[right wing]

There is a big question mark on the rfp system itself,so loved by upa,n which led only to more rfps and renewed rfps..infact,india dint buy anything actualy by rfp method in last 10yrs. All practical Buys were g to g! Be it c17s,c130js,p8s etc...the only rfp which we tried was augusta westland...chornia ----ed up that one.
in today's interview to dd,the rm has questioned the "vaunted rfp" system,and i guess...rfp system itself is dead.
that means our heli carriers,p75i etc etc all ultimately will be g2g...and yes,it is time saving that way
Thankfully,unlik the previous regime,people in this regime,seem to apply brains,when needed
Anyways,fr transfer of critical tech,govt involvement is a must....its a fallacy of the rfp system,that eurofighter cud even reach l2 bidder spot...a consortium,which cud in anyway nt be trusted with providing us the proper tech in the planes,lesve alone offsets or elementary tech transfer.
now with direct bargain,with france...we will save time,money n also get hal to learn to make tejas in nos,rather than morselling on licensed produced goods.

 

[archie]

I was expecting this .. 36 Planes is just to make sure we dont sour the relationship with france .. and a token of gratitude so that that industry survives .. In return Airbus wll invest since we helped Dassult keep the production line open.. Sound stratigic move .. All win in this arrangement

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Is this Mr manohar parikar word`s or yours ?, Provide link or source for this ..

1 All the Mig 21 will be replaced by either lca tejas or some other single engine plane(because of limited capability of lca range/load)

 

[Pulkit]

Is this Mr manohar parikar word`s or yours ?, Provide link or source for this ..

Kunal sir राफेल वायुसेना की जरूरत, सवाल बेमानीः पर्रिकर - IBN Khabar as showed in the above comment clearly states in the words of Manohar parrikar that

मिग 21 की जगह हल्का विमान तेजस लेगा।
Mig 21 will be replaced by lca tejas

 

[Kunal Biswas]

I specifically meant about the bold section of the particular sentence ..

Kunal sir राफेल वायुसेना की जरूरत, सवाल बेमानीः पर्रिकर - IBN Khabar as showed in the above comment clearly states in the words of Manohar parrikar that

मिग 21 की जगह हल्का विमान तेजस लेगा।
Mig 21 will be replaced by lca tejas

 

[indiatester]

This should be Plan B >>

1. Fast induction of MK1 in great numbers, Concentrate on AMCA ....

2. Expansion of IAF AD regiments ....

3. Up-gradation of IAF airfields with bomb proof shelters in all Airbases ..

4. Expansion of Garud SF forces ..

No Drones?

 

[ghost]

Is this Mr manohar parikar word`s or yours ?, Provide link or source for this ..

Mr manohar parikar.Source: interview on DD and IBN ,I have watched it on TV.He said LCA is very capable aircraft,he also said that all mig 21 would be replaced by tejas but then he also added that they might also go for a single engine fighter plane.(confusing) but as it is he said.

All the points mentioned in my first post are direct words of DM ,I have not added anything in it.

 

[nrj]

Would love to hear more of Subramanyam Swamy on this

I don't know what took Govt so long, I fell for Rafale at first sight back in 2013 paris air show.

But wouldn't the locally produced volume be cheaper? No Make-in-india ?

 

[Vinod Kumar]

it would had shocked the dassault and french govt scrapping the MMRCA that quick . the step has backfired on them i say they lost the indian market in abig way.

 

[Pulkit]

I specifically meant about the bold section of the particular sentence ..

Mr manohar parikar.Source: interview on DD and IBN ,which I saw on TV.

Thats not Manohar sir's word .
I think I read same phrase in IDRW articles cud not it track now.

 

[myana]

Great move by our RM and our govt.

Cancelling mmrca in entirety would have showcased India as bad nation to do business with and soured the relations with France bitterly.

Buying 2 squadrons by g2g mode ensured better bargain in least amount of time which will help IAF stop dwindling squadron numbers.

Today in interview RM to cnn-ibn at 8:00pm was reiterated Rafale was never a replacement for Mig and its replacement was Tejas or any other single engine plane.

As we dont have many options in single engine planes we can safely assume all migs will be replaced by Tejas. So Tejas will produced in large numbers but question still remains how many of each version will be.

 

[Pulkit]

Would love to hear more of Subramanyam Swamy on this

I don't know what took Govt so long, I fell for Rafale at first sight back in 2013 paris air show.

But wouldn't the locally produced volume be cheaper? No Make-in-india ?

Looks can be deceptive.
Rafale is not fit to be used in Indian scenario.

What took it so long... rafale not sticking to the original commitments ,then some greedy ppl at our end wants to go ahead with this deal and brought us into a fix where we cud not abandon it.

No it will not be cheaper when produced locally when u add the TOT cost , Training labour cost, setup/Infrastucture cost etc etc.

 

[ashdoc]

So now india will just buy rafales outright instead of trying licence manufacture them in india . this is big failure for HAL . it is the inability of HAL to absorb such high technology that led to this .

 

[nrj]

No it will not be cheaper when produced locally when u add the TOT cost , Training labour cost, setup/Infrastucture cost etc etc.

Depends on how many units you operate. Maintenance cost will burn holes into budgets. Look at Su-30 to MKI experience. Its always advisable to incur fixed cost when scaling up.

 

[Pulkit]

Depends on how many units you operate. Maintenance cost will burn holes into budgets. Look at Su-30 to MKI experience. Its always advisable to incur fixed cost when scaling up.

Fixed cost is dependent on fixed number
Good and reasonable inventory of spares.

And i thought you were referring to Manufacturing and not the overall cost.

Even then 50-60 aircrafts is a good number to have an economical maintenance.

Production is all together a different prospect.

 

[PaliwalWarrior]

I will add my 2cents to this.

1. Rafael was shortlisted by IAF so there was no way that GOI could go in for another aircraft.
2.Gripen was never in the race. LCA fits in the role.
3.Whether Ambani comes in the picture or not is not our concern. That is the share of Dassault. The pie is fixed, who gets what allocation is for the French to decide.
4. French Govt. has offered longer maintenance support, that is very important, perhaps the most important point considering the small number of aircraft on order.

well as of now ''dasult has not offered anything

everything is requested by indain gov tto french govt