Know Your 'Rafale'

BON PLAN

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Rafale AESA is a first generation AESA with old fashioned slotted arrays, only 800 TRM GaA and beginner software. Yes, it is as old in tech as first AESA AN/APG-77v1 fielded on F-22 in 1999.
Northrop and Raytheon have 20 year lead on Thales in AESA.. Even SAAB has lead over Thales in this arena. Their PS-05 mod 4 AESA for Gripen E/NG with 1000 GaN TRM, much wider bandwidth and higher peak power is way more capable than RAFALE's RBE-AA radar.
No no no.

First AESA Rafale radar, called the RBE2 AA (AA for antenne active), was made in 2004 of 1st gen US T/R.
They were big (so probably your unproved "800TRM" ), they were not very potent : only 25% more range than PESA radar. It is why UAE in 2011 needed a more powerfull radar so as to increase the range by 10%. To did this Thales studied a 14kw radar with a very complex cooling system....

some years after Thales used european T/R : no more extra cooling system. With the legacy 10kw power the range was more than twice those of PESA.... and the modules are also smaller, this is why there are more than 1000 modules on the RBE2 AESA ( RBE2 AESA is the final description of the radar on production since 10 tears).

I know the US and British average people are counting the modules of the sole pic of the RBE2 active radar.... but is was the pic of RBE2 AA..... the older one.... with US shit modules.

20 years ahead.... Gripen E radar is even not fully operationnal.... pityfull.
 

BON PLAN

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So again, focus on marketing to fool the third world nations or nations that can't get F-35. That's the best bet for Dassault. Hopefully after the war, F-35 may open up to India.
Some US generals officially saif the F35 is not ready for war.
Called me back when your flying turkey will be FOC, and not the risible and politically correct IOC of today.
 

Wisemarko

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Even an average american should know that 3 detectors are enough to cover 360 if they are well made.
Well made per french standards - not good enough for any other European nation!

F-35 designers know better and use 10 of those. Heck even Gripen uses 6!
 

Wisemarko

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Some US generals officially saif the F35 is not ready for war.
Called me back when your flying turkey will be FOC, and not the risible and politically correct IOC of today.
US is free country: "some" generals can say whatever they want. Proof of the pudding is in its eating. 1400 orders and climbing every month.
 

Wisemarko

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GoI/IAF/DoD has made clear that ther won't be any 5th gen purchases. Rather that money will be invested in AMCA. Unilateral dependency has to end, that's natural & apparent in era of globalization. I hope the stupid monarch dynasty don't return to power ever in an era of increasing education.
Moreiver F-35 & S-400 cannot go together. And some people desiring to impose CAATSA on India is also a problem when we don't intend to be anybody's adversary except for invaders from anywhere, like Pakistan.
So just like in commercial IT sector we can colaborate in military sub-systems level too.
In politics and love, never say never
 

Wisemarko

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Sometimes we are left in a dicy situation with no other option than to pay more for a desired quality d
I agree. Generations of US policy makers aided by socialist Indian politicians of the past have made US a controversial partner in India. Times have changed a lot but people react to "media noise" way too much.
In a free country like US, think tanks or organizations put out reports offending many allied foreign countries leaving the White House and State department to clean up the mess. One advise is to never listen to anyone but people that matter. Second advise is to always get weapons from the best manufacturers and work the foreign policy to ensure the supply. Not the other way around.

When foreign policy dictates weapon purchase, you end up with either substandard or overpriced items: most Russian and many French products purchased by india fall in either of these two categories. I see excellent future for India US relations.
 

Wisemarko

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No no no.

First AESA Rafale radar, called the RBE2 AA (AA for antenne active), was made in 2004 of 1st gen US T/R.
They were big (so probably your unproved "800TRM" ), they were not very potent : only 25% more range than PESA radar. It is why UAE in 2011 needed a more powerfull radar so as to increase the range by 10%. To did this Thales studied a 14kw radar with a very complex cooling system....

some years after Thales used european T/R : no more extra cooling system. With the legacy 10kw power the range was more than twice those of PESA.... and the modules are also smaller, this is why there are more than 1000 modules on the RBE2 AESA ( RBE2 AESA is the final description of the radar on production since 10 tears).

I know the US and British average people are counting the modules of the sole pic of the RBE2 active radar.... but is was the pic of RBE2 AA..... the older one.... with US shit modules.

20 years ahead.... Gripen E radar is even not fully operationnal.... pityfull.
I don't think you have any knowledge of your own RBE-AA radar or access to basic military information. THALES still makes decades old Gallium Arsenide modules for RBE-AA. Total TRM only 800 because Rafale nose is not big enough and power capacity limit is only 10kva. It is the first AESA developed by french so we don't expect to match 20 year US lead overnight.
 
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Tridev123

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@BON PLAN .
There is some degree of apprehension in India about the J20 and its capabilities.
In case the PLAAF deploys an squadron or more at airfields in Tibet or Xinjiang.

While not trying to get into an comparison between the J20 and Indian Rafales(would be like oranges and apples almost as both differ in category and role), what are the chances of the Rafales radar picking up J20 from an comfortable distance and guiding the Meteor for the kill. Does the RBE2 radar have anti stealth properties.

The Chinese propaganda would have us to believe that an encounter between the Rafale and the J20 would be an one sided affair with the J20 emerging the clear winner.

Since France is close to NATO there will be intelligence sharing between it and the US and other powers. How does Washington and the Pentagon assess the performance of the J20. Based on whatever information you are privy to can you assess the chances of the Rafale against the J20.
 

Bhartiya Sainik

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I agree. Generations of US policy makers aided by socialist Indian politicians of the past have made US a controversial partner in India. Times have changed a lot but people react to "media noise" way too much.
In a free country like US, think tanks or organizations put out reports offending many allied foreign countries leaving the White House and State department to clean up the mess. One advise is to never listen to anyone but people that matter. Second advise is to always get weapons from the best manufacturers and work the foreign policy to ensure the supply. Not the other way around.

When foreign policy dictates weapon purchase, you end up with either substandard or overpriced items: most Russian and many French products purchased by india fall in either of these two categories. I see excellent future for India US relations.
Puppeted Monarchy is problem not Socialism which is balance b/w extremities of Capitalism & Communism.
India is like country of countries, similar to current EU, but not as prosperous as EU, hence complete capitalism is hazardous & can lead to amplification of corruption & even national disintegration. There is a huge difference b/w 52 states of USA & 28 states + 8 UTs of India. We don't wan't situation like Korea, Vietnam, Germany, Ukraine, Yugoslavia, etc. Hence we focus on a dynamic system of what is needed where. Free market economy is allowed, there are private business tycoons also like Birala, Tata, Ambani, etc but there is problem also. Extremely powerful business owers can puppet, destabilize & overthrow governments. Defence R&D should be limited to private sector till sub-systems level. It works in West with firms like Lockheed, Northrop, Boeing, etc bcoz population is culturally homogenous & there is an entire ecosystem of culturally common western countrie, but in India currently there is lots of anti-cultural & anti-national influences. Poverty & lack of opportunity of education, health, housing, food, medical facilities, etc are caused by extreme or comprehensive capitalism. Then these are possible security cconcerns also. There have been many western movies where weapons are covertly sold abroad bcoz govt. rejected it, or private contractors staged a coup & presidential assasination. Eraser, Shooter, A-team, Falcon Down, Angel has fallen, xXx-state of the union, etc.
I also see good future of Indo-US relations but USA & entire West must realize few things & adjust their foreign policies also -
1USD=70+ INR, 1GBP=100 INR, this gap has to be reduced. For example, CCNA exam costs 300 USD which is not much to an American but an Indian has to pay 300x70=21,000 INR which hurts the students & professionals a lot. So the American IT companies need to relax certification exam costs.
West should not interfere in those regional matters through UN or self which are internal, national, historical, cultural. West should be committed against terrorism & stop all aid to terror countries & should not drag other countries in thier matters or even matters which are not theirs like current Ukraine crisis & should not force others to take sides which will divide the world & plunge into global cold war or even World War.
 

BON PLAN

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I don't think you have any knowledge of your own RBE-AA radar or access to basic military information. THALES still makes decades old Gallium Arsenide modules for RBE-AA. Total TRM only 800 because Rafale nose is not big enough and power capacity limit is only 10kva. It is the first AESA developed by french so we don't expect to match 20 year US lead overnight.
Your are totally unaware of european tech.
The RBE2 AESA use european T/R, not french ones. It is more than enough to say your are a noob and a US troll. Good night.
 

BON PLAN

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I don't think you have any knowledge of your own RBE-AA radar or access to basic military information. THALES still makes decades old Gallium Arsenide modules for RBE-AA. Total TRM only 800 because Rafale nose is not big enough and power capacity limit is only 10kva. It is the first AESA developed by french so we don't expect to match 20 year US lead overnight.
Just add that the RBE2 AESA radar uses all the software studied for PESA, because from the beginning the radar was thought to have an AESA antenna in a second time (it takes 2 hours to replace the antenna). That means that this radar can use a 20+ years software road map.
 

BON PLAN

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@BON PLAN .
There is some degree of apprehension in India about the J20 and its capabilities.
In case the PLAAF deploys an squadron or more at airfields in Tibet or Xinjiang.

While not trying to get into an comparison between the J20 and Indian Rafales(would be like oranges and apples almost as both differ in category and role), what are the chances of the Rafales radar picking up J20 from an comfortable distance and guiding the Meteor for the kill. Does the RBE2 radar have anti stealth properties.

The Chinese propaganda would have us to believe that an encounter between the Rafale and the J20 would be an one sided affair with the J20 emerging the clear winner.

Since France is close to NATO there will be intelligence sharing between it and the US and other powers. How does Washington and the Pentagon assess the performance of the J20. Based on whatever information you are privy to can you assess the chances of the Rafale against the J20.
USA only share this kind of information with Canada, Australia, NZ and GB.
I don't know how stealthy is the J20. Some characteristics are strange for a so called stealth aircraft.
Anti stealth technology? Multistatism is on study for F4.2 or F4.3 std. It will be a breakthrough in anti stealth.
 

Tridev123

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USA only share this kind of information with Canada, Australia, NZ and GB.
I don't know how stealthy is the J20. Some characteristics are strange for a so called stealth aircraft.
Anti stealth technology? Multistatism is on study for F4.2 or F4.3 std. It will be a breakthrough in anti stealth.
Thanks for the reply.
Yes, I know answering the question without access to classified data on the specifications of the J20 is difficult.
Only educated guesses can be made. But I believe that if the Meteor manages to get a lock on to the J20, the Chinese plane is doomed.
Also major Chinese weapons have not been proven in combat. So many feel that they are hyped up and probably less effective than advertised.

Happy to hear that the radar of the Rafale is evolving and possibly may get the capability to spot stealth aircraft. Maybe some hardware changes but I guess most of the work will be in software up gradation.

India's Rafales will no doubt benefit from the upgrade in the future.

A question. Since France(Dassault) is now going to design and manufacture 5th generation stealth aircraft, what are the timelines. When can we expect the first prototype. What about the engine. Any chance of collaboration with India on 5th generation stealth technologies. It would be nice if an jointly developed high thrust Indo-French jet engine were to power both of our proposed 5th generation fighters. We are going aggressively to develop our AMCA which is also an 5th generation plane.
 

BON PLAN

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Thanks for the reply.
Yes, I know answering the question without access to classified data on the specifications of the J20 is difficult.
Only educated guesses can be made. But I believe that if the Meteor manages to get a lock on to the J20, the Chinese plane is doomed.
Also major Chinese weapons have not been proven in combat. So many feel that they are hyped up and probably less effective than advertised.

Happy to hear that the radar of the Rafale is evolving and possibly may get the capability to spot stealth aircraft. Maybe some hardware changes but I guess most of the work will be in software up gradation.

India's Rafales will no doubt benefit from the upgrade in the future.

A question. Since France(Dassault) is now going to design and manufacture 5th generation stealth aircraft, what are the timelines. When can we expect the first prototype. What about the engine. Any chance of collaboration with India on 5th generation stealth technologies. It would be nice if an jointly developed high thrust Indo-French jet engine were to power both of our proposed 5th generation fighters. We are going aggressively to develop our AMCA which is also an 5th generation plane.
The targeting capacity of Rafale are not only linked to its radar. Rafale also uses a very efficient optronic system. India's rafale are fitted with the latest gen of this OSF (frontal sector optronic). It is able to identify a jet at more than 40 km and elaborate a fire solution for MICA (but outside the no escape range ot this missile, as those of AMRAAM for exemple) but perfectly inside the NEZ of Meteor (> 70km).

The Indian Rafale are the most evolved so far. They are natively F3R, so built with full provisions to be directly and without hard modification upgraded to F4.2. It's not the case of the whole french fleet (this is also why we sell some in 2nd hand... to purchase brand new ones).
With F4.2 will come the GaN radar. with more range, more frequency agility, more modes.
After F4.2 a F4.3 is on the drawing board. Maybe with side array conformal radar.... if not it will be for F5 std.


The next Dassault aircarft, the SCAF (Système de Combat Aérien du Futur) will be in LM words a 6th gen.

The sole 5th gen fighter, according to own LM vocabulary, is the F22. 5th gen LM definition was : supercruise able (not the F35 case) + Stealth + F16 like agile (not the F35 case) + sensor fusion.
We can see that LM modify the criteria for 5th gen : it's now only a marketing speech.
 

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