Not possible. Rafale was declared L1 under pressure from Gandhi family. The paperwork did not make it L1. NOBODY in the current government will take responsibility for previous government's mistake.
Know Your 'Rafale'
- Thread starter A.V.
- Start date
That is YOUR opinion. Let IAF chief say that openly.
Prometheus
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http://www.business-standard.com/article/economy-policy/rafale-proposal-effectively-dead-as-dassault-bid-not-cheapest-115021600056_1.html
India will not buy Rafale jets from France due to high prices - media
16/02/2015 RIA Novosti
India will not be buying French Rafale fighter jets due to their high prices, the Monday edition of Business Standard reported, citing sources in the Indian Ministry of Defense.
Earlier, Indian media reported that the Ministry of Defense of India might refuse to purchase 126 fighters for its Air Force from Rafale, which won the tender in 2012, and instead buy the Russian Su-30MKI.
According to the Business Standard, three years of negotiations between representatives of Rafale and the Ministry of Defense of India revealed that the proposal submitted by the Dassault Company was more expensive than that of its tender competitor – the Eurofighter Typhoon, and not cheaper, as the Ministry of Defense initially announced on January 31, 2012.
"No representative of the Ministry of Defense can approve a contract with Dassault, which will now surpass $20 billion, seeing that the Rafale is now the most inexpensive option," said an official close to the committee negotiating the contract terms.
пуÑтым не оÑтавлÑÑ‚ÑŒ!!
Su-30MKI vs. Rafale: A virtual battle
According to the publication, the tender for the purchase of 126 medium multi-role fighters was the first time that the Indian Ministry of Defense has calculated the lifecycle cost of the aircraft, rather than just the purchase price. This meant that the winner of the tender was to be the fighter jet with the lowest overall costs in terms of purchase price, operation, and maintenance during the entire 30-40 years of the aircraft's service life, rather than just the lowest initial price.
"The Ministry of Defense, in considering the incomplete conceptual design project from Dassault, incorrectly judged the Rafale as being the cheaper option. Now, three years later, when we finally received the clear figures from the French, we discovered that India would be spending significantly more than was originally supposed," said the publication's source.
Meanwhile, Indian media are writing that the Indian defense establishment is now seriously thinking about dropping the French fighter jet in favor of the better Russian Su-30MKI, which Indian pilots are familiar with, and which is being assembled under license at an Indian company Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL). Indian Defense Minister Manohar Parrikar also noted the fact that the Su-30MKI meets the requirements of the Indian Air Force. However, the defense establishment has not officially confirmed that it is considering replacing the Rafale with the Su-30MKI
India will not buy Rafale jets from France due to high prices - media | Russia & India Report
India will not buy Rafale jets from France due to high prices - media
16/02/2015 RIA Novosti
India will not be buying French Rafale fighter jets due to their high prices, the Monday edition of Business Standard reported, citing sources in the Indian Ministry of Defense.
Earlier, Indian media reported that the Ministry of Defense of India might refuse to purchase 126 fighters for its Air Force from Rafale, which won the tender in 2012, and instead buy the Russian Su-30MKI.
According to the Business Standard, three years of negotiations between representatives of Rafale and the Ministry of Defense of India revealed that the proposal submitted by the Dassault Company was more expensive than that of its tender competitor – the Eurofighter Typhoon, and not cheaper, as the Ministry of Defense initially announced on January 31, 2012.
"No representative of the Ministry of Defense can approve a contract with Dassault, which will now surpass $20 billion, seeing that the Rafale is now the most inexpensive option," said an official close to the committee negotiating the contract terms.
пуÑтым не оÑтавлÑÑ‚ÑŒ!!
Su-30MKI vs. Rafale: A virtual battle
According to the publication, the tender for the purchase of 126 medium multi-role fighters was the first time that the Indian Ministry of Defense has calculated the lifecycle cost of the aircraft, rather than just the purchase price. This meant that the winner of the tender was to be the fighter jet with the lowest overall costs in terms of purchase price, operation, and maintenance during the entire 30-40 years of the aircraft's service life, rather than just the lowest initial price.
"The Ministry of Defense, in considering the incomplete conceptual design project from Dassault, incorrectly judged the Rafale as being the cheaper option. Now, three years later, when we finally received the clear figures from the French, we discovered that India would be spending significantly more than was originally supposed," said the publication's source.
Meanwhile, Indian media are writing that the Indian defense establishment is now seriously thinking about dropping the French fighter jet in favor of the better Russian Su-30MKI, which Indian pilots are familiar with, and which is being assembled under license at an Indian company Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL). Indian Defense Minister Manohar Parrikar also noted the fact that the Su-30MKI meets the requirements of the Indian Air Force. However, the defense establishment has not officially confirmed that it is considering replacing the Rafale with the Su-30MKI
India will not buy Rafale jets from France due to high prices - media | Russia & India Report
halloweene
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I go one straight from Egypt : "no worries"
halloweene
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you want a named source? NP!
Services on board on Chief of Defence Staff, says MoS Defence
Much more reliable than usual Shukla babbling...
If the Su-30MKI is actually a better relacement for the Rafale.....then why have the MMRCA contest and spend years evaluating it anyway.
After all the IAF has had years of Su-30 experience, so why bother looking at other planes.
By the way.....if you are going to replace Rafale with Su30-MKI, then what is the life-cycle cost of the Su-30mki ?
Dont tell me its less than Rafale or F-18, or the Eurofighter.
This whole MMRCA saga sounds like bumbling beaurocratic mess.
After all the IAF has had years of Su-30 experience, so why bother looking at other planes.
By the way.....if you are going to replace Rafale with Su30-MKI, then what is the life-cycle cost of the Su-30mki ?
Dont tell me its less than Rafale or F-18, or the Eurofighter.
This whole MMRCA saga sounds like bumbling beaurocratic mess.
prohumanity
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Its time to scrap Rafael....this game is getting boring and outdated. Lets consider again SU-35 or SU-30 MKI ....time tested and dependable supplier. No point in wasting more time for Rafaels.
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sir, Simple Answers
The Su 30 MKI won't do missions what Rafale do
The Rafale is an omni role while the Su 30 is an Air superiority fighter with Limited Ground attacking capability,
Lions Of Punjab
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Dassault may abandon $20-bn MMRCA deal
Dassault Aviation, maker of Rafale fighter jet which is in exclusive negotiations with the ministry of defence for close to three years now for the $ 20-billion Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) tender, may have to abandon the plan over lingering issues.
This is despite the fact that bagging the MMRCA tender, which envisages purchase of 126 aircraft with an option for buying 63 more, is critical for Dassault. Contrary to initial expectations of a quick contract signature, Dassault-MoD negotiations have dragged for over two years.
As reported by FE earlier, cost has been an issue since the start besides the company's reluctance to transfer sophisticated technology to India and meet offsets requirements. In the last few months, questions have been raised by Dassault regarding the role of HAL in the MMRCA.
Moreover, the French company is unwilling to be held liable for the quality, timely and on-cost delivery of the 108 aircraft to be license produced at HAL. This is in breach of tender conditions and has emerged as a major threat to speedy contract conclusion.
Highly placed sources disclosed to FE that after being declared as L1, the French company was very much aware that as per the RFP it had responded to, "state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics was the designated production agency." The French company had offered 22% work share for HAL at the initial stage of negotiations, as its response to the RFP was influenced by a planned partnership with Reliance Industries, that planned to expand into aerospace and defence in 2011.
Talking to FE, Air Marshal (retd) M Matheswaran, senior adviser to HAL's management, said: "Guaranteeing HAL's work is not the issue, but that the French are being "rigid" and refusing to stand behind the integrity of the design."
Matheswaran, who was involved in drafting the original RFP for the deal, added: "Unfortunately, the French don't want to be accountable in any way. However, the original equipment manufacturer has to stand guarantee with respect to design and integrity of design. By constantly denying to take responsibility for production of the 108 aircraft at HAL, the French are trying to get away from the OEM's responsibility." Also, it is about technology transfer, which the French are loath to do.
Source :- Financial Express
Dassault Aviation, maker of Rafale fighter jet which is in exclusive negotiations with the ministry of defence for close to three years now for the $ 20-billion Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) tender, may have to abandon the plan over lingering issues.
This is despite the fact that bagging the MMRCA tender, which envisages purchase of 126 aircraft with an option for buying 63 more, is critical for Dassault. Contrary to initial expectations of a quick contract signature, Dassault-MoD negotiations have dragged for over two years.
As reported by FE earlier, cost has been an issue since the start besides the company's reluctance to transfer sophisticated technology to India and meet offsets requirements. In the last few months, questions have been raised by Dassault regarding the role of HAL in the MMRCA.
Moreover, the French company is unwilling to be held liable for the quality, timely and on-cost delivery of the 108 aircraft to be license produced at HAL. This is in breach of tender conditions and has emerged as a major threat to speedy contract conclusion.
Highly placed sources disclosed to FE that after being declared as L1, the French company was very much aware that as per the RFP it had responded to, "state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics was the designated production agency." The French company had offered 22% work share for HAL at the initial stage of negotiations, as its response to the RFP was influenced by a planned partnership with Reliance Industries, that planned to expand into aerospace and defence in 2011.
Talking to FE, Air Marshal (retd) M Matheswaran, senior adviser to HAL's management, said: "Guaranteeing HAL's work is not the issue, but that the French are being "rigid" and refusing to stand behind the integrity of the design."
Matheswaran, who was involved in drafting the original RFP for the deal, added: "Unfortunately, the French don't want to be accountable in any way. However, the original equipment manufacturer has to stand guarantee with respect to design and integrity of design. By constantly denying to take responsibility for production of the 108 aircraft at HAL, the French are trying to get away from the OEM's responsibility." Also, it is about technology transfer, which the French are loath to do.
Source :- Financial Express
Lions Of Punjab
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Dassault must ensure Rafales made here are of standard: Centre
SOURCE: Business-standard
The Centre on Monday said French firm Dassault must ensure the quality of the Rafale aircraft it delivered to India matched those supplied by it to the French air force.
Speaking on the multi-million dollar Rafale fighter jet contract with Dassault, Rao Inderjit Singh, minister of state for defence, said, "Of the 126 aircraft, 18 are to be delivered by them and the rest are to be manufactured here"¦The aircraft that will be made here have to be with the help of the OEM (original equipment manufacturer), that is, Dassault. Dassault must ensure what is being produced in India is of the same standard and as good as the ones supplied to France."
According to a request for proposal issued in 2007, the first 18 jets are to be imported and 108 manufactured here, under a licence by Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL).
"We do not want IAF (Indian Air Force) pilots flying some defective machines. Our capability in assembling the machines may not be as good as the OEMs. Therefore, one should expect that they, according to the contract, should help out HAL make it as well as the original," Singh said.
He added the three arms of the defence forces had agreed on having a chief of defence staff for the armed forces.
SOURCE: Business-standard
The Centre on Monday said French firm Dassault must ensure the quality of the Rafale aircraft it delivered to India matched those supplied by it to the French air force.
Speaking on the multi-million dollar Rafale fighter jet contract with Dassault, Rao Inderjit Singh, minister of state for defence, said, "Of the 126 aircraft, 18 are to be delivered by them and the rest are to be manufactured here"¦The aircraft that will be made here have to be with the help of the OEM (original equipment manufacturer), that is, Dassault. Dassault must ensure what is being produced in India is of the same standard and as good as the ones supplied to France."
According to a request for proposal issued in 2007, the first 18 jets are to be imported and 108 manufactured here, under a licence by Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL).
"We do not want IAF (Indian Air Force) pilots flying some defective machines. Our capability in assembling the machines may not be as good as the OEMs. Therefore, one should expect that they, according to the contract, should help out HAL make it as well as the original," Singh said.
He added the three arms of the defence forces had agreed on having a chief of defence staff for the armed forces.
Lions Of Punjab
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Russia Angles to Snatch $20Bln Indian Fighter Jet Deal From France
SOURCE : THE MOSCOW TIMES
Russia may be leveraging India's anger at French aerospace firm Dassault to kill a $20 billion aircraft deal, after allegations that the company seriously misled New Delhi on pricing its Rafale fighter jets.
After three years in limbo, Indian newspaper Business Standard reported on Monday that India's defense ministry now considers the contract "essentially dead."
Moscow lost out on the contract in 2012, when India chose Dassault's Rafale fighters over Russia's MiG-35 multi-role aircraft. With tensions between Russia and France high following Paris' decision last year to delay the delivery of two Mistral-class warships over conflict in Ukraine, analysts said that politics may have played a role in the demise of the French aerospace deal.
"Obviously, Russia is working to kill the French contract and they are [attacking] from all directions," Ruslan Pukhov, director of the Moscow-based Center for the Analysis of Strategy and Technology, a defense industry think tank, told The Moscow Times by phone on Monday.
But Petr Topychkanov, a military expert at the Carnegie Moscow Center, said that although Russia may be influencing India's position, "it does not mean that Russia will automatically get the deal," as the U.S. aerospace industry is also aggressively targeting the Indian market.
A Massive Tender
India's air force is aging, but New Delhi's strategic ambitions in Southeast Asia are rising. With its aging fleet of Soviet-era MiG-21 fighter jets fast approaching retirement, India's defense ministry announced a $10 billion tender for 126 foreign fighter jets in 2007.
One of the largest fighter jet tenders in history, India's call drew the attention of some of the world's largest aircraft manufacturers — such as France's Dassault, the U.S. behemoths Boeing and Lockheed Martin, and Russia's RSK MiG.
In 2012, India named Dassault the winner of the tender, which called for the localized production of all but 18 of the 126 aircraft under the arm of India's largest aerospace firm, Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL). Rafales were chosen in part because they were thought to be cheaper to produce and operate than other options.
But Dassault based its bid on incomplete pricing information that did not take into account the cost of outfitting and operating the fighters over their entire operational lifetime.
Over the course of three years of negotiations, the value of the contract has since swollen to $20 billion, and is now threatened by allegations surfacing in the Indian press that Dassault intentionally misled the defense ministry over the price.
Canceling the deal with France would be a reasonable next step, said Topychkanov,
"[Dassault] has not demonstrated any progress, and for India this deal was extremely important for the innovation of their aerospace industry — they cannot wait for years to get new warplanes."
Neither Dassault nor the Indian defense ministry could be reached for contact by The Moscow Times.
Russian Stopgap
Russia's RSK MiG, designer of some of the country's most famous fighter jets, was one of the major aerospace firms to bid for India's $10 billion tender back in 2007.
At the time, it proposed that India purchase its MiG-35 multi-role fighter, an aircraft that was and still is stuck in development. India's military leaders expressed little interest in the deal, though, as their tender required a fighter that had already proven itself and was in serial production.
Still, India's need for capable fighters in the near-term may open a window of opportunity to sell them Russia's long-produced Sukhoi Su-30.
According to Pukhov, "the longer they continue to postpone their decision on [Rafale], the more they need something to bridge the gap. That something is more batches of the Su-30."
India is familiar with the aircraft, having over 200 Su-30s already in service.
New Delhi so far appears to be responding favorably to Russian pressures to buy the Su-30.
In December, Manohar Parrikar, India's defense minister, said that negotiations with Dassault had run into unspecified complications, and that "[Russia's] Sukhoi Su-30MKI is an adequate aircraft for meeting the air force's needs."
Russia's Irkut Corporation, a subsidiary of the United Aircraft Corporation and the manufacturer of Sukhoi's Su-30, announced its intention to present a prospective modernization program for India's Su-30 fleet at the opening of the Aero India 2015 air show on Wednesday, the TASS news agency reported Monday.
Western Competition
A Russia-India joint project to develop a next-generation fighter aircraft, the Sukhoi PAK FA, may complicate Russia's bid.
"The fact is that India is no longer willing to give all of the expensive arms contracts to one single supplier," Topychkanov said.
Because of its engagement on the PAK FA project, India is more likely to favor bids for replacing the Dassault contract from U.S. Aerospace giants Boeing and Lockheed Martin — who offered up their F/A-18 Super Hornet and F-16 Falcon, respectively.
The United States also last year overtook Russia as India's number one arms supplier, and U.S. President Barack Obama and Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi recently negotiated a sweeping military-industrial cooperation agreement that is due to be signed later this year — a development that Carnegie's Topychkanov says heralds even greater arms trade between India and the United States.
Pukhov noted, though, that India may eventually use the fighter jets to counter regional adversary Pakistan — a U.S. ally. If India were to attack Pakistan with U.S. jets, there is the possibility that Washington might refuse to supply spare parts, making the United States unlikely to receive the contract, he said.
SOURCE : THE MOSCOW TIMES
Russia may be leveraging India's anger at French aerospace firm Dassault to kill a $20 billion aircraft deal, after allegations that the company seriously misled New Delhi on pricing its Rafale fighter jets.
After three years in limbo, Indian newspaper Business Standard reported on Monday that India's defense ministry now considers the contract "essentially dead."
Moscow lost out on the contract in 2012, when India chose Dassault's Rafale fighters over Russia's MiG-35 multi-role aircraft. With tensions between Russia and France high following Paris' decision last year to delay the delivery of two Mistral-class warships over conflict in Ukraine, analysts said that politics may have played a role in the demise of the French aerospace deal.
"Obviously, Russia is working to kill the French contract and they are [attacking] from all directions," Ruslan Pukhov, director of the Moscow-based Center for the Analysis of Strategy and Technology, a defense industry think tank, told The Moscow Times by phone on Monday.
But Petr Topychkanov, a military expert at the Carnegie Moscow Center, said that although Russia may be influencing India's position, "it does not mean that Russia will automatically get the deal," as the U.S. aerospace industry is also aggressively targeting the Indian market.
A Massive Tender
India's air force is aging, but New Delhi's strategic ambitions in Southeast Asia are rising. With its aging fleet of Soviet-era MiG-21 fighter jets fast approaching retirement, India's defense ministry announced a $10 billion tender for 126 foreign fighter jets in 2007.
One of the largest fighter jet tenders in history, India's call drew the attention of some of the world's largest aircraft manufacturers — such as France's Dassault, the U.S. behemoths Boeing and Lockheed Martin, and Russia's RSK MiG.
In 2012, India named Dassault the winner of the tender, which called for the localized production of all but 18 of the 126 aircraft under the arm of India's largest aerospace firm, Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL). Rafales were chosen in part because they were thought to be cheaper to produce and operate than other options.
But Dassault based its bid on incomplete pricing information that did not take into account the cost of outfitting and operating the fighters over their entire operational lifetime.
Over the course of three years of negotiations, the value of the contract has since swollen to $20 billion, and is now threatened by allegations surfacing in the Indian press that Dassault intentionally misled the defense ministry over the price.
Canceling the deal with France would be a reasonable next step, said Topychkanov,
"[Dassault] has not demonstrated any progress, and for India this deal was extremely important for the innovation of their aerospace industry — they cannot wait for years to get new warplanes."
Neither Dassault nor the Indian defense ministry could be reached for contact by The Moscow Times.
Russian Stopgap
Russia's RSK MiG, designer of some of the country's most famous fighter jets, was one of the major aerospace firms to bid for India's $10 billion tender back in 2007.
At the time, it proposed that India purchase its MiG-35 multi-role fighter, an aircraft that was and still is stuck in development. India's military leaders expressed little interest in the deal, though, as their tender required a fighter that had already proven itself and was in serial production.
Still, India's need for capable fighters in the near-term may open a window of opportunity to sell them Russia's long-produced Sukhoi Su-30.
According to Pukhov, "the longer they continue to postpone their decision on [Rafale], the more they need something to bridge the gap. That something is more batches of the Su-30."
India is familiar with the aircraft, having over 200 Su-30s already in service.
New Delhi so far appears to be responding favorably to Russian pressures to buy the Su-30.
In December, Manohar Parrikar, India's defense minister, said that negotiations with Dassault had run into unspecified complications, and that "[Russia's] Sukhoi Su-30MKI is an adequate aircraft for meeting the air force's needs."
Russia's Irkut Corporation, a subsidiary of the United Aircraft Corporation and the manufacturer of Sukhoi's Su-30, announced its intention to present a prospective modernization program for India's Su-30 fleet at the opening of the Aero India 2015 air show on Wednesday, the TASS news agency reported Monday.
Western Competition
A Russia-India joint project to develop a next-generation fighter aircraft, the Sukhoi PAK FA, may complicate Russia's bid.
"The fact is that India is no longer willing to give all of the expensive arms contracts to one single supplier," Topychkanov said.
Because of its engagement on the PAK FA project, India is more likely to favor bids for replacing the Dassault contract from U.S. Aerospace giants Boeing and Lockheed Martin — who offered up their F/A-18 Super Hornet and F-16 Falcon, respectively.
The United States also last year overtook Russia as India's number one arms supplier, and U.S. President Barack Obama and Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi recently negotiated a sweeping military-industrial cooperation agreement that is due to be signed later this year — a development that Carnegie's Topychkanov says heralds even greater arms trade between India and the United States.
Pukhov noted, though, that India may eventually use the fighter jets to counter regional adversary Pakistan — a U.S. ally. If India were to attack Pakistan with U.S. jets, there is the possibility that Washington might refuse to supply spare parts, making the United States unlikely to receive the contract, he said.
Punya Pratap
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How Rafale is killing the air force's future
Published February 17, 2015 | By admin
SOURCE: AJAY SHUKLA / Business-standard.com
The priceless Indo-Russian project to co-develop the eponymous Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) is dying of neglect. With the Indian Air Force (IAF) brass focused single-mindedly on procuring 126 Rafale fighters, the air marshals fear that an FGFA on the horizon would undermine their argument that the Rafale is essential. With the costly Rafale procurement imploding in slow motion, the FGFA is becoming collateral damage.
In October 2012, then IAF boss, Air Chief Marshal N A K Browne, announced the IAF would buy only 144 FGFAs instead of the 214 that were originally planned. Having cut down the numbers, the IAF is now undermining the FGFA project itself.
After the apex Indo-Russian Inter-Governmental Commission for Military Technical Cooperation (IRIGC-MTC) met on January 22 to discuss military cooperation, IAF officers whispered to a gullible media that the FGFA was dead. It was reported that Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar had told his Russian counterpart that joint research and development (R&D) was a waste of time. This was factually incorrect. What is true is that the IAF – for reasons that can only be guessed at – is scuttling a project to develop a fighter that would rank alongside the world's best.
Why is the FGFA important, more so than the Rafale? It is a fifth-generation fighter, which makes it operationally more capable than contemporary fourth-generation fighters like the Rafale and the Eurofighter Typhoon. Gen-5 fighters are designed to be stealthy, which means enemy radar cannot detect them until it is too late. They "supercruise", i.e. fly at supersonic speeds without lighting engine afterburners (the Rafale can do this too); and Gen-5 aircraft have futuristic avionics and missiles. In a war with China, stealthy Gen-5 aircraft would be ideal for missions deep into Tibet, evading China's radar network, to destroy the Qinghai-Tibet railway and roads leading to the Indian border – to prevent China from quickly switching troops around on its superior border infrastructure.
So vital was the FGFA considered to India's aerospace capabilities that, in October 2007, New Delhi and Moscow signed an Inter-Governmental Agreement (IGA) to co-develop the fighter, which placed the project above defence ministry procurement rules. The IGA states that Hindustan AeronauticsLtd (HAL) would partner Rosoboronexport, Russia's defence exports agency, in co-developing the fighter. Furthermore, Indian engineers say the expertise gained from the FGFA would be valuable in building the planned indigenous Gen-5 fighter, designated the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA).
Following the IGA, New Delhi and Moscow signed a General Contract in December 2008, stipulating general principles of cooperation such as the share of work and cost, and the sale of the FGFA to third countries. In December 2010, a Preliminary Design Contract was signed in which both sides contributed $295 million towards finalising the fighter's basic configuration, systems and equipment. With that completed in June 2013, the central R&D Contract is now being negotiated. This will govern the bulk of the work – the actual design and development of the FGFA.
Even as the IAF stonewalls the R&D contract negotiations, the need for India to come on board grows ever more pressing. Russia has already designed, built and flown the first prototypes of a Gen-5 fighter they call the PAK-FA (Perspektivny Aviatsionny Kompleks Frontovoy Aviatsii, or "Prospective Airborne Complex of Frontline Aviation"). The PAK-FA, built to Russian Air Force specifications, has already completed 650 test-flights. India's work share will lie in adapting this fighter to the IAF's requirements – which include advanced capabilities like all-round radar that can detect threats in a 360-degree envelope, and voice recognition software that allows the pilot to call out commands. In all, the IAF has specified some 40-45 improvements that they want over the PAK-FA. Indian designers, who will have to integrate these improved capabilities with the existing PAK-FA, are losing out by not participating in the on-going design and test flying in Russia.
The IAF's objections to the FGFA are (a) The Russians are reluctant to share critical design information; (b) The fighter's current AL-41F1 engines are inadequate, being mere upgrades of the Sukhoi-30MKI's AL-31 engines; and (c) It is so expensive that "a large percentage of IAF's capital budget will be locked up." It is ironical that an air force that is eager to spend an estimated $20 billion on the entirely foreign, Gen-4 Rafale is baulking at spending a fraction of that on co-developing and indigenously manufacturing a Gen-5 fighter, which can be maintained and upgraded cheaply for decades to come.
An entire mythology has come up around the cost with even senior air marshals incorrectly stating that India will spend $11 billion on the FGFA. Even this inflated figure would be modest compared to the $40 billion that America spent in the 1980s and 1990s to develop the Gen-5 F-22 Raptor. Yet, in fact, this $11 billion figure was a defence ministry estimation in 2010, which included numerous items that have nothing to do with R&D. Firstly, the amount included both Russian and Indian expenditure; second, it included several options that India may not require, e.g. $1.5 billion for developing a twin-seat FGFA (which the IAF now says it does not want), and $1.5 billion for a new engine. Third, this included the cost of infrastructure that India must establish to manufacture the aircraft in large numbers for the IAF.
Since India urgently needs to start participating in the flight-test programme, of which the PAK-FA has already completed some 20 per cent, Sukhoi would have to build another prototype for India. That cost too is included in the estimation, along with the ground support equipment and training needed for a full-fledged Indian flight-test programme. With all of this factored in, officials closely involved in the negotiations say that India's share in the project could be about $3.5 to 4 billion.
Both sides have already talked around the R&D contract in such detail that it can be concluded in one sitting, provided Indian negotiators are given the green light from a clear-minded political leadership. The FGFA perfectly fits the "Make in India" idea; the strategy of being ready for a two-front conflict; and the IAF force structure of the future. From the standpoint of negotiation strategy, the timing is perfect. The rouble has plummeted more than 60 per cent against the dollar and the rupee in the last five months after the Ukraine crisis. The Russians will agree to the lower dollar rate that New Delhi has been proposing. The time to strike is now.
Published February 17, 2015 | By admin
SOURCE: AJAY SHUKLA / Business-standard.com
The priceless Indo-Russian project to co-develop the eponymous Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) is dying of neglect. With the Indian Air Force (IAF) brass focused single-mindedly on procuring 126 Rafale fighters, the air marshals fear that an FGFA on the horizon would undermine their argument that the Rafale is essential. With the costly Rafale procurement imploding in slow motion, the FGFA is becoming collateral damage.
In October 2012, then IAF boss, Air Chief Marshal N A K Browne, announced the IAF would buy only 144 FGFAs instead of the 214 that were originally planned. Having cut down the numbers, the IAF is now undermining the FGFA project itself.
After the apex Indo-Russian Inter-Governmental Commission for Military Technical Cooperation (IRIGC-MTC) met on January 22 to discuss military cooperation, IAF officers whispered to a gullible media that the FGFA was dead. It was reported that Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar had told his Russian counterpart that joint research and development (R&D) was a waste of time. This was factually incorrect. What is true is that the IAF – for reasons that can only be guessed at – is scuttling a project to develop a fighter that would rank alongside the world's best.
Why is the FGFA important, more so than the Rafale? It is a fifth-generation fighter, which makes it operationally more capable than contemporary fourth-generation fighters like the Rafale and the Eurofighter Typhoon. Gen-5 fighters are designed to be stealthy, which means enemy radar cannot detect them until it is too late. They "supercruise", i.e. fly at supersonic speeds without lighting engine afterburners (the Rafale can do this too); and Gen-5 aircraft have futuristic avionics and missiles. In a war with China, stealthy Gen-5 aircraft would be ideal for missions deep into Tibet, evading China's radar network, to destroy the Qinghai-Tibet railway and roads leading to the Indian border – to prevent China from quickly switching troops around on its superior border infrastructure.
So vital was the FGFA considered to India's aerospace capabilities that, in October 2007, New Delhi and Moscow signed an Inter-Governmental Agreement (IGA) to co-develop the fighter, which placed the project above defence ministry procurement rules. The IGA states that Hindustan AeronauticsLtd (HAL) would partner Rosoboronexport, Russia's defence exports agency, in co-developing the fighter. Furthermore, Indian engineers say the expertise gained from the FGFA would be valuable in building the planned indigenous Gen-5 fighter, designated the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA).
Following the IGA, New Delhi and Moscow signed a General Contract in December 2008, stipulating general principles of cooperation such as the share of work and cost, and the sale of the FGFA to third countries. In December 2010, a Preliminary Design Contract was signed in which both sides contributed $295 million towards finalising the fighter's basic configuration, systems and equipment. With that completed in June 2013, the central R&D Contract is now being negotiated. This will govern the bulk of the work – the actual design and development of the FGFA.
Even as the IAF stonewalls the R&D contract negotiations, the need for India to come on board grows ever more pressing. Russia has already designed, built and flown the first prototypes of a Gen-5 fighter they call the PAK-FA (Perspektivny Aviatsionny Kompleks Frontovoy Aviatsii, or "Prospective Airborne Complex of Frontline Aviation"). The PAK-FA, built to Russian Air Force specifications, has already completed 650 test-flights. India's work share will lie in adapting this fighter to the IAF's requirements – which include advanced capabilities like all-round radar that can detect threats in a 360-degree envelope, and voice recognition software that allows the pilot to call out commands. In all, the IAF has specified some 40-45 improvements that they want over the PAK-FA. Indian designers, who will have to integrate these improved capabilities with the existing PAK-FA, are losing out by not participating in the on-going design and test flying in Russia.
The IAF's objections to the FGFA are (a) The Russians are reluctant to share critical design information; (b) The fighter's current AL-41F1 engines are inadequate, being mere upgrades of the Sukhoi-30MKI's AL-31 engines; and (c) It is so expensive that "a large percentage of IAF's capital budget will be locked up." It is ironical that an air force that is eager to spend an estimated $20 billion on the entirely foreign, Gen-4 Rafale is baulking at spending a fraction of that on co-developing and indigenously manufacturing a Gen-5 fighter, which can be maintained and upgraded cheaply for decades to come.
An entire mythology has come up around the cost with even senior air marshals incorrectly stating that India will spend $11 billion on the FGFA. Even this inflated figure would be modest compared to the $40 billion that America spent in the 1980s and 1990s to develop the Gen-5 F-22 Raptor. Yet, in fact, this $11 billion figure was a defence ministry estimation in 2010, which included numerous items that have nothing to do with R&D. Firstly, the amount included both Russian and Indian expenditure; second, it included several options that India may not require, e.g. $1.5 billion for developing a twin-seat FGFA (which the IAF now says it does not want), and $1.5 billion for a new engine. Third, this included the cost of infrastructure that India must establish to manufacture the aircraft in large numbers for the IAF.
Since India urgently needs to start participating in the flight-test programme, of which the PAK-FA has already completed some 20 per cent, Sukhoi would have to build another prototype for India. That cost too is included in the estimation, along with the ground support equipment and training needed for a full-fledged Indian flight-test programme. With all of this factored in, officials closely involved in the negotiations say that India's share in the project could be about $3.5 to 4 billion.
Both sides have already talked around the R&D contract in such detail that it can be concluded in one sitting, provided Indian negotiators are given the green light from a clear-minded political leadership. The FGFA perfectly fits the "Make in India" idea; the strategy of being ready for a two-front conflict; and the IAF force structure of the future. From the standpoint of negotiation strategy, the timing is perfect. The rouble has plummeted more than 60 per cent against the dollar and the rupee in the last five months after the Ukraine crisis. The Russians will agree to the lower dollar rate that New Delhi has been proposing. The time to strike is now.
Punya Pratap
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Sajeev, please go through the below mentioned post where I have highlighted that Super Su 30 MKI upgrade will have the Zhuk AE AESA Radar which has significant ground mapping, tracking and attacking capabilities thereby making it a Multirole Jet!!
India is planning to upgrade its Su-30MKI fighters with Russian Phazotron Zhuk-AE Active electronically scanned array (AESA) radars. The X band radar can track 30 aerial targets in the track-while-scan mode and engage six targets simultaneously in attack mode. AESA technology offers improved performance and reliability compared with traditional mechanically scanned array radars.[39] Indian Defence Minister A K Antony proposed several upgrades for the Su-30MKI to the Indian Parliament, which included fitting the fighters with Russian Phazotron Zhuk-AE AESA radars starting in 2012.[40]
During MMRCA trials the Zhuk-AE AESA radar demonstrated significant capabilities, including ground-mapping modes and the ability to detect, track and shoot at aerial targets. During demonstration flights, a MiG-35D destroyed an aerial drone with an air-to-air missile launched by an Indian pilot.[41] At the 2011 MAKS air-show, Irkut chairman Alexy Fedorov offered an upgrade package with an improved radar, and reduced radar signature to the Indian fleet to make them "Super Sukhois".[42] India has made a request for information to MBDA about integrating the Brimstone ground attack missile and the long-range Meteor air-to-air missile on their Su-30s.[43]
On 18 August 2010, Defence Minister Shri A K Antony stated the current estimated cost for the upgrade was INR10920 crore (US$2 billion) and the aircraft are likely to be upgraded in phases beginning in 2012.[44]
An upgrade of earliest 80 Su-30MKIs involves equipping them with stand-off missiles with a range of 300 km. A request for information (ROI) has been issued for such a weapon system recently.[45]
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@Punya Pratap
Sir Rather than looking dumb Journalists Reports please watch out what those Marshal's saying about fighters.
The original intentions comes to induct the MRCA is from Kargil where Mirage 2000 evaded those Stinger missiles with the use of Remora EW pod along with good ground striking Missions. leave the Strafing run.
Later they tried to bring more Mirage, and planned to buy these from Qatar. all gone
Rafale comes in new generation bid, his proving Jamming capability along with good striking low upkeep cost, low fly away cost brings us to meet the good Options
please ignore if your mindset loves Russian made Su 30 MKI is MMRCA
@Punya Pratap
Sir Rather than looking dumb Journalists Reports please watch out what those Marshal's saying about fighters.
The original intentions comes to induct the MRCA is from Kargil where Mirage 2000 evaded those Stinger missiles with the use of Remora EW pod along with good ground striking Missions. leave the Strafing run.
Later they tried to bring more Mirage, and planned to buy these from Qatar. all gone
Rafale comes in new generation bid, his proving Jamming capability along with good striking low upkeep cost, low fly away cost brings us to meet the good Options
please ignore if your mindset loves Russian made Su 30 MKI is MMRCA
Last edited by a moderator:
Punya Pratap
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I have even advocated that we take the entire production line of Mig 35 with the Zhuk AE Radar thrown in and as you go through the below article you could say a candidate for filling in place Rafale since the Rafale's have run away with the proposed Egyptian deal its only fair that the Mig 35 replace the Rafale in India 
MiG-35: The plane that won't die | Russia & India Report
MiG-35: The plane that won't die
MiG-35 is a vastly improved aircraft that's 30 per cent larger than MiG-29 and is classified as a 4++ generation jet fighter. Source: RIA Novosti / Anton Denisov
Russia's MiG-35, which stalled in India's multirole fighter aircraft competition in 2010, is likely to be flying in Egyptian airspace. Moscow and Cairo are reported to be circling around a deal worth $3 billion to supply, among other things, 24 advanced MiG-35 jet fighters to the strategically important country.
The MiG-35 sale which was discussed during the visit of a Russian military delegation to Egypt in April is a significant development in relations between Cairo and Moscow. Mikhail Riyabov, a military expert who was part of the Russian military advisory team during the 1973 Arab-Israeli War, told Cairo's Al Ahram Weekly: "These deals will be put into effect in the near future. There is an agreement between Cairo and Moscow.
Because Egypt was governed by an interim government, the agreement was verbal rather than on paper. The Russians were betting on Field Marshal Abdel-Fattah Al-Sisi to win the elections and implement the agreement at the beginning of his term in office. Al-Sisi cruised to power this month. The scope of the deal could widen to include further defence equipment such as air Mi-35 combat helicopters, anti-tank missiles and coastal defence systems.
The Egyptian Air Force, which is mostly dependent on obsolete US-made F-16 jets, is likely to be thrilled to receive the new Russian air superiority fighter. The new MiG, which was first presented at an air show in Bangalore in 2007, is intended as a multi-role aircraft with good capabilities in both air-to-air missions and precision attacks on ground targets in all types of weather. The export version will be equipped with the Zhuk-AE active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar, and is compatible with Russian and Western weapon systems.
While its detractors say the MiG-35 is just a MiG-29 in new garb, in reality the MiG-35 is a vastly improved aircraft that's 30 per cent larger and is classified as a 4++ generation jet fighter.
Not only is it an ace dogfight duke capable of neutralising attack aircraft and cruise missiles, it can destroy sea and surface targets from standoff ranges, and also conduct air reconnaissance missions. It may also have some stealth characteristics because of the use of composites.
Plus, it is no more a stepchild of the Russian military. According to Russian Air Force commander Gen. Alexander Zelin, until the PAK-FA stealth fighter is inducted, the Russian military will use new MiG-35D multirole fighters to take on the latest American stealth aircraft, the F-35. "We have not given up on the MiG-35D light aircraft project, but we will transfer to the (PAK-FA) in the future," Gen. Zelin said.
Russia has signed a $473 million contract for 16 MiG-35 fighters, with deliveries beginning in 2016. According to United Aircraft Corporation, the company expects around 100 MiG-35 fighters will be procured "just in the short term".
Cairo's broke, so who's paying?
Egypt is only a few steps away from financial delinquency. Since the Russians left in the 1970s, the country's defence requirements have been met by the United States. However, in October 2013 the US said it would "recalibrate" defence aid to Egypt and suspend part of it because of a US law prohibiting provision of weapons to regimes that come to power through a military coup.
In this backdrop, Egypt's ability to self-finance these big-ticket purchases is doubtful. While Saudi Arabia and the UAE are reportedly willing to pay for the MiGs, the big question is, will they?
Both the gulf dictatorships are firmly in the American camp but lately have been trying to mend fences with Moscow. The Saudis, who were openly backing Islamic fundamentalists in Syria in a bid to overthrow President Bashar Al-Assad, were frustrated when the United States did an about turn and decided not to attack Syria.
Saudi Arabia is also concerned about American overtures to arch enemy Iran. Strengthening Egypt, which is the only Arab country (now that Iraq is neutralised) that can stand as a bulwark against the feared Persians, is therefore in Riyadh's interests.
However, if petrodollar finance doesn't come through, it doesn't mean Moscow will back out of this strategic low-hanging opportunity. Russian arms export cartel Rosoboronexport has been notching up sales worldwide, riding on easy finance provided by the Russian government. Sergei Tshimisov, a Russian arms official, told the Kuwaiti newspaper Al-Rei that Moscow is prepared to be "very flexible" on payments as it is interested in solidifying its relationship with Cairo.
Missed opportunity?
When the MiG-35 was offered to India, the primary problem with the aircraft was lack of state support for the programme. This had acted as a barrier in securing foreign orders.
Maintenance was the second issue. Time between engine overhauls should be at least 2000 hours and overall life 4000 hours, but the RD-33 didn't meet these parameters, a source told Kommersant.
Both these issues are now sorted and the plane is ready for takeoff. Serbia is another nation that has signed up for the aircraft.
The question is, will India regret not purchasing the MiG-35, which costs just $30-40 million per unit as opposed to the chosen Rafale with a sticker price of more than $100 million – and climbing
*** The last bits were the reason for Mig 35's ejection from the MMRCA deal but since these have been taken care of... I dont see why we cannot have a Govt to Govt deal with the Russians and take the entire production line of Mig 35 from them and build it ourselves and we can call it Mig 35 MKI's retro fitted with India specific components since it already has an open architecture that can include French or Israeli hardware!
### ENGINE OPTIONS : The RD-33MK "Morskaya Osa" (Russian: МорÑÐºÐ°Ñ ÐžÑа, literally: "Sea Wasp" or Chironex fleckeri) was installed by the new modification. It is the latest version of the RD-33 and was intended to power the MiG-29K and MiG-29KUB. It has 7% more power compared to the baseline model due to the use of modern materials in the cooled blades, providing a higher thrust of 9,000 kgf. In response to earlier criticism, the new engines are smokeless and include systems that reduce infrared and optical visibility. The engines may be fitted with vectored-thrust nozzles, which would result an increase in combat efficiency by 12% to 15%.[7][25]
RD-33OVT engine variant comes with thrust vectoring nozzles, and can direct thrust in two directions or planes. As of 2012, the only in-service, in-production fighter jet using this technology is Su-35. Other current thrust-vectoring aircraft, such as the Su-30MKI and the F-22, have nozzles that each vector in one plane.[3]
### OPEN FOR INDIANISATION : The final configuration of the MiG-35's onboard equipment has been left open intentionally using the MIL-STD-1553 bus. The main advantage of an open architecture configuration for its avionics is that future customers will have options to choose from components and systems made by Russian, United States, French and Israeli sources.
### RADAR & SENSORS : New modifications include the newly rolled-out Phazotron Zhuk-AE active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar. The Phazotron Zhuk-AE AESA radar offers a wider range of operating frequencies, providing more resistance to electronic countermeasures (ECM), more detection range, more air and ground targets detected, tracked and able to be engaged simultaneously. The radar is thought to have detection range of 160 km (86 nmi) for air targets and 300 km (160 nmi) for ships.
The most important changes are the Phazotron Zhuk-AE active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar, the RD-33MK engines and the newly designed Optical Locator System, OLS-35.
OLS-Optical Locator System on MIG-35
OLS, as well as radar, allows to detect targets and aim weapon systems. But, unlike the radar, OLS has no emission which means - can't be detected. OLS works like a human eye - it gets picture and analyzes it. Usually it's been said radars are the eyes of the plane. But to be exact, it's more locator device, like whales has. But OLS is really the eyes of the plane and they are very sharp.
OLS works not only in visible bands. Very important part of "plane vision" is IR picture. NII PP engineers has chosen more short-wave bands for the matrix, which has increased sensitivity of the complex in several times and has increased detection range greatly.
MiG-35 OLS may see USAF stealth planes very nicely as well. Today it's impossible to hide the plane from the complex of powerful optics with IR vision.This optical system can distinguish targets and aim weapons as well. Since, it has no emmissions, it is very silent
For more details : MiG-35 / MiG-29M OVT / Fulcrum F
MiG-35: The plane that won't die | Russia & India Report
MiG-35: The plane that won't die
MiG-35 is a vastly improved aircraft that's 30 per cent larger than MiG-29 and is classified as a 4++ generation jet fighter. Source: RIA Novosti / Anton Denisov
Russia's MiG-35, which stalled in India's multirole fighter aircraft competition in 2010, is likely to be flying in Egyptian airspace. Moscow and Cairo are reported to be circling around a deal worth $3 billion to supply, among other things, 24 advanced MiG-35 jet fighters to the strategically important country.
The MiG-35 sale which was discussed during the visit of a Russian military delegation to Egypt in April is a significant development in relations between Cairo and Moscow. Mikhail Riyabov, a military expert who was part of the Russian military advisory team during the 1973 Arab-Israeli War, told Cairo's Al Ahram Weekly: "These deals will be put into effect in the near future. There is an agreement between Cairo and Moscow.
Because Egypt was governed by an interim government, the agreement was verbal rather than on paper. The Russians were betting on Field Marshal Abdel-Fattah Al-Sisi to win the elections and implement the agreement at the beginning of his term in office. Al-Sisi cruised to power this month. The scope of the deal could widen to include further defence equipment such as air Mi-35 combat helicopters, anti-tank missiles and coastal defence systems.
The Egyptian Air Force, which is mostly dependent on obsolete US-made F-16 jets, is likely to be thrilled to receive the new Russian air superiority fighter. The new MiG, which was first presented at an air show in Bangalore in 2007, is intended as a multi-role aircraft with good capabilities in both air-to-air missions and precision attacks on ground targets in all types of weather. The export version will be equipped with the Zhuk-AE active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar, and is compatible with Russian and Western weapon systems.
While its detractors say the MiG-35 is just a MiG-29 in new garb, in reality the MiG-35 is a vastly improved aircraft that's 30 per cent larger and is classified as a 4++ generation jet fighter.
Not only is it an ace dogfight duke capable of neutralising attack aircraft and cruise missiles, it can destroy sea and surface targets from standoff ranges, and also conduct air reconnaissance missions. It may also have some stealth characteristics because of the use of composites.
Plus, it is no more a stepchild of the Russian military. According to Russian Air Force commander Gen. Alexander Zelin, until the PAK-FA stealth fighter is inducted, the Russian military will use new MiG-35D multirole fighters to take on the latest American stealth aircraft, the F-35. "We have not given up on the MiG-35D light aircraft project, but we will transfer to the (PAK-FA) in the future," Gen. Zelin said.
Russia has signed a $473 million contract for 16 MiG-35 fighters, with deliveries beginning in 2016. According to United Aircraft Corporation, the company expects around 100 MiG-35 fighters will be procured "just in the short term".
Cairo's broke, so who's paying?
Egypt is only a few steps away from financial delinquency. Since the Russians left in the 1970s, the country's defence requirements have been met by the United States. However, in October 2013 the US said it would "recalibrate" defence aid to Egypt and suspend part of it because of a US law prohibiting provision of weapons to regimes that come to power through a military coup.
In this backdrop, Egypt's ability to self-finance these big-ticket purchases is doubtful. While Saudi Arabia and the UAE are reportedly willing to pay for the MiGs, the big question is, will they?
Both the gulf dictatorships are firmly in the American camp but lately have been trying to mend fences with Moscow. The Saudis, who were openly backing Islamic fundamentalists in Syria in a bid to overthrow President Bashar Al-Assad, were frustrated when the United States did an about turn and decided not to attack Syria.
Saudi Arabia is also concerned about American overtures to arch enemy Iran. Strengthening Egypt, which is the only Arab country (now that Iraq is neutralised) that can stand as a bulwark against the feared Persians, is therefore in Riyadh's interests.
However, if petrodollar finance doesn't come through, it doesn't mean Moscow will back out of this strategic low-hanging opportunity. Russian arms export cartel Rosoboronexport has been notching up sales worldwide, riding on easy finance provided by the Russian government. Sergei Tshimisov, a Russian arms official, told the Kuwaiti newspaper Al-Rei that Moscow is prepared to be "very flexible" on payments as it is interested in solidifying its relationship with Cairo.
Missed opportunity?
When the MiG-35 was offered to India, the primary problem with the aircraft was lack of state support for the programme. This had acted as a barrier in securing foreign orders.
Maintenance was the second issue. Time between engine overhauls should be at least 2000 hours and overall life 4000 hours, but the RD-33 didn't meet these parameters, a source told Kommersant.
Both these issues are now sorted and the plane is ready for takeoff. Serbia is another nation that has signed up for the aircraft.
The question is, will India regret not purchasing the MiG-35, which costs just $30-40 million per unit as opposed to the chosen Rafale with a sticker price of more than $100 million – and climbing
*** The last bits were the reason for Mig 35's ejection from the MMRCA deal but since these have been taken care of... I dont see why we cannot have a Govt to Govt deal with the Russians and take the entire production line of Mig 35 from them and build it ourselves and we can call it Mig 35 MKI's retro fitted with India specific components since it already has an open architecture that can include French or Israeli hardware!
### ENGINE OPTIONS : The RD-33MK "Morskaya Osa" (Russian: МорÑÐºÐ°Ñ ÐžÑа, literally: "Sea Wasp" or Chironex fleckeri) was installed by the new modification. It is the latest version of the RD-33 and was intended to power the MiG-29K and MiG-29KUB. It has 7% more power compared to the baseline model due to the use of modern materials in the cooled blades, providing a higher thrust of 9,000 kgf. In response to earlier criticism, the new engines are smokeless and include systems that reduce infrared and optical visibility. The engines may be fitted with vectored-thrust nozzles, which would result an increase in combat efficiency by 12% to 15%.[7][25]
RD-33OVT engine variant comes with thrust vectoring nozzles, and can direct thrust in two directions or planes. As of 2012, the only in-service, in-production fighter jet using this technology is Su-35. Other current thrust-vectoring aircraft, such as the Su-30MKI and the F-22, have nozzles that each vector in one plane.[3]
### OPEN FOR INDIANISATION : The final configuration of the MiG-35's onboard equipment has been left open intentionally using the MIL-STD-1553 bus. The main advantage of an open architecture configuration for its avionics is that future customers will have options to choose from components and systems made by Russian, United States, French and Israeli sources.
### RADAR & SENSORS : New modifications include the newly rolled-out Phazotron Zhuk-AE active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar. The Phazotron Zhuk-AE AESA radar offers a wider range of operating frequencies, providing more resistance to electronic countermeasures (ECM), more detection range, more air and ground targets detected, tracked and able to be engaged simultaneously. The radar is thought to have detection range of 160 km (86 nmi) for air targets and 300 km (160 nmi) for ships.
The most important changes are the Phazotron Zhuk-AE active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar, the RD-33MK engines and the newly designed Optical Locator System, OLS-35.
OLS-Optical Locator System on MIG-35
OLS, as well as radar, allows to detect targets and aim weapon systems. But, unlike the radar, OLS has no emission which means - can't be detected. OLS works like a human eye - it gets picture and analyzes it. Usually it's been said radars are the eyes of the plane. But to be exact, it's more locator device, like whales has. But OLS is really the eyes of the plane and they are very sharp.
OLS works not only in visible bands. Very important part of "plane vision" is IR picture. NII PP engineers has chosen more short-wave bands for the matrix, which has increased sensitivity of the complex in several times and has increased detection range greatly.
MiG-35 OLS may see USAF stealth planes very nicely as well. Today it's impossible to hide the plane from the complex of powerful optics with IR vision.This optical system can distinguish targets and aim weapons as well. Since, it has no emmissions, it is very silent
For more details : MiG-35 / MiG-29M OVT / Fulcrum F
Last edited:
Punya Pratap
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Dear Sajeev,
Sir your knowledge is vastly superior to mine so dont get offended !!
I know the entire saga of MMRCA and I have had lengthy discussions (Heated debates) with a lot of posters here about the merits of Rafale!!
I do not object to a strike airplane that can effectively pound enemy ground positions and replaces the Jags and Mig 27's but I do object to an obscene amount of money being demanded for it!
I even have proposed the Mig 35 as an option or am willing to propose anything that has a decent strike capability!
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Punya Pratap
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@ Sajeev below article from Moscow Times.... as a saying goes in our part of the country when two cats fight the monkey runs away with the bread
Russia Angles to Snatch $20Bln Indian Fighter Jet Deal From France
Published February 17, 2015 | By admin
SOURCE : THE MOSCOW TIMES
Russia may be leveraging India's anger at French aerospace firm Dassault to kill a $20 billion aircraft deal, after allegations that the company seriously misled New Delhi on pricing its Rafale fighter jets.
After three years in limbo, Indian newspaper Business Standard reported on Monday that India's defense ministry now considers the contract "essentially dead."
Moscow lost out on the contract in 2012, when India chose Dassault's Rafale fighters over Russia's MiG-35 multi-role aircraft. With tensions between Russia and France high following Paris' decision last year to delay the delivery of two Mistral-class warships over conflict in Ukraine, analysts said that politics may have played a role in the demise of the French aerospace deal.
"Obviously, Russia is working to kill the French contract and they are [attacking] from all directions," Ruslan Pukhov, director of the Moscow-based Center for the Analysis of Strategy and Technology, a defense industry think tank, told The Moscow Times by phone on Monday.
But Petr Topychkanov, a military expert at the Carnegie Moscow Center, said that although Russia may be influencing India's position, "it does not mean that Russia will automatically get the deal," as the U.S. aerospace industry is also aggressively targeting the Indian market.
A Massive Tender
India's air force is aging, but New Delhi's strategic ambitions in Southeast Asia are rising. With its aging fleet of Soviet-era MiG-21 fighter jets fast approaching retirement, India's defense ministry announced a $10 billion tender for 126 foreign fighter jets in 2007.
One of the largest fighter jet tenders in history, India's call drew the attention of some of the world's largest aircraft manufacturers — such as France's Dassault, the U.S. behemoths Boeing and Lockheed Martin, and Russia's RSK MiG.
In 2012, India named Dassault the winner of the tender, which called for the localized production of all but 18 of the 126 aircraft under the arm of India's largest aerospace firm, Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL). Rafales were chosen in part because they were thought to be cheaper to produce and operate than other options.
But Dassault based its bid on incomplete pricing information that did not take into account the cost of outfitting and operating the fighters over their entire operational lifetime.
Over the course of three years of negotiations, the value of the contract has since swollen to $20 billion, and is now threatened by allegations surfacing in the Indian press that Dassault intentionally misled the defense ministry over the price.
Canceling the deal with France would be a reasonable next step, said Topychkanov,
"[Dassault] has not demonstrated any progress, and for India this deal was extremely important for the innovation of their aerospace industry — they cannot wait for years to get new warplanes."
Neither Dassault nor the Indian defense ministry could be reached for contact by The Moscow Times.
Russian Stopgap
Russia's RSK MiG, designer of some of the country's most famous fighter jets, was one of the major aerospace firms to bid for India's $10 billion tender back in 2007.
At the time, it proposed that India purchase its MiG-35 multi-role fighter, an aircraft that was and still is stuck in development. India's military leaders expressed little interest in the deal, though, as their tender required a fighter that had already proven itself and was in serial production.
Still, India's need for capable fighters in the near-term may open a window of opportunity to sell them Russia's long-produced Sukhoi Su-30.
According to Pukhov, "the longer they continue to postpone their decision on [Rafale], the more they need something to bridge the gap. That something is more batches of the Su-30."
India is familiar with the aircraft, having over 200 Su-30s already in service.
New Delhi so far appears to be responding favorably to Russian pressures to buy the Su-30.
In December, Manohar Parrikar, India's defense minister, said that negotiations with Dassault had run into unspecified complications, and that "[Russia's] Sukhoi Su-30MKI is an adequate aircraft for meeting the air force's needs."
Russia's Irkut Corporation, a subsidiary of the United Aircraft Corporation and the manufacturer of Sukhoi's Su-30, announced its intention to present a prospective modernization program for India's Su-30 fleet at the opening of the Aero India 2015 air show on Wednesday, the TASS news agency reported Monday.
Western Competition
A Russia-India joint project to develop a next-generation fighter aircraft, the Sukhoi PAK FA, may complicate Russia's bid.
"The fact is that India is no longer willing to give all of the expensive arms contracts to one single supplier," Topychkanov said.
Because of its engagement on the PAK FA project, India is more likely to favor bids for replacing the Dassault contract from U.S. Aerospace giants Boeing and Lockheed Martin — who offered up their F/A-18 Super Hornet and F-16 Falcon, respectively.
The United States also last year overtook Russia as India's number one arms supplier, and U.S. President Barack Obama and Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi recently negotiated a sweeping military-industrial cooperation agreement that is due to be signed later this year — a development that Carnegie's Topychkanov says heralds even greater arms trade between India and the United States.
Pukhov noted, though, that India may eventually use the fighter jets to counter regional adversary Pakistan — a U.S. ally. If India were to attack Pakistan with U.S. jets, there is the possibility that Washington might refuse to supply spare parts, making the United States unlikely to receive the contract, he said
Russia Angles to Snatch $20Bln Indian Fighter Jet Deal From France
Published February 17, 2015 | By admin
SOURCE : THE MOSCOW TIMES
Russia may be leveraging India's anger at French aerospace firm Dassault to kill a $20 billion aircraft deal, after allegations that the company seriously misled New Delhi on pricing its Rafale fighter jets.
After three years in limbo, Indian newspaper Business Standard reported on Monday that India's defense ministry now considers the contract "essentially dead."
Moscow lost out on the contract in 2012, when India chose Dassault's Rafale fighters over Russia's MiG-35 multi-role aircraft. With tensions between Russia and France high following Paris' decision last year to delay the delivery of two Mistral-class warships over conflict in Ukraine, analysts said that politics may have played a role in the demise of the French aerospace deal.
"Obviously, Russia is working to kill the French contract and they are [attacking] from all directions," Ruslan Pukhov, director of the Moscow-based Center for the Analysis of Strategy and Technology, a defense industry think tank, told The Moscow Times by phone on Monday.
But Petr Topychkanov, a military expert at the Carnegie Moscow Center, said that although Russia may be influencing India's position, "it does not mean that Russia will automatically get the deal," as the U.S. aerospace industry is also aggressively targeting the Indian market.
A Massive Tender
India's air force is aging, but New Delhi's strategic ambitions in Southeast Asia are rising. With its aging fleet of Soviet-era MiG-21 fighter jets fast approaching retirement, India's defense ministry announced a $10 billion tender for 126 foreign fighter jets in 2007.
One of the largest fighter jet tenders in history, India's call drew the attention of some of the world's largest aircraft manufacturers — such as France's Dassault, the U.S. behemoths Boeing and Lockheed Martin, and Russia's RSK MiG.
In 2012, India named Dassault the winner of the tender, which called for the localized production of all but 18 of the 126 aircraft under the arm of India's largest aerospace firm, Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL). Rafales were chosen in part because they were thought to be cheaper to produce and operate than other options.
But Dassault based its bid on incomplete pricing information that did not take into account the cost of outfitting and operating the fighters over their entire operational lifetime.
Over the course of three years of negotiations, the value of the contract has since swollen to $20 billion, and is now threatened by allegations surfacing in the Indian press that Dassault intentionally misled the defense ministry over the price.
Canceling the deal with France would be a reasonable next step, said Topychkanov,
"[Dassault] has not demonstrated any progress, and for India this deal was extremely important for the innovation of their aerospace industry — they cannot wait for years to get new warplanes."
Neither Dassault nor the Indian defense ministry could be reached for contact by The Moscow Times.
Russian Stopgap
Russia's RSK MiG, designer of some of the country's most famous fighter jets, was one of the major aerospace firms to bid for India's $10 billion tender back in 2007.
At the time, it proposed that India purchase its MiG-35 multi-role fighter, an aircraft that was and still is stuck in development. India's military leaders expressed little interest in the deal, though, as their tender required a fighter that had already proven itself and was in serial production.
Still, India's need for capable fighters in the near-term may open a window of opportunity to sell them Russia's long-produced Sukhoi Su-30.
According to Pukhov, "the longer they continue to postpone their decision on [Rafale], the more they need something to bridge the gap. That something is more batches of the Su-30."
India is familiar with the aircraft, having over 200 Su-30s already in service.
New Delhi so far appears to be responding favorably to Russian pressures to buy the Su-30.
In December, Manohar Parrikar, India's defense minister, said that negotiations with Dassault had run into unspecified complications, and that "[Russia's] Sukhoi Su-30MKI is an adequate aircraft for meeting the air force's needs."
Russia's Irkut Corporation, a subsidiary of the United Aircraft Corporation and the manufacturer of Sukhoi's Su-30, announced its intention to present a prospective modernization program for India's Su-30 fleet at the opening of the Aero India 2015 air show on Wednesday, the TASS news agency reported Monday.
Western Competition
A Russia-India joint project to develop a next-generation fighter aircraft, the Sukhoi PAK FA, may complicate Russia's bid.
"The fact is that India is no longer willing to give all of the expensive arms contracts to one single supplier," Topychkanov said.
Because of its engagement on the PAK FA project, India is more likely to favor bids for replacing the Dassault contract from U.S. Aerospace giants Boeing and Lockheed Martin — who offered up their F/A-18 Super Hornet and F-16 Falcon, respectively.
The United States also last year overtook Russia as India's number one arms supplier, and U.S. President Barack Obama and Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi recently negotiated a sweeping military-industrial cooperation agreement that is due to be signed later this year — a development that Carnegie's Topychkanov says heralds even greater arms trade between India and the United States.
Pukhov noted, though, that India may eventually use the fighter jets to counter regional adversary Pakistan — a U.S. ally. If India were to attack Pakistan with U.S. jets, there is the possibility that Washington might refuse to supply spare parts, making the United States unlikely to receive the contract, he said
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thanks for replying also apologies if it is a little long response. putting down my thoughts only ...
i find that a little hard to believe. i found that the contract was designed for either the french if not the Americans to win. this was designed to get us something comparable to the mirages that we have good experience and use from. what we are getting is better. and because we are doing better compared to mirage is a good thing. it was a little eye wash to see how significant it was to get the americans to bid with their stuff (it was departure from before) yet they lost.
if it was under pressure from gandhi family they went against usa and russia and even uk, german and eu and swedish interests. it even cost the job of the us ambassador. does the americans complain against gandhi family it curtailed a lot of developments - probably not paid enough some might say. i also feel the too much respect is given and not given to certain people. if i wanted to get [X] and you took money from [X] does it mean i choose [X] because of you. i wanted [X]. you taking money would have not made a difference but you did. you would have taken money from all and might have taken from all. the mirage that it is because of you i choose [X] is coincidental. some might say in fact you taking money is acceptable and the norm and might be a known consequence. for example a simple question - who insert contract clauses that are in favor of transfer of technology in rfp. what about the testing parameters. were we testing to see how far the americans would go. were we getting free information for our local development and data to use and share with our partners. - now that would be a reason to dump the contract. but why not take the deal also.
i believe this is all part of negotiations. it is a tactic. both sides are doing it to get the best deal. some might say it is hearsay since the french people involved might have political futures later. the final deal we get with the french will not only be about finances but about a long-term relationship. if we dont do the deal it will not be because of money. it will be because of the relationship of india and france. i feel geo-politically it was a wonderful choice. in game theory it probably is a choice if played out would be repeated. the french will be getting a good partner. and india will be getting a good partner. the mirage and dassualt has history with india. french industry and people will benefit. india will get make in india offsets. that is what we learn more and more now that it is important to have good (and a few) close partners. the french will be expanding their influence and india will getting into many more parameters. if it does not work out it would come at a cost.
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