Know Your 'Rafale'

[abhi_the _gr8_maratha]

idrw.org/?p=38672

 

[Immanuel]

Chief seems to be happy, must've been fun to fly with Katrina.

 

[halloweene]

It IS fun trust me... if you are not subject to sea-sick
But the incredible part is comfort when no manouever is on. MUCH more comfortable to big jets.

 

[abhi_the _gr8_maratha]

IAF Gets Close-Up Look At Rafale’s Capabilities At Garuda V | idrw.org

 

[cobra commando]

4 @Armee_de_lair Rafales departing in formation after the conclusion of #Garuda5.
(Source: Livefist)

 

[Kaalapani]

4 @Armee_de_lair Rafales departing in formation after the conclusion of #Garuda5.
(Source: Livefist)

bye bye see you later.

 

[Adux]

This above itself shows why it would have made more sense to buy the Super Hornet, which was nearly 30-40% cheaper than Rafale and had nearly 98% of the capability.

 

[halloweene]

The above slide is a SAAB advertisement.... No numerics, nothing.

 

[abhi_the _gr8_maratha]

rafale is better than super hornet.
.

and here is reason of political denial of hornet and why technically rafael suits IAF( cause IAF have huge experience in mirage and there are few similarities and rafael and mirage)
.
The Real Reasons for Rafale's Indian Victory @Adux

 

[Free Karma]

Ajai Shukla's new article, how credible is it?

Rafale contract elusive, Eurofighter and Saab remain hopeful | Business Standard

More than two years after India's ministry of defence (MoD) chose to buy 126 Dassault Rafale fighters for the Indian Air Force (IAF), the world's biggest fighter contract swings in the wind. With no deal in sight after 28 months of haggling with Dassault, two of the losing vendors -Eurofighter and Saab - believe they could yet come out tops.

Eurofighter GmbH, whose Typhoon fighter narrowly lost out to the Rafale, still retains a senior executive in New Delhi. This is to allow Eurofighter - the official runner-up - to quickly step in should negotiations with Dassault collapse.

Swedish company, Saab, whose Gripen-D light fighter was evaluated but not selected, similarly believes the contract remains open. Saab places hope in a proposal that it formulated with the Defence Research and Developments Organisation (DRDO) to co-develop and co-manufacture the improved Tejas Mark II Light Combat Aircraft (LCA). This affordable, indigenous, single-engine fighter could be built in numbers, providing the IAF a more economical and effective option than limited numbers of enormously expensive, twin-engine Rafales.

Saab believes that a successful Tejas Mark II would erode the need for the Rafale. The Swedish company has offered co-development and co-manufacture of the Tejas Mark II, even whilst fielding the cheapest and most economical fighter of the six in the fray.

As IAF officers confirm, India had intended to buy a cheap, light fighter to replace the IAF's MiG-21s as they were phased out of service. In late 2004, IAF sent out a "request for information", to four manufacturers of small, cheap fighters - the Russian MiG-29; the American F-16; the French Mirage-2000-5, and the Saab Gripen.

Only in August 2007, when IAF issued a formal tender - termed "request for proposal", or RfP - were expensive, twin-engine fighters like the Eurofighter, Rafale and F/A-18 regarded as options. Today, with the economy stuttering, the daunting prospect of paying Rs 1,00,000 crore for 126 fighters could mean that low cost becomes decisive.

Saab sees further advantage in backing the indigenous horse, the Tejas Mark II. The Swedish company claims it is best suited for upgrading the Tejas Mark I, since it is currently upgrading the Gripen-D by fitting a new engine, the General Electric F-414 power pack. Upgrading the Tejas Mark I to Mark II specifications involves exactly the same upgrade.

Last DRDO chief, Dr V K Saraswat, was convinced that Saab's assistance would be ideal for the Tejas programme. In 2012, DRDO sent Saab a "Request for Information" asking a rough estimate of costs, which Saab duly submitted.

In Jan 2013, DRDO followed up with a RfP, asking for technical and financial bids for Saab to jointly audit the Tejas design with DRDO. Saab had proposed an eight-10 month long audit, after which a fresh design would be finalised and a manufacturing line established.

MoD sources tell Business Standard that Saab proposed in 2011 to co-develop the Tejas Mark II and roll it out from a new manufacturing line within five years. Saab wanted at least 51 per cent ownership of the joint venture company that built the new Tejas, to be free of government controls and procedures.

By May 2013, a joint design contract seemed imminent, says Saab. But on June 1, a new DRDO chief, Dr Avinash Chander, took charge and Saab was unofficially told that DRDO could not co-develop the Tejas with a foreign company without an international tender to select the partner.

Contacted for comments, a DRDO spokesperson told Business Standard that design work on the Tejas Mark II is proceeding satisfactorily without a foreign partner.

In fact, MoD sources admit the Tejas Mark II programme faces significant design challenges beyond merely fitting a new engine. The Tejas Mark I was not designed with operational availability in mind, with important systems placed in inaccessible places that take time for technicians to reach. The Gripen-D, in contrast, requires just five man-hours of maintenance for an hour of flying. (The figure for the Tejas is not available, but the Rafale is estimated to require 15 man-hours).

Furthermore, the new F-414 engine would require the Tejas' length to be increased by half a metre. In addition, experts say the air intakes will have to be redesigned, since they do not allow in sufficient air for even the F-404 engine, far less the more powerful F-414 that will be fitted.

Aerospace analysts acknowledge Saab's expertise in building economical and effective fighters. The Gripen-D costs half as much as a Rafale. International expert, Jane's, puts the operating cost of a Gripen at $4,700 per flight hour, while flying a Rafale for an hour costs $15,000.

 

[Twinblade]

Ajai Shukla's new article, how credible is it?

Rafale contract elusive, Eurofighter and Saab remain hopeful | Business Standard

The Tejas Mark I was not designed with operational availability in mind, with important systems placed in inaccessible places that take time for technicians to reach. The Gripen-D, in contrast, requires just five man-hours of maintenance for an hour of flying

This is patently absurd. Tejas is designed for quick turn around time. The 8 minute re-arming and refueling time (much like 10 minutes for Gripen), does not come out of thin air.

 

[power_monger]

Loads of shit in the report.This is the first time i am hearing that Tejas is difficult to operate? The first hand reports of pilots were always positive. would any pilot be happy if control systems are wrongly positioned?

 

[aerokan]

Loads of shit in the report.This is the first time i am hearing that Tejas is difficult to operate? The first hand reports of pilots were always positive. would any pilot be happy if control systems are wrongly positioned?

They are not referring to operating the bird.. Operating the bird and operational availability are totally different. And, yeah the report falsely assumes that the operational availability of Tejas is low which is false and has been proven otherwise by the quick turn around which was demonstated a while back.. it was posted in this thread before as well..

Sent from my C6506 using Tapatalk

 

[Pulkit]

"Saab believes that a successful Tejas Mark II would erode the need for the Rafale. " is a statement from the article...
I know that MK2 Tejas will be bigger will be bale to carry more payload range will be definately better so will be the stealth feauture and communication etc etc. but will it be able to match Rafale?
If yes then we can delay Rafale for another 2 years quite common here we have seen it in this case aswell as Tejas MK1....
Then we can straightway go for Tejas MK2 sidelining IAF for sure as they will surely find a nuks in it even after 100's of test flights...

It will save alot of our defense budget ....

Is it possible?????

 

[power_monger]

I believe that instead of straight forwardly rejecting the Rafalle which would bring bad reputation for India(after many such deals seeing same fate),they should go for a limited numbers citing talks breakdown.

 

[AVERAGE INDIAN]

India's Fighter Jet Negotiations Stall Over Delivery Commitments

NEW DELHI — India's $12 billion Medium Multi-role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) program has run into turbulence due to a disagreement over delivery commitments, according to an Indian Defence Ministry source.

The Indian Air Force has told the new government that Dassault Aviation, maker of the Rafale jet, and Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd. (HAL), which will produce the aircraft in India, must put their delivery guarantees in writing before the MoD signs the contract, the MoD source said.

HAL is unwilling to give any written guarantee on the delivery schedule for the Indian-made Rafales, and instead wants Dassault to guarantee deliveries of the Indian-made aircraft, a condition the French have already rejected, the MoD source said.

The program's request for proposal stipulates that the first 18 aircraft will be supplied by the vendor — Dassault — in fly-away condition and the remaining 108 aircraft will be manufactured — in this case, by HAL — through technology transfer. The delivery of the aircraft should begin three years after the contract is signed.

India gave Dassault "preferred bidder status" in 2012 for the $12 billion program.

The MMRCA contract negotiations have also been delayed because HAL has not finalized the cost of the India-made Rafale.

No date is available for when the final cost of the Indian-made Rafale will be provided to the MoD, according to a senior HAL official.

Signing the deal within six months is unlikely, the MoD source said.

Executives from Dassault were unavailable for comment.

MoD had set up four subcommittees in the run-up to the finalization of the MMRCA deal with Dassault. They are: Technology of Production; Offsets; Logistics; and Cost Negotiations.

While the committees on Logistics and Offsets are almost ready with their reports, the remaining two are delayed, the MoD source added.

A team from HAL representing various sections of the production department visited Dassault facilities in France last month to understand the production process as it attempts to calculate the cost of the Indian-made Rafale, the HAL official said.

The delays in finalizing the deal have not only pushed back delivery of the fighter, but also led to cost escalations of more than 30 percent, an Air Force official said.

The first request for information for the MMRCA was floated in December 2005; the request for proposals followed in August 2007.

Rafale beat the Eurofighter Typhoon only on the basis of cost, after only the two bidders were left in the field.

The F-16, F/A-18, Gripen and MiG-35 were ejected from competition after the flight trials in August 2011 and the cost was not taken into consideration. â– 

http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/indian-air-force/31082-dassault-rafale-wins-mmrca-232.html

 

[abhi_the _gr8_maratha]

Rafale deal stuck due to lack of Delivery Commitments by Hal and Dassault | idrw.org

 

[cobra commando]

Dassault Said to Close in on Rafale Contract to Lift Exports - Bloomberg

 

[AVERAGE INDIAN]

 

[Drsomnath999]

FROM ASIAN MILITARY REVIEW MAGAZINE JUNE 2014