Know Your 'Rafale'

[p2prada]

Kindly do explain how ???
I mean can't chinese buy a superior stuff if they want to ??
They have more money too !

Let's be realistic here. Russia is ahead of China in terms of technology and Rafale is much more mature than current Russian technology. Of course we cannot predict how long the Chinese may take to catch up, but this deal is a major obstacle for China to deal with.

Rafale will simply be the best strike fighter out in the Himalayas. The Chinese air force's biggest obstacle will be IAF's DPSA capabilities and this has been bolstered by a very large extent.

The Chinese will not buy any foreign aircraft even if they want to simply because their current projects will take away most of their resources. That is if they are allowed to buy in the first place. Currently both US and Europe have military sanctions on China. Russia may offer the Su-35, but China won't buy another Flanker.

 

[p2prada]

There is another very important point that cannot be overlooked. Rafale provides guaranteed Nuclear strike capability. This cannot be guaranteed with EF. Mirage-2000 was our primary Nuke strike aircraft and will soon be replaced by Rafale.

Perhaps SFC can get a cheaper offer for their requirement for 40 Rafale's.

IN may also benefit from IAF's deal for a cheaper MRCA deal estimated to be 72 aircraft + options. Who knows? India may become the largest operator of the Rafale in the world.

 

[trackwhack]

There is another very important point that cannot be overlooked. Rafale provides guaranteed Nuclear strike capability. This cannot be guaranteed with EF. Mirage-2000 was our primary Nuke strike aircraft and will soon be replaced by Rafale.

Perhaps SFC can get a cheaper offer for their requirement for 40 Rafale's.

IN may also benefit from IAF's deal for a cheaper MRCA deal estimated to be 72 aircraft + options. Who knows? India may become the largest operator of Rafale's in the world.

No we must listen to JayATL on this and buy the F 35 with an awesome combat range of 600 miles to douse fires over Lhasa

 

[Nagraj]

Correct me if i am wrong the thing is china is advancng it's indigeous quality at a rapid rate. i dunno about the current status but wining one to two decade it should be able to match technologies which are being offred by europian nations.
Moreover china is not the type to sit and watch . If they want to get their hands on advanced technology i doubt it will stay outta their hands for too long.
i do agree that MMRCA give IAF some advantage .
How ever i am anot sure about how much advange it gives and for how long that advantage will last ??

They are still under arms embargo. They will keep introduce J-10B and probably J-20 some time in future. They wont buy fighters from Russia any time soon, I think. ANy way it is about systems , not just aircrafts.

 

[ice berg]

Let's be realistic here. Russia is ahead of China in terms of technology and Rafale is much more mature than current Russian technology. Of course we cannot predict how long the Chinese may take to catch up, but this deal is a major obstacle for China to deal with.

Rafale will simply be the best strike fighter out in the Himalayas. The Chinese air force's biggest obstacle will be IAF's DPSA capabilities and this has been bolstered by a very large extent.

The Chinese will not buy any foreign aircraft even if they want to simply because their current projects will take away most of their resources. That is if they are allowed to buy in the first place. Currently both US and Europe have military sanctions on China. Russia may offer the Su-35, but China won't buy another Flanker.

I agree with most of your points, however it will take India at least a decade to introduce all 200 of them. Not to mention that not all of them will be stationed in the Himalayas. You cant compare without knowing what the chinese side will look alike a decade or more from now.

 

[p2prada]

BBC News - India picks French jet over Eurofighter in $10bn deal

Hehe. Had pointed out IAF's favour for Rafale.

One Indian defence ministry source confirmed to Reuters that the Rafale had been "much cheaper unit-wise", adding: "Moreover, the Indian air force, which is well-equipped with French fighters, is favouring the French."

 

[ace009]

Let's be realistic here. Russia is ahead of China in terms of technology and Rafale is much more mature than current Russian technology. Of course we cannot predict how long the Chinese may take to catch up, but this deal is a major obstacle for China to deal with.

Rafale will simply be the best strike fighter out in the Himalayas. The Chinese air force's biggest obstacle will be IAF's DPSA capabilities and this has been bolstered by a very large extent.

The Chinese will not buy any foreign aircraft even if they want to simply because their current projects will take away most of their resources. That is if they are allowed to buy in the first place. Currently both US and Europe have military sanctions on China. Russia may offer the Su-35, but China won't buy another Flanker.

Russia my (AFIAK were ready to) offer PAK-FA to the Chinese, but having declined it once (for their J-20), the Chinese may find themselves in trouble later on.
However, I doubt that the PLAAF need to worry about the Rafale much over the Himalayas, unless they are attacking across the mountains into India - since it does not have the range (~1800 km of combat radius) with conventional payloads to threaten much of PLAAF airfields. The rafale will be a major deterrent for the PAF for sure and when/ if the SFC get their version of the Rafale (with longer range and nuclear payloads) or the IN gets mRafale that can reach the South China sea - then the PLAAF can be concerned.

@ Kunal - the problem with large cannon rounds also is that it is much more difficult to hit the enemies wings and easier to hit the aircraft body since the cannon is mounted along the centerline or at wingroots - AFAIK.

 

[Bhon]

Our defense rests in the hands of the lowest bidder....now that should help me sleep well !!

 

[Nagraj]

Lol .....

Our defense rests in the hands of the lowest bidder....now that should help me sleep well !!

 

[p2prada]

Can anybody tel me ,Y french moved out of EF and made this beauty of their own..

The French asked for too much and were actually kicked out. They wanted to use a lot of their own technology along with use of the M88 engine. They wanted all the critical positions as well along with the top spot that was reserved for Germany.

 

[Param]

Correct me if i am wrong the thing is china is advancng it's indigeous quality at a rapid rate. i dunno about the current status but wining one to two decade it should be able to match technologies which are being offred by europian nations.
Moreover china is not the type to sit and watch . If they want to get their hands on advanced technology i doubt it will stay outta their hands for too long.
i do agree that MMRCA give IAF some advantage .
How ever i am anot sure about how much advange it gives and for how long that advantage will last ??

With European economies in trouble, i think China would do as much as they can to get hold of some technologies maybe from EF consortium countries.
They won't buy fighters and Europe will not offer any in the first place.

 

[ice berg]

Correct me if i am wrong the thing is china is advancng it's indigeous quality at a rapid rate. i dunno about the current status but wining one to two decade it should be able to match technologies which are being offred by europian nations.
Moreover china is not the type to sit and watch . If they want to get their hands on advanced technology i doubt it will stay outta their hands for too long.
i do agree that MMRCA give IAF some advantage .
How ever i am anot sure about how much advange it gives and for how long that advantage will last ??

China is still playing the catch up game and will be so for years to come. However since they dont need to rely on foreign countries, they can introduce fighters like J-10B at far greater numbers. The technological advantages will be somewhat offset by their numerical advantage. And I will like to repeat what I said earlier. In modern air to air engagement, the battle management is far more important. It is not as simple as A vs B.

 

[nrj]

Our defense rests in the hands of the lowest bidder....now that should help me sleep well !!

You do know that lowest bidder is picked after shortlisting the finest aircraft based on stringent evaluation process involving 650+ technical parameters, right ?

 

[ace009]

No we must listen to JayATL on this and buy the F 35 with an awesome combat range of 600 miles to douse fires over Lhasa

You mean combat RADIUS of 600 nmi (1 nmi = 1.85 km)? that's about 650 mi or about 1090 kms? That means combat RANGE of ~2200 kms (range = 2X radius).

 

[Bhon]

There is another very important point that cannot be overlooked. Rafale provides guaranteed Nuclear strike capability. This cannot be guaranteed with EF. Mirage-2000 was our primary Nuke strike aircraft and will soon be replaced by Rafale.

Perhaps SFC can get a cheaper offer for their requirement for 40 Rafale's.

IN may also benefit from IAF's deal for a cheaper MRCA deal estimated to be 72 aircraft + options. Who knows? India may become the largest operator of the Rafale in the world.

We have the Su-30MKI for nuclear strike capability as it can carry Brahmos cruise missiles.

 

[p2prada]

Russia my (AFIAK were ready to) offer PAK-FA to the Chinese, but having declined it once (for their J-20), the Chinese may find themselves in trouble later on.
However, I doubt that the PLAAF need to worry about the Rafale much over the Himalayas, unless they are attacking across the mountains into India - since it does not have the range (~1800 km of combat radius) with conventional payloads to threaten much of PLAAF airfields. The rafale will be a major deterrent for the PAF for sure and when/ if the SFC get their version of the Rafale (with longer range and nuclear payloads) or the IN gets mRafale that can reach the South China sea - then the PLAAF can be concerned.

1800Km is an insane range and Rafale can do 800-1000Km on internal fuel. If you want more info then F-35 has a combat radius of 900Km and F-22 has a combat radius of 600Km, without external fuel supplies.

Comparatively the MKI does 1300-1500Km on internals while the Su-35 will do 2600Km with drop tanks. All hi-hi-hi config I guess, at cruise speeds and air to air payloads. The F-15E with CFT and drop tanks will match the Su-35.

 

[trackwhack]

You mean combat RADIUS of 600 nmi (1 nmi = 1.85 km)? that's about 650 mi or about 1090 kms? That means combat RANGE of ~2200 kms (range = 2X radius).

Ok Einstein, so the F 35 is a Kamikaze bomber? The max range on internal fuel is 1100 - 1200 nm. Your solution is to send our pilots on a one way bombing mission to hell?

And please dont give me the logic of drop tanks. If its gonna be used as a bomber we need the payload for bombs, not fuel

 

[SpArK]

China is still playing the catch up game and will be so for years to come. However since they dont need to rely on foreign countries, they can introduce fighters like J-10B at far greater numbers. The technological advantages will be somewhat offset by their numerical advantage. And I will like to repeat what I said earlier. In modern air to air engagement, the battle management is far more important. It is not as simple as A vs B.

Yup. with the rate of air exercises and contacts we are having with western air-forces, we can assume who scores better in that.


Ive been hearing pakistanis crying . their pilots are god send...well these fanboys resort to whatever refuge they can get when faced with realities.

 

[p2prada]

I agree with most of your points, however it will take India at least a decade to introduce all 200 of them. Not to mention that not all of them will be stationed in the Himalayas. You cant compare without knowing what the chinese side will look alike a decade or more from now.

No country can be underestimated. You have a lot more countries to counter as well. Japan and USN in the East. India in the South and who knows maybe Russia from the North. So, you have a lot more to defend against. The Himalayas will no longer protect China as effectively as it once had.

As for how quickly China may progress by 2020 is impossible to say without more transparency. But rest assured we will be nearly at par if numbers come into play.

It should take any time between 10 and 15 years to induct the 200 Rafales and along with that PAKFA will happen side by side. Once Rafale is done, AMCA will take over. In parallel we will have a modest UCAV program going on, with supposed induction of the first version expected in 2018.

 

[Armand2REP]

China is still playing the catch up game and will be so for years to come. However since they dont need to rely on foreign countries, they can introduce fighters like J-10B at far greater numbers. The technological advantages will be somewhat offset by their numerical advantage. And I will like to repeat what I said earlier. In modern air to air engagement, the battle management is far more important. It is not as simple as A vs B.

It takes 3 J-10s to equal 1 Rafale F4, PLAAF has a couple hundred and who knows how many they will build. It will take 600 to offset the advantage of Rafale.