Know Your 'Rafale'

[BON PLAN]

Outselling F-35? It hasn't won a single competition against F-35. In nations not offered F-35, it managed to outsell F-16 only this year thanks to UAE order. Otherwise Rafale was not even keeping up with sales of F-16!

Comparing Rafale to F35 has absolutely no sense if you don't take into account the GDP or France vs USA (an indication of the diplomatic power effect).
7 vs 1 .... it's huge.

So the actual level of sales of Rafale is quite good. In the west challenging USA is nearly impossible.

 

[Wisemarko]

Comparing Rafale to F35 has absolutely no sense if you don't take into account the GDP or France vs USA (an indication of the diplomatic power effect).
7 vs 1 .... it's huge.

Finally you understand: Rafale is only a match for older F-16 block 50/52 nothing more. F-35 is a bridge too far.

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

Vietnam kicked out the French in Indochina war.

 

[Love Charger]

It's not one thing... it's ongoing for 800 years, Surrendering first to the English and then to Germans. Looks like a national habit.

Vietnam kicked out the French in Indochina war. It was much worse than US involvement In Vietnam.

Naepoleon wants to know your location.

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

Finally you understand: Rafale is only a match for older F-16 block 50/52 nothing more. F-35 is a bridge too far.

Rafale cannot be compared to F-35 stealth & EW but it will drill F-35's & almost every non-TVC jet's pilot's brains in gunfight almost everytime. And our customized version at least is much better than F-16 block-50/52 which Pakistan has got. You expect our DoD to get an inferior much costlier jet than Pakistan? Are they mortgaging or selling their cities & agreeing to be slaves of USA, China, etc if they loose war with us?

 

[Shekhar Singh]

Finally you understand: Rafale is only a match for older F-16 block 50/52 nothing more. F-35 is a bridge too far.

Give proper explanation with facts. You can choose following parameters for your analysis.
1- Range
2- Payload
3- Radar
4- EW
5- BVR
6- WVR
7- SEAD
8- DEAD
9- Endurance
10- Atomic Attack
11- RCS

 

[BON PLAN]

Finally you understand: Rafale is only a match for older F-16 block 50/52 nothing more. F-35 is a bridge too far.

Finally a proof you understand nothing.

 

[DumbPilot]

The sole 5th gen fighter, according to own LM vocabulary, is the F22. 5th gen LM definition was : supercruise able (not the F35 case) + Stealth + F16 like agile (not the F35 case) + sensor fusion.
We can see that LM modify the criteria for 5th gen : it's now only a marketing speech.

F16 like agile - this one is certainly false. We don't have EM charts of any F-35 with any sort of load, but the fact is that a F-35 can beat a F-16 when both are carrying equipment -- because the F-35 has its internal bay, which means zero obstructions to airflow; performance akin to a 'clean' jet -- but the F-16 can't beat the F-35 in BFM/ACM when carrying loads because it has the pylons AND the payload, which it will have to jettison to go into CAT-I FLCS mode to remove the flight computer restrictions and allow more Gs on the aircraft(turning rate).

Even on F-16 EM charts with only 2 AIM120s and centerline fuel tank configuration, the maximum turn rate of the F-16 is somewhere around ~21°/sec at corner speed - both of which, again, can't be maintained for too long without breaching altitude, fuel or safety hazards.

 

[BON PLAN]

F16 like agile - this one is certainly false. We don't have EM charts of any F-35 with any sort of load, but the fact is that a F-35 can beat a F-16 when both are carrying equipment -- because the F-35 has its internal bay, which means zero obstructions to airflow; performance akin to a 'clean' jet -- but the F-16 can't beat the F-35 in BFM/ACM when carrying loads because it has the pylons AND the payload, which it will have to jettison to go into CAT-I FLCS mode to remove the flight computer restrictions and allow more Gs on the aircraft(turning rate).

Even on F-16 EM charts with only 2 AIM120s and centerline fuel tank configuration, the maximum turn rate of the F-16 is somewhere around ~21°/sec at corner speed - both of which, again, can't be maintained for too long without breaching altitude, fuel or safety hazards.

during a real air combat simulation between a clean F35 and a double seat F26 with 2 belly tanks, the winner was not F35.

 

[DumbPilot]

during a real air combat simulation between a clean F35 and a double seat F26 with 2 belly tanks, the winner was not F35.

Where was this engagement, and when was it?

 

[johnj]

during a real air combat simulation between a clean F35 and a double seat F26 with 2 belly tanks, the winner was not F35.

F 26 ?

 

[DumbPilot]

F 26 ?

I think BON PLAN meant F-16 but had a typo

 

[Love Charger]

What happened to Napoleon?

in his dream

He was exiled to St Helena sadly.

 

[silverghost]

Show me where US surrendered? We left. Big difference between leaving an occupied territory versus opening up your city to enemy:
View attachment 148482

The US left their weapons & took the fastest exit path from the enemy territory. Here is a video to refresh your mind.

 

[Covfefe]

Please take the political discussion to relevant thread. This thread is only for Rafale related discussion.
@ezsasa thread cleanup required

 

[hit&run]

Guys, a lot of reports from this threads. Please stay on topic.

 

[Picard]

It's not one thing... it's ongoing for 800 years, Surrendering first to the English and then to Germans. Looks like a national habit.

Vietnam kicked out the French in Indochina war. It was much worse than US involvement In Vietnam.

Please learn a bit. France conquered the entire Europe in early 19th century. Before that, United States only achieved independence from the British because of the French help.

I dislike France for quite a few reasons - most importantly the help they had provided the Ottomans - but the "cheese eating surrender monkeys" is a myth that has to die.

Anyway, back onto topic...

Finally you understand: Rafale is only a match for older F-16 block 50/52 nothing more. F-35 is a bridge too far.

Rafale surpasses F-35 in quite a few things. It is faster, more agile, has better weapons, better EW suite (has to), lower IR signature... it does have higher RCS and weaker radar, but that's about it.

 

[Echo1Charlie]

Rafale F4 cockpit set up

 

[Wisemarko]

Rafale surpasses F-35 in quite a few things. It is faster, more agile, has better weapons, better EW suite (has to), lower IR signature... it does have higher RCS and weaker radar, but that's about it.

How much misinformation one can put in a single comment!
EW:
Rafale does not come even close to F-35 in
EW!
eg: Rafale cannot mount active electronic attack like F-18G and F-35. It has 10 times less electronic power to do so. SPECTRA is primarily a defensive suite with barely 3 passive sensors, supported by small 800 TRM AESA of old design. F-35 radar has double the TRM, latest notch arena design( that RBE- of Rafale lacks) that is 2 generations ahead of Rafale radar. Please don't make yourself look like a fool repeating nonsense!

IR signature:
Really?!! I should not even respond to this. A mostly metal design (Rafale) with two engines has less IR signature than composite design, shrouded, heat dissipating single higher bypass engine! Wow for tall claims.

Agility/ Turn rate- yes absolutely. The older designs focused on speed- see how fast Mig-21/F-4 were. They all are Mach >2.
Then came low speed agility: F-18, Gripen, Eurofighter, Rafale all <=Mach 2.. then came stealth F-22, F-35 (at cost of first two features). That's called evolution.

Weapons: Rafale doesn't even have anti radiation weapons! Except meteor which is being fitted right now to F-35, Rafale doesn't have a single weapon that is even close to what all US aircraft can carry: it has a very limited and overprlist of weapons actually:
1. Mica
2. Meteor
3. SCALP
4. Exocet
5. HAMMER
6. Paveway II/ III kits
THATS IT!! No JDAM/ No NSM/ no HARM

Compare that to this--
F-35 Weapons compatibility

• AIM-9X Sidewinder
• AIM-132 ASRAAM
• AIM-120 AMRAAM
• MBDA Meteor (Block 4, for F-35B)
• Air-to-surface missiles:
  • AGM-88G AARGM-ER (Block 4)
  • AGM-158 JASSM
  • SPEAR 3 (Block 4, in development)
  • Joint Air-to-Ground Missile(JAGM)
• Air-to-surface/Anti-ship missiles:
  • Joint Strike Missile (JSM)
• Anti-ship missiles:
  • AGM-158C LRASM
• A2G:
  • Paveway series laser-guided bombs
  • AGM-154 JSOW
  • Joint Direct Attack Munition (JDAM) series

There is no comparison...

 

[Emperor Kalki]

Rafale F4 cockpit set up

View attachment 148673

Actually, I think he was in a su 30 asking the rafales to launch what seems to be HAMMER PGMs at a couple of, presumably, pakistani f-16s that had already launched some weapons at his su 30.
So I guess you could have gone with "super sukhoi cockpit setup" instead of f4. But....whatever