Know Your 'Rafale'

ersakthivel

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I will add my 2cents to this.

1. Rafael was shortlisted by IAF so there was no way that GOI could go in for another aircraft.
2.Gripen was never in the race. LCA fits in the role.
3.Whether Ambani comes in the picture or not is not our concern. That is the share of Dassault. The pie is fixed, who gets what allocation is for the French to decide.
4. French Govt. has offered longer maintenance support, that is very important, perhaps the most important point considering the small number of aircraft on order.
rafale along with Typhoon was shortlisted by IAF,after Dassault and EADS accepted MMRCA RFP rules.

but now dassault is reneging on all RFP promises regarding TOT, penalties for timely delivery,guarantee for HAl built Rafales, which means their shortlisting itself is null and void, because if they straight away stated their reservations in 2007 , while responding to RFP, IAF would never have evaluated them at all.

The rafale selection was only due to the lower l1 price ,(by increasing this substantially even that qualification fails)

With Dassalut reneging on all these promises by first floating RIl as Jv partner and revising L1 price substantially(Euro has only fallen against Dollar in 2012-2014 period and considering the low inflation, there is no justification to attribut price revision to labor cost and material cost) there is no credibility to say that IAF short listing of dassault is valid.

And no one knows how IAF evaluated Rafale either. it's most potent combo of ASEA-meteor was never demonstrated to IAF MMRCA team in flight testing.
 
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ersakthivel

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RAFALE JET FIGHTERS DEAL OPENS PANDORA'S BOX, AMBANIS EMERGE AS POSSIBLE BENEFICIARIES

NEW DELHI: Prime Minister Narendra Modi has in one brilliant, and totally unprecedented, stroke killed several birds in France. By intervening to clear the way for the delivery of 36 "ready to fly" Rafale fighter jets the PM has taken a decisive decision that on the face of it addresses the "critical operational requirements" of the Indian Air Force, but actually opens what could be a Pandora's Box of bonanza's for the private defence sector( read Ambani) in India, and a revival of Dassault Aviation that might have shut shop otherwise. It is, of course, also intended as a signal of 'more to come' for world governments seeking a slice of India's big defence pie.

Actually Modi has closed a festering sore called scam ridden MMRCA tender.

it is foolish to say that dassault was saved just by this 36 fighters!! there are many oil rich countries that want non russian fighters free of American control. typhoon makers are too closely allied with US, so Dassault will find markets. If not french airforce will increase its order. French wont allow closure of Dassault anyday.
The tender for the the 126 jet fighters was floated by the Ministry of Defence in 2007. Dassault was selected after the usual procedure to supply the Rafale jet fighters at an estimated cost of $ 20 billion. Under the agreement it was decided that 18 of the fighters would be supplied in 'ready to fly' condition, and the remaining 108 manufactured with Hindustan Aeronautics Limited in India. The deal got bogged down over differences centering around the French resistance to the Indian demand that Dassault take responsibility for the HAL produced fighters and stand guarantee for the same. There was no breakthrough till date with both sides stuck on the negotiations that were making no headway.
As I said the whole blah blah about MMRCA tender with TOT and all is just a cover up to bleed twenty billion dollar from india by the previous UPA joint. With IAF unwilling to order more Su-30 MKIs and Tejas mk2 modi govt has no other go. And once this 36 fighters arrive at IAF, the GOI will have more options like TEjas mk2 and FGFA. Note the FGFA contract too is being speeded up. So scraping of the MMRCA means Dassault loses out on the 200 plus planes , with no commanding negotiation position after five years time(time needed to deliver the 36 rafales.I dont hink they are going to arrive in two years at all)
PM Modi arrived in France and in a grand gesture announced "Keeping in mind critical operational necessity of fighter jets in India, I have talked to him(French President Francois Hollande) and requested for 36 Rafale jets in fly-away condition as quickly as possible under government-to-government deal."

The PM's direct intervention has, thus, effectively closed the earlier file that has been hanging fire between the two sides for three years, and converted the deal into a government-to-government transaction for what is a first for India in its military dealings with France. And as experts here point out, the rules of the game have thus, changed completely taking the deal out of the hands of the bureaucrats and the Ministry of Defence and placing it in the hands of the political leadership that can now direct the framing of new rules for this as it goes along.

The MMRCA file was not hanging fire, it was hanging scams that will be pulled out by CAG and land ministers in jail. And babus of defence ministry never had any control over MMRCA deal. If that was the case UPA govt could easily have cancelled the deal in 2014 , when it became apparent that dassault was reneging on all promises. The MOD babus who coined a deal that does not allow l2 to re enter the deal once L1 reneges on commitmnets will be the first one to land in Tihar jail , if GOI went through with MMRCA deal accepting Dassault's conditions.
For instance, there is no clarity whether 1) the 126 aircraft deal has been reduced now to just the 36 aircraft that the PM has spoken of; 2) if not, will the remaining 90 fighter jets be manufactured with HAL or will the deal be re-negotiated with the private sector and Dassault. There is no clarity on any of this so far.
The reason that there is no clarity is, the deal is effectively dead. SO how can anyone give clarity? It will be said once Pm comes home or will be announced after an year of two of useless negotiations in CNC.
Hence, the informed speculation that the deal can now be turned away from public sector participation at the Indian end, to private collaboration between an Indian company and Dassault. Reliance business honcho Mukesh Ambani was present in France and has already signed an agreement with Dassault---quietly and without much fanfare---in 2012 itself, after Dassault was selected to supply the Rafale fighter jets in a deal that had almost the entire defence manufacturing world competing for it.
Which "informed speculation" states that indian private sector will replace HAl here, when the whole MMRCA deal is now almost brain dead?
RIl can supply some sub assemblies to Dassault, if it agrees or quietly close it down. Noway it is going to get into 36 IAF rafales
Dassault Aviation in a statement at the time had admitted entering into an "MoU with Reliance Industries Ltd, India's largest private sector company, for pursuing strategic opportunities of collaboration in the area of complex manufacturing and support in India." The Congress government was in power at the time, and the agreement in the defence sector had been approved by the government. There was mention in the media of the possibility of Reliance becoming---through collaboration on the Rafale deal---the biggest Indian player in combat jets. However, the UPA government at some point appeared to have got cold feet and insisted on Dassault not only working with public sector HAL but also standing guarantee for the combat fighters, a sore point that held up the agreement till date.
That was not the sore point, it is only the dream by author, just google to find out what were the sore points on MMRCA!!
There has been no announcement as yet on Reliance, and defence experts expect this to be a piecemeal deal over the next weeks or even months. In fact, while Mukesh Ambani has signed the MoU with Dassault, his younger brother Anil Ambani has in what is being seen in defence circles as a complimenting, and certainly not contradictory, move acquired controlling stakes in the Gujarat based Pipavav Defence and Offshore Engineering in March this year in what is a whopping over Rs 2000 crore deal. Anil Ambani in his remarks after the acquisition said that this was a "unique opportunity for Reliance Group to participate in Prime Minister Narendra Modi's 'Make in India' programme for the high growth defence sector."

An what is the connection between Anil's pipavav ddeal and Modi's 36 rafale buys? Only god and the journo knows.
PM Modi has also brought fresh life to Dassault Aviation that, without this deal could have been looking at closure. The 36 jet fighters alone give the loss making French company a new lease of life, with costs for India now expected to touch new heights. The maintenance and sustenance of the 36 aircraft that will now be done by Dassault of course with a price attached, will rev up the figures substantially as spare parts and the infrastructure to do so will be required for at least 40 years while the squadrons are in operation.

Once again Dassault wont close down for the lack of just 36 fighters. Stupid logic like this must stop. And french maintenance will be monumentally costly. but it will be only for 36 fighters that were so overwhelmingly desired by IAF, not for 126 MMRCA white elephants.
Interestingly as experts pointed out, if the rules of the game were to be changed in this rather dramatic fashion the Prime Minister should have taken a serious look at some of the other offers on the anvil. More so as under the new order these might have proven to be more cost effective than the Dassault deal as it is emerging now. For instance, Swedish defence company Gripen that had also put in a bid for the 126 fighter jets had offered to transfer entire manufacturing units to India.
this reveals the journo's total lack of understanding of the affairs at hand. With tejas mk2 there is no need for gripen in IAF.
This would have cut costs substantially, and was at least worth exploring now that India has suddenly decided to award a contract of 36 fighter jets (instead of 18) in a 'ready to fly' condition with no word whether HAL would be co-producing it now.
What I say was that MMRCA rules are total crap. How can you shut l2 totally out even when L1 refuses to comply?
How could you let l1 revise financial bids thereby negating the concept called L1 itself?
Why couldn't negotiations be finished before financial bids lapsed?
MMRCA was not a neat set of integrity based rules. It was total crap tender that is bound to fail.
The devil in this deal is in the details that have still to emerge.


RAFALE JET FIGHTERS DEAL OPENS PANDORA'S BOX, AMBANIS EMERGE AS POSSIBLE BENEFICIARIES
This article is total crap.because if the journo has any trace of honesty , he should have included the following passage in his article about the state of affairs in IAF,which led to removing the defence ministry babus from 36 rafale buy ,and the junking of scam ridden MMRCA negotiations by Modi govt. The aim was not to benefit RIL but to secure indian airspace in future.
Painting a grim picture of India's combat readiness, a Parliamentary panel on Monday dropped a bombshell by revealing that the force levels of the Indian Air Force are down to a mere 25 fighter squadrons. The IAF till recently had maintained it had 32-34 squadrons with about 18 planes each.

But the revelation by the standing committee on defence in a report tabled in Parliament indicates the IAF's traditional air superiority over Pakistan may have been severely diluted.

India requires 45 fighter squadrons to counter a "two-front collusive threat," but the panel found that the air force has only 25 active fighter units.

"Moreover, 14 of these squadrons are equipped with MiG-21 and MiG – 27 which will retire between 2015- 2024. Thus the strength will be reduced to just 11 squadrons by 2024..our capability has already come down," the panel said.
 
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Zebra

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At the end of the day they got a good aircraft at good price.
 
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halloweene

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Ok, elt's put some things clear. The issue is not the price of RAfale, but the cost of Rafale produced in India. I think i saod earlier on that topic that the cost of the oven to make M-88 blades is about 100 millio dollars.etc. If any company want its products liabilty insured by a MOE, it has to stick to industrial set up of "parent" company. And it has a cost. On the other hand, HAL and subcontractors qould learn about one of the most sophisticated production tools (see Dassault systems products). Win win, but costly
 

sgarg

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Honestly HAL should focus on LCA and AMCA. What is the big value add for HAL in Rafale?? This deal was set back so much due to insertion of HAL in the tender.

If Reliance can assemble the planes and provide reliable after sales service, then let them! What is the problem.

We want private sector to get involved in defence manufacturing. This is the best way to ease them in. Why HAL should monopolize screw-driver tech??
 

ersakthivel

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Ok, elt's put some things clear. The issue is not the price of RAfale, but the cost of Rafale produced in India. I think i saod earlier on that topic that the cost of the oven to make M-88 blades is about 100 millio dollars.etc. If any company want its products liabilty insured by a MOE, it has to stick to industrial set up of "parent" company. And it has a cost. On the other hand, HAL and subcontractors qould learn about one of the most sophisticated production tools (see Dassault systems products). Win win, but costly
dassault has no ownership on those ovens. Do they?
Engines are made by separate company.Snecma i think. So things like ASEA radar and Engine blades were never under TOT regime from the start. because none of them are under the control of Dassault. TOT is for only making composite airframe parts in automated way and other airframe non core stuff
 

sob

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Ok, elt's put some things clear. The issue is not the price of RAfale, but the cost of Rafale produced in India. I think i saod earlier on that topic that the cost of the oven to make M-88 blades is about 100 millio dollars.etc. If any company want its products liabilty insured by a MOE, it has to stick to industrial set up of "parent" company. And it has a cost. On the other hand, HAL and subcontractors qould learn about one of the most sophisticated production tools (see Dassault systems products). Win win, but costly
People who have experience in the real world, will understand the points that you have raised. These are complex issues and further complicated by the media.
 

sob

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dassault has no ownership on those ovens. Do they?
Engines are made by separate company.
Even if the engines or the ovens are made by a separate company, they will not supply to a third party stuff with similar specifications.

All MIL specs. components and parts come with a strong IP protection agreement, one cannot just sell to anybody. Even HAL had to wait for many years before they could re- engineer some of the components for the Mig 21.
 

sob

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Honestly HAL should focus on LCA and AMCA. What is the big value add for HAL in Rafale?? This deal was set back so much due to insertion of HAL in the tender.

If Reliance can assemble the planes and provide reliable after sales service, then let them! What is the problem.

We want private sector to get involved in defence manufacturing. This is the best way to ease them in. Why HAL should monopolize screw-driver tech??
I completely agree with you. If between Reliance and Dassault they have agreement on the quality, the maintenance support and also the final cost then why should we bother.
 

akshay m

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mmrca dead dead
It's Final: #MMRCA Dead, Rafales Coming
http://http://www.livefistdefence.com/2015/04/its-final-mmrca-dead-rafales-coming.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
After a decade of speculation, intrigue, a generous measure of behind-the-scenes drama, finally some ironic clarity on the 'mother of all deals', India's massive combat jet acquisition effort, the M-MRCA. After committing to purchase 36 flyaway Rafales from Dassault last week, the Indian government today made it supremely clear that the M-MRCA process is effectively dead after careening earthward in a death spiral for over three years.

In a series of tweets today, MoD spokesperson Sitanshu Kar quoted Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar on the MMRCA:


[tweet]587595100982644738[/tweet]

[tweet]587592386110304256[/tweet]

[tweet]587590142459691009[/tweet]

[tweet]587590142459691009[/tweet]

[tweet]587591364092674048[/tweet]
 
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ersakthivel

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France wins over India in Rafale game

Sridhar kumaraswamy.
A few DDM gems on MMRCA.

Dassault, initially, had reservations on the role of state-run HAL as lead integrator for the 108 Rafale aircraft to be built in India under technology transfer from France, had the MMRCA RFP acquisition process finally gone through.

French sources told this newspaper that Dassault could not be held responsible if there was any delay in timelines for manufacture on the part of HAL. There were also reportedly some concerns raised on accountability. There were earlier reports of some differences between India and Dassault over the pricing of the deal, which could have been pegged at around $20 billion. The MMRCA RFP had stipulated that only 18 of the proposed 126 fighters would be acquired in "flyaway" condition.

India perhaps assumed that sooner or later, the French would be desperate enough to come around in order to bag the multi-billion dollar deal.

But in the end, it was "critical operational necessity" that compelled India to go in for a separate government-to-government agreement.
this was not india's childish assumption, but non negotiable RFP rules which Dassault accepted to participate in MMRCA contract. If at all Dassault had any reservation on these they should not have participated in the tender at all.. IAF would have chosen another fighter whose maker would have been faithful to those RFP rules.The DDM journo couldn't understand that or putting a different spin on these matter shows what our DDMs are reporting as truth is not truth at all.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...elp-end-Dassault-row/articleshow/46892939.cms

The fast-track acquisition of 36 Rafale fighters from France will certainly act as a shot in the arm for the beleaguered IAF, which was fast-losing its traditional air combat superiority even over Pakistan
A lie . because more Su-30 MKis and even more tejas mk1 orders will be more than enough to arrest squadron strength.
Moreover, roughly one-third of the existing fighters — virtually obsolete MiG-21s and MiG-27s as well as relatively new Sukhoi-30MKIs dogged by serviceability problems — are operationally unavailable at any given time to tear into the skies. Successive IAF chiefs have repeatedly sounded the red-alert to stress the country's rapidly-eroding air combat power but to no avail till now.
Su-30 MKi's problems are nothing to do with the fighter , but due to intentionally low maintenance of spares by IAF. With in ten months NDA govt brought the availability of Su-30 MKi fleet to 65 percent by addressing this problem and their target is getting it to 75 percent by the end of the year on par with any other modern fighter.
It will be illogical for IAF, already saddled with seven different types of fighters, to induct only 36 Rafales since each jet requires its own logistical and maintenance infrastructure. But a big question mark continues to hang over the MMRCA project, with seemingly irreconcilable differences between India and French aviation firm Dassault over the production costs as well as responsibility for the 108 Rafales to be manufactured by Hindustan Aeronautics after technology transfer.

With the coming in of two fighter type rafale, and tejas three fighter types Mig-21s,Mig-27s and mig-23s are going out. SO logistic problem is getting reduced, not increased.
Meanwhile IAF did not cite this a reason and phase out the 40 mirage-2000, instead they went for 45 million dollar per plane upgrade on them even thoug it was"difficult to maintain logistical lines for just 40 mirages."
Government sources, however, contend the outright purchase of 36 Rafales will work to resolve the pricing issues with Dassault. "The first 36 jets may come without technology transfer but the modified MMRCA project will be under Make in India," said a source.

this lie has been busted by DM just now. These 36 fighter deal is not going to lead more time for MMRCA. Infact this deal is the end of MMRCA in total contrast to the views espoused by journo.
As a hedge against the delays in both the MMRCA and indigenous Tejas light combat aircraft projects, the government has also re-worked the earlier plan to co-design and co-produce the FGFA project with Russia.
Another lie tejas, FGFA and MMRCA have nothing to do with each other , all separate programs with separate aims.
And to top it all THE Hindu's today editorial mildly reprimanded Modi for signing this 36 deal in secrecy, opposing it on the ground there is no TOT!!!
 
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ersakthivel

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MMRCA scrapped. So it is the end of the gravy train.

And IAF's bluff there is no plan-b for rafale exposed.

there will be plan B.

that will be announced.

Dm Parrikar in ten moths solved this vexed issue called MMRCA without submerging his ministry on monumental MMRCA bribe charges.
 

power_monger

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livefist: MMRCA is dead now

All in day. Parrikar bang on. | RFP for 126 Rafales is now history.
* A car can not run on two paths simultaneously.
* Negotiation under the existing RfP had 'gone into a loop with no solution in sight.'
* 36 Rafale fighter aircraft to be acquired in fly away condition thru a separate G-2-G negotiation.
* G-2-G route better than the RFP path for acquisition of strategic platforms
 

ghost

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1 All the Mig 21 will be replaced by either lca tejas or some other single engine plane(because of limited capability of lca range/load)

2 MMRCA is dead, 36 will be bought GTG then there will be further talk to make in India 90 rafales or directly purchase from France under GTG .If this fails then it will be replaced by lca mk2(if it is able to meet foc in time,or else some other plane will be bought for mmrca.)

3 36 rafale bought under GTG deal will be much cheaper and at better terms than original rfp.

@manohar parikar
 
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Lions Of Punjab

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Re: Dassault Rafale wins MMRCA!

THE RAFALE CONUNDRUM: LESSONS TO BE LEARNT


by Admiral Arun Prakash

Image result for Admiral Prakash
The Indian decision to purchase 36 Rafale multi-role jet fighters from France in 'fly-away' condition will no doubt redress a critical inventory gap for the Indian Air Force (IAF) but it may turn out to be a Pyrrhic victory for French aerospace giant Dassault Aviation rather than the 'coup' it is being made out to be. This is a complex issue, with serious implications for India's security and cannot be viewed in simplistic win-lose terms.

Aircraft attrition, obsolescence and declining numbers constitute a triple spectre that haunts every air chief, making him ask for more. The IAF's problem has been aggravated by the fact that a significant proportion of its combat strength consisted of the Soviet-era MiG-21s ,of which about 850 were licence-produced by HAL (Hindustan Aeronautics Limited). Its planned indigenous replacement, the Tejas Light Combat Aircraft, promised by the DRDO (Defence Research and Development Organization) by the early 1990s, has come 25 years late and is too little, too late.

Dwindling numbers, coupled with the operational challenge posed by rapidly modernising air forces of neighbouring China and Pakistan, led the IAF to decide that a quick-fix for its problems was to induct additional numbers of the French Mirage-2000. This aircraft had an excellent record in IAF service and Vayu Bhavan, the air headquarters, felt that it could become the future medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) not only bridging the gap between the Su-30 and the Tejas but also compensating for the eventual de-induction of the MiG-21s.

However, the Indian Ministry of Defence (MoD) was aware that Dassault was on the verge of closing down the Mirage-2000 production-line and switching to the more advanced Mirage-2000-5 version, a substantially different machine. Refusing to treat the IAF proposal as a repeat order, they insisted that a fresh staff requirement be drawn up and followed with a "request for proposals" (RFP).

Once responses to the RFP were examined, the IAF wasted no time in initiating a rigorous evaluation process in which each of the six competing aircraft were assessed over the full range of maintenance and operational criteria laid down in the staff requirement.

However, the IAF had rendered an already complex process even more problematic by casting its net too wide. The six aircraft, short-listed for evaluation, fell into conspicuously different categories of vintage, weight, sophistication and cost, making it truly a contentious contest between apples and oranges.

More than a decade after initiation of the MMRCA proposal, the MoD declared in January 2012 that the Rafale had been selected for induction into the IAF. A letter of intent for acquisition of 126 aircraft was issued to Dassault Aviation - with 18 to be built in France and the rest to be assembled and manufactured by in India by HAL. Contract negotiations commenced soon after, with the programme costs being estimated at between $12-15 billion.

Although there has been no official pronouncement, in the 27 months since the conclusion of the MMRCA competition, negotiations appeared to be deadlocked with no contract in sight. Media speculation has focused on Dassault's lack of confidence in the ability of HAL to attain requisite aviation manufacturing standards. The direct implications are that Dassault will not stand guarantee for HAL-produced Rafales and there will be significant cost escalations with figures of $22-30 billion being mentioned.

Given HAL's dismal track record of poor quality control in every product it has delivered to the three Services, Dassault's reservations are understandable. However, this issue should have been addressed by the French company before it submitted its bid and not at the stage of contract negotiations. This appears to be almost a replay of the serious problems faced by the MoD in the Scorpene submarine project. It that latter case, M/S Thales of France invoked some fine print in the contract after it had been signed in good faith, leading to huge time delays and cost overruns. Obviously, there is need for caution when dealing with French firms.

The hiatus in conclusion of the Rafale contract has led to conjecture in the media, perhaps fuelled by losers in the MMRCA competition. Apart from picking holes in the Rafale, some commentators have castigated the IAF for a flawed force-planning process, focusing on three issues: the high cost of the Rafale, especially when compared to the 'formidable' Sukhoi-30 MK, which awaits further upgradation, with dire prediction that the hidden costs of the Rafale project could bankrupt future defence budgets; the 'operational niche' into which the IAF intends to place the Rafale seems odd, given that it has the Sukhoi-30 and Tejas at the 'heavy' and 'light' ends of the combat spectrum with the Indo-Russian 5th generation aircraft (PAK-FA) on the horizon; and aggravation of the IAF's logistical nightmare when an 8th type is added to its existing inventory of seven combat aircraft of Russian, British, French, and Indian origin.

Some of the observations merit the IAF's consideration. However, all is not monochromatic and four points deserve objective review. The egregious failure of the DRDO and India's defence industrial complex to meet the operational needs of the IAF is matched only by the detachment shown by the latter towards the indigenous aeronautics industry.

Had the IAF assumed positive "ownership" of aircraft projects, starting with the HT-2 trainer and the HF-24 Marut fighter, it may not have had to seek a basic trainer, an advanced trainer and a MMRCA aircraft from abroad today. Even at this late stage a Directorate of Aircraft Design in Air HQ would help create a symbiotic linkage between the Air Staff and India's aerospace industry.

The persistent clamour for aircraft numbers or squadrons sounds convincing when cited in the context of a 'two-front' war. However, these numbers were stipulated in an era when two squadrons of MiG-21s could have been bought for the price of a single Rafale today. Conversely, the versatile capabilities and the invulnerability of a modern multi-role combat aircraft make it the equivalent of a dozen or more of its predecessors. The emphasis now must shift from dumb numbers to smart capability.

There is food for thought in the fact that against the IAF's strength of 750-800 combat aircraft, the Royal Air Force and the French Air Forc, undertake world-wide commitments with just 225 aircraft of two types each -- the FAF with the Rafale and Mirage-2000 and the RAF with Tornadoes and Typhoons.

The above comparison is not really fair to the IAF since most of its inventory is of foreign origin. There is no guarantee, whatsoever, of how many aircraft will be available for combat on any day, given that the non-availability of even a small imported component can instantly ground an aircraft fleet. Here it must be noted that the Russian system has, despite repeated promises of reform, been the worst culprit for the past 25 years and its abysmal product-support has debilitated all three Services.

The fifth generation fighter aircraft (FGFA) or PAK-FA, being touted as an Indo-Russian joint project, is yet another example of rank bad faith on Russia's part. Based on a Russian pledge that they would share the design, engineering, testing and intellectual property in a 50-50 proportion, India was asked to contribute US $300 million, up-front, and 35 percent of the $15 billion project cost eventually. While details are under wraps, currently three prototype PAK-FAs are already flying in Russia with no Indian participation or contribution. This project promises to become a clone of the BrahMos; a Russian product that carries an ersatz Indo-Russian trademark.

Eyebrows may be raised as to why a major announcement regarding outright purchase of 36 French-built Rafales should have been made in Paris rather than New Delhi. It is understood that the critical capability gap of the IAF compelled this expedient decision and to that extent it is to be cautiously welcomed.

However, delivering 36 Rafales to the IAF in two years is only possible if some aircraft are withdrawn from French service and refurbished, as was done in the case of British supplied Jaguars in 1978-79. This development reflects French politico-commercial compulsions and perhaps Modi's persuasive skills.

If this is just a modification of the original MMRCA deal to expedite deliveries, it will further complicate the already complex negotiations and render a severe blow to the 'Make in India' campaign as well as the MoD's 'Defence Offsets' initiative. Presumably the whole contract will need to be re-drafted and re-negotiated.

However, if it is a change of heart on India's part, it may constitute a good all-round compromise. While partially satisfying French commercial interests, it permits India an honourable exit from the Rafale commitment; allowing it to review other options. The IAF, too, can look forward to an early boost for its combat capability, without being saddled with a crippling financial liability.

However, India will keep encountering such conundrums unless the politician acquires comprehension of complex security issues and installs a professionally competent organization for acquisition of military hardware in MoD.

The Rafale conundrum: Lessons to be learnt (Comment: Special to IANS) (Superseding earlier version, with important corrections in Para 4) | Business Standard News
 

Lions Of Punjab

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Re: Dassault Rafale wins MMRCA!

1 All the Mig 21 will be replaced by either lca tejas or some other single engine plane(because of limited capability of lca range/load)

2 MMRCA is dead, 36 will be bought GTG then there will be further talk to make in India 90 rafales or directly purchase from France under GTG .If this fails then it will be replaced by lca mk2(if it is able to meet foc in time,or else some other plane will be bought for mmrca.)

3 36 rafale bought under GTG deal will be much cheaper and at better terms than original rfp.

@manohar parikar
why to go for 90 rafales ? Lca Mk 2 will be a sane choice .
 
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ghost

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Re: Dassault Rafale wins MMRCA!

why to go for 90 rafales ? Lca Mk 2 will be a sane choice .
Sir,

Probably lca mk2 will be a sane choice ,but this is what our defence minister said and I am sure he has his own valid reasons for it.Moreover LCA MK2 is still on papers .
 

Singh

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Will we buy more Rafales, if so under MMRCA old deal or under a new negotiation or flyaway independent of MMRCA which will either be scrapped or refloated ?

Confusion...
 

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