Know Your 'Rafale'

[Pulkit]

I was expecting something close to 2020 not beyond that,,,and if we will see it in next two years then also in 4-5 years It will enter production........
If it is going to be 2025 then what about AMCA.... Today only was reading somewhere here a man praising Pakis for being quick in inducting and doing formalities later ab to mujhe usse agreement ho raha hai.... Unho ne ek untested crude below power A/C ko apna liya(I know they dint have any option and they had chinese help),,, par kam se kam induct to kiya without ioc and bhagwaan jaane FOC kab hoga uska....

most probably in 2022-2025. First prototype will come to india in next two years.

 

[DivineHeretic]

With due respect to everyone, the longer this goes on, the more difficult it gets to justify the costs (and the inevitable cost escalations) and by extension, the induction of the plane itself.

I used to be a determined supporter of the MMRCA, I still am. But justifying my support for this deal to my rational self is becoming increasingly difficult.

And about the light and heavy category being talked about, this traditionally meant that the lighter (or medium) category of fighters were expected to be the workhorse of the fleet, with low flying and maintenance costs and higher availability, not to mention cheaper than the heavy fighters.

Here we find the supposed MMRCA costing more than the heavy MKI, having comparable flying costs. I'm not sure anymore what the different weights denote

 

[arnabmit]

Hi all
does anybody know the exact value of this deal...
Some sources say 20b and other say 10 b some 15 b what is the exact cost?

$20bn is the lifetime/lifecycle cost. Not procurement cost.

 

[Pulkit]

$20bn is the lifetime/lifecycle cost. Not procurement cost.

Yeah thanks I got the answer to that question ...
actually it will more than 20billion not less.... and might increase aswell.... as the cost of setting a facility in India has to be modified/added/updated... one of them,,,, so its goona rise...

 

[vishal_lionheart]

I found interesting information on bharat - rakshak. which was given by Viv S.
Rafale Doesn't have the stealth to penetrate too deep behind enemy lines. EW system is high end but mostly defensive. Radar performance is good but far from exceptional, limited as it is by its aperture size. Good endurance (with external tanks), but then our adversaries are right on the doorstep and we have plenty of forward air bases.
We want GREAT Fighter and not good fighter.
As far as Pakstan, The IAF can handle the Paks without any Rafales. The current fleet with upgrades and a full quota of Sukhois is quite sufficient. Our problem is China. We're have been outnumbered for a while and that disparity is only accelerating.
Can you imagine the result if we invested $10 billion directly into the industry, instead of having Dassault dole it out piecemeal to Reliance & Co.?

 

[vishal_lionheart]

Hii Guys,

Is it possible for Modiji and French government to open again Mirage 2000 production line in India? Nothing is impossible.

 

[Pulkit]

What be its benefit????

Hii Guys,

Is it possible for Modiji and French government to open again Mirage 2000 production line in India? Nothing is impossible.

 

[vishal_lionheart]

It's capable to handle Chi-pak fighters with upgraded version ( advabced blocks) and cost effective as compare to rafale.

 

[Pulkit]

I get your point but in todays world you want to acquire a technology which can survive a decade or two with out getting obsolete at that age you can plan to have a technology more than a decade old.... its a great aircraft but buying today will make then vulnarable in a coming few years even before completing half of there service life....

It's capable to handle Chi-pak fighters with upgraded version ( advabced blocks) and cost effective as compare to rafale.

 

[abhi_the _gr8_maratha]

I was expecting something close to 2020 not beyond that,,,and if we will see it in next two years then also in 4-5 years It will enter production........
If it is going to be 2025 then what about AMCA.... Today only was reading somewhere here a man praising Pakis for being quick in inducting and doing formalities later ab to mujhe usse agreement ho raha hai.... Unho ne ek untested crude below power A/C ko apna liya(I know they dint have any option and they had chinese help),,, par kam se kam induct to kiya without ioc and bhagwaan jaane FOC kab hoga uska....

first prototype- next year. Third prototype 2021 and then series production. They doesn't tested the plane well and now jf17 is futuristic widow making plane

 

[abhi_the _gr8_maratha]

I get your point but in todays world you want to acquire a technology which can survive a decade or two with out getting obsolete at that age you can plan to have a technology more than a decade old.... its a great aircraft but buying today will make then vulnarable in a coming few years even before completing half of there service life....

tejas is better than mirage and it is word of IAF pilot.

 

[Sea Eagle]

first prototype- next year. Third prototype 2021 and then series production. They doesn't tested the plane well and now jf17 is futuristic widow making plane

The prototype coming next year is of PAKFA not FGFA.

And by the time all 40 Tejas Mk I are inducted into service PAF would have three squadrons of JF-17 Block II. And by the time we see Tejas Mk II fly they would have started making JF-17 block III.

 

[abhi_the _gr8_maratha]

FGFA to Reach India in 2014
.
according to a report there is delays by 1 year.
.
jf17 block 2 technology is 4th gen technology. Its radar is not powerful, and simply it doesn't have any match for tejas . I think block3 will be near to tejas but then we will have a mk2.
.
@Sea Eagle

 

[Pulkit]

first prototype- next year. Third prototype 2021 and then series production. They doesn't tested the plane well and now jf17 is futuristic widow making plane

Bhai you just extended it by one year someone to whom i replied was saying 2025-2030 for induction ... by then we will have enough already in are fleet .....

and yes JF17 is a futuristic widow making plane I have said it Without IOC without FOC they have got it.... but here we are unneccessarily delaying FOC and hence induction... That was my point I know Its a No match to our Tejas...

Its just that whenever we tell its superior on any other Paki forum those sick heads only one argument ... "We have inducted it you hav enot"...
There is no fun in hitting our head with wall and making them understand anything...
I know once inducted they will say we inducted first so our A/C is better ....
Its just that i also feel its over delayed....

 

[Pulkit]

tejas is better than mirage and it is word of IAF pilot.

I think you didnt follow the conversation


sharing


"What be its benefit????

Hii Guys,

Is it possible for Modiji and French government to open again Mirage 2000 production line in India? Nothing is impossible.
vishal_lionheart ↑ "



So i said when We have tejas why should we start Miraag which is obsolete I never called Tejas That I can never even in 100 years from now....

 

[lcafanboy]

inda had mig 29 production line and all the relevant designs. india should have used the design of mig 29 and instead of rd33 engine should have used american ge f 414 engine the same as on lca mk2 and israelly aesa 2052 radar. this plane should have been stealth optimized with cantered tail and with gold tinted buble glass canopy and advanced composites and voila we could have our own potent medium fighter ready in no time.

 

[Drsomnath999]

Combat Aircraft Monthly , August 2014:

COURTESY-OLYBRIUS
THANK U FOR THE INFO MATE

 

[halloweene]

I found interesting information on bharat - rakshak. which was given by Viv S.
Rafale Doesn't have the stealth to penetrate too deep behind enemy lines. EW system is high end but mostly defensive. Radar performance is good but far from exceptional, limited as it is by its aperture size. Good endurance (with external tanks), but then our adversaries are right on the doorstep and we have plenty of forward air bases.
We want GREAT Fighter and not good fighter.
As far as Pakstan, The IAF can handle the Paks without any Rafales. The current fleet with upgrades and a full quota of Sukhois is quite sufficient. Our problem is China. We're have been outnumbered for a while and that disparity is only accelerating.
Can you imagine the result if we invested $10 billion directly into the industry, instead of having Dassault dole it out piecemeal to Reliance & Co.?

Well if you trust Viv S....

 

[p2prada]

inda had mig 29 production line and all the relevant designs. india should have used the design of mig 29 and instead of rd33 engine should have used american ge f 414 engine the same as on lca mk2 and israelly aesa 2052 radar. this plane should have been stealth optimized with cantered tail and with gold tinted buble glass canopy and advanced composites and voila we could have our own potent medium fighter ready in no time.

Interesting. Even IAF didn't know that.

 

[Pulkit]

inda had mig 29 production line and all the relevant designs. india should have used the design of mig 29 and instead of rd33 engine should have used american ge f 414 engine the same as on lca mk2 and israelly aesa 2052 radar. this plane should have been stealth optimized with cantered tail and with gold tinted buble glass canopy and advanced composites and voila we could have our own potent medium fighter ready in no time.

@p2prada Sharing ::::

Sir I dont understand your logic...
Still replying....
Engine change only will change the entire design...
As you Know in Tejas MK2(Dont call it LCA ) alot of design changes are being done...
On composites : just for information Thickness , Width ,length,fastners used and at top of it machines in assembly lines would have required change they dont act like mettalic that means we will need to start from scratch...

Its not like you can simply create a mettalic part with composite material.... strength and reliability of composite will be more so will be its cost...



How do you want to optimize it? what?

See its not like "kahiin ki mitti kahiin ka roda bhanumati ne kunba joda"...

you cannot just pick and assemble all good things together, its not feasible and technically possible...