Know Your 'Rafale'

[halloweene]

La Reunion is quite a crazy island, go there for holidays if you can...

 

[Kaalapani]

Absolutely, not that they like it....
But there was also a message in this mission : we cah hit 10K kils away.

do you want to hit murica.

 

[halloweene]

Nah of course not, but we want ppl lto know we cna hit near anywhere.

 

[halloweene]

some images of la réunion

 

[Immanuel]

Absolutely indiatester

Guess whay Immanuel? Do you really think such huge deals are not anticpated by possible change of majority after elections?

Offcourse these things are taken into account, yet taking these things into account didn't help the Rafale in any of the deals so far. With UPA tainted with corruption, the new Modi Govt. will dig up ever major deal and Rafale will be no different. I don't dispute that Rafale and EF were in the downselect and were technically the most compliant birds at the time of trials, questions still remain as to how the L-1 was determined and the obvious price rise will not be immune to scrutiny.

I don't see the Rafale deal surviving this political fight, besides the price is only increasing, more and more it makes no sense to order the rafale.

 

[ersakthivel]

L'île de la Réunion accueille pour la première fois le Rafale

So It can fly 2+ hours with a single refuel ..and It takes nearly 11 hours to reach Reunion Island. distance from French mainland to
Reunion Island is about 5,717 miles or 9200 KM ..so nearly 900 KM per Hour or 560 mile Per Hour ..interesting

With what weapon load it was flying?

Can we assume that its practical non refuelled radius of action with normal combat weapon load is about 900 Km?

 

[SajeevJino]

With what weapon load it was flying?

there were 2 Two Seater Rafale carrying two Fuel tanks looks like 1200liters Tank enroute to reunion islands

a two seater rafale along with two 1200 liter tank can fly more than 2 hours can go 900km up/down ..So it's well we can see Rafale in SEAD config can engage target upto 400KM inside enemy territory with out Drop tanks ..

two drop tanks with a Full combat load it can go around 500 KM inside hostile Territory can Destroy enemy Infrastructure

with decent A2A load along with two or three Drop tanks can stay in the air for more than 2 hours can act as a Good CAP platform.

Can we assume that its practical non refuelled radius of action with normal combat weapon load is about 900 Km?

agreed ...

 

[ace009]

Numbers winning air superiority days are over.
IAF needs mature platforms for next 20 years till India's own aeronautics industry matures enough to develop 5th or 6th gen planes.

Tejas is still a work in progress and would remain so till it is replaced by something else 20years from now.
It is really a test bed for IAF and HAL to develop indigenous technology.

The expectation is that HAL or other Indian companies will get enough tech momentum through these developmental cycles till they catchup with the OECD world.

In the mean time Rafale is a good deal - maybe the Eurofighter would have been as good too. But either of them serve the same purpose for IAF - a mature technology with proven track record that can provide a sustainable 20-25 years service ...

The payloads, engine type, weapons specs etc are all mere details compared to the broader strategic needs.

It is important for India not to be overly dependent on one defense supplier like Russia for fighter planes, also important that the technology can be assimilated into Indian industry - probably Dassault is more amenable than the EADS multi- nations conglomerate.

Anyway ...

1. IAF need mature proven platform- LCA Tejas is not that
2. Better not put all eggs in one basket of - MiG 35 is not good
3. Need better stealth than large Su-30 and PAK-FA is too far away
4. Need large payload - EF 2000 and Rafale better than Gripen
5. Need a tech transfer partner -probably better Dassault than EADS ....

So, all in all, Rafale won ....

What's the crazy conspiracy tinfoil hat talk still going on this forum about LCA being better than Rafale?



So, in short

RAfale is too costly for what it delivers , nothing else. and originally IAF just wanted another 126 Mirages as late as 2004
which morphed into this MMRCA contract.

So there was no original burning need for a medium weight fighter when we have both light tejas and heavy SU-30 MKI.

 

[laughingbuddha]

True. I have also been a great supporter of lca and my pride knew no bounds. But reality kicked in. Lca will continue perhaps in another avatar but rafale is the need of the hour and here's hoping that the new govt will see wisdom in inducting the rafale in greater numbers.

 

[p2prada]

True. I have also been a great supporter of lca and my pride knew no bounds. But reality kicked in.

Haha. I was part of this club too. I was tutored by a pilot on what's right and what's wrong.

 

[ersakthivel]

True. I have also been a great supporter of lca and my pride knew no bounds. But reality kicked in. Lca will continue perhaps in another avatar but rafale is the need of the hour and here's hoping that the new govt will see wisdom in inducting the rafale in greater numbers.

When did reality kick in?

http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...air-force-news-discussions-16.html#post892758

Please clarify my posts there and give me a reality check as well.

 

[ersakthivel]

Haha. I was part of this club too. I was tutored by a pilot on what's right and what's wrong.

Ha Ha Ha, By the grace of God no pilot tutored me any wrong info on tejas!!!!

It was good that I got all the credible info from Suneeth krishna who is the award winning test pilot of tejas!!!!

 

[ersakthivel]

Numbers winning air superiority days are over.
IAF needs mature platforms for next 20 years till India's own aeronautics industry matures enough to develop 5th or 6th gen planes.

Tejas is still a work in progress and would remain so till it is replaced by something else 20years from now.
It is really a test bed for IAF and HAL to develop indigenous technology.

The expectation is that HAL or other Indian companies will get enough tech momentum through these developmental cycles till they catchup with the OECD world.

In the mean time Rafale is a good deal - maybe the Eurofighter would have been as good too. But either of them serve the same purpose for IAF - a mature technology with proven track record that can provide a sustainable 20-25 years service ...

The payloads, engine type, weapons specs etc are all mere details compared to the broader strategic needs.

It is important for India not to be overly dependent on one defense supplier like Russia for fighter planes, also important that the technology can be assimilated into Indian industry - probably Dassault is more amenable than the EADS multi- nations conglomerate.

Anyway ...

1. IAF need mature proven platform- LCA Tejas is not that
2. Better not put all eggs in one basket of - MiG 35 is not good
3. Need better stealth than large Su-30 and PAK-FA is too far away
4. Need large payload - EF 2000 and Rafale better than Gripen
5. Need a tech transfer partner -probably better Dassault than EADS ....

So, all in all, Rafale won ....

What's the crazy conspiracy tinfoil hat talk still going on this forum about LCA being better than Rafale?



So, in short

In short,

http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...air-force-news-discussions-16.html#post892758

follow the above thread to know as the same topic is discussed there.

Other than screw driver tech what tech does dassault transfer to india?

We already have composite tech,

Will rafale transfer Engine SCB tech and ASES radar tech from scratch?

Just go to broadsword blog where the russians are still supplying all the alloy and titanium blocks for even the air frame and bearings and seals , we are just machining them and assembling them.

Only after the tejas program we came to know we dont even have the right material for nose cone to cover the radome. So what tech did the russians transfer to us?

After twenty years of the deal MRF is just making tyres for Su-30 MKI that too with no inputs from russia.

 

[Drsomnath999]

Deterrence: the Air Force is considering a hypersonic missile nuclear

Continuing its hearings on the French nuclear deterrence cycle, the Committee on National Defence and Armed Forces of the National Assembly heard on April 15 General Denis Mercier, Chief of Staff of the Army of Air (CEMAA) and General Patrick Charaix, commander of the Strategic Air Forces (SAF). Referring to the modernization of the airborne component of deterrence, the CEMAA recalled that two projects are being considered to replace the current nuclear cruise missile ASMP-A, carried by the Rafale and Mirage 2000N "one favoring stealth missile, the other hypervelocity thereof with outlook Mach Mach 7 or 8, "he has said. "This second solution has my favor," said the aviator.


"The control of hypervelocity appears already as a central factor," says General Mercier members, adding that many countries such as the United States, Russia, China and India already conducting experiments in this area. "I imagine with difficulty that France, which has an undeniable advance in ramjet, remains untouched by these developments," says the pilot.

This long-term evolution of the AGM French, whose eventual launch could be decided by 2016, will require to make a "capability out" and engage "real work with the CEA and with MBDA technological research, especially on the strength of materials and propellants, "in the words of General Patrick Charaix.

The CEMAA also reminds that "as regards the missile ASMP-A, a processing operation obsolescence and improvement of certain minimum performance to fit the known anti-missile missiles will be carried out and should last about ten years" . This renovation project in mid-life, which should theoretically be commissioned this year by the Directorate General of Armaments (DGA) to MBDA and CEA, will also "improve the likelihood of successful shots" of According to General Mercier.

Commenting on the complementarity of the air component relative to nuclear submarines ballistic missile, the patron of FAS emphasizes the "high precision missile ASMP-A", supposed to provide "the ability to destroy highly resistant and objectives execute strikes and adaptable to strictly comply with those agreed by the President of the Republic "effects. "We bring the accuracy and the ocean component provides a wider effect," summed up the general Mercier.

https://translate.google.co.in/tran...ile-nucleaire-hypersonique&edit-text=&act=url

 

[halloweene]

This news is already in India? Did accidently any forumer here say there were many coops between MBDA and Bharat systems?

 

[Drsomnath999]

This news is already in India? Did accidently any forumer here say there were many coops between MBDA and Bharat systems?

i didnt get the point !! whats your point basically

Well india has been cooperating with russians on brahmos hypersonic missile , If MBDA has plans to co-operate on perseus supersonic cruise missile with india then thats ALSO good

btw the french ONERA has been researching on hypersonic missile in the name of LEA program

For more refer
http://ftp.rta.nato.int/public/PubFullText/RTO/EN\RTO-EN-AVT-185/EN-AVT-185-17.pdf

COURTESY-Liger30
THANK U FOR THE INFO MATE




CHEERS

 

[halloweene]

Well, now LEA name is for a totally different thing, whatever.
i just meant i think i mentioned a long time ago coops between Bharat systems and Mbda about hypersonic missiles, nvm.

 

[Glint]

Any idea when would India receive its first Unit of Rafale? or its still not decided yet

 

[abhi_the _gr8_maratha]

100 su30mki will cost 6.7 billion, 100 tejas mk1 will cost 2.7billion and 100 mk2 will cost 3.5 billion so we can have 300 fighters in 12.9 billion even lesser price for 126 rafael
those who attacks tejas should know that
tejas is stealthier than rafael
those who says about payload should know one thing if a fighter carrier 10 missiles with higher rcs can be shooted by an aircraft carrying 1 bvr with lesser rcs and aesa radar( mk2 have aesa, and according to saraswat they gonna fix aesa latfr on tejas)
tejas have one of the best HMDS
tejas have one of the best avionics ie most of avionics from su30mki
even iaf pilot agrees that tejas is better than mirage then why not induct it instead of rafael

 

[SajeevJino]

100 su30mki will cost 6.7 billion, 100 tejas mk1 will cost 2.7billion and 100 mk2 will cost 3.5 billion so we can have 300 fighters in 12.9 billion even lesser price for 126 rafael
those who attacks tejas should know that
tejas is stealthier than rafael
those who says about payload should know one thing if a fighter carrier 10 missiles with higher rcs can be shooted by an aircraft carrying 1 bvr with lesser rcs and aesa radar( mk2 have aesa, and according to saraswat they gonna fix aesa latfr on tejas)
tejas have one of the best HMDS
tejas have one of the best avionics ie most of avionics from su30mki
even iaf pilot agrees that tejas is better than mirage then why not induct it instead of rafael

Check out @ace009 's Post on http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/indian-air-force/31082-dassault-rafale-wins-mmrca-227.html#post892165 Post # 3400 .you get an Idea