Know Your 'Rafale'

MonaLazy

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I think that we will have a much better value to consider a merge of AMCA and FCAS without german.
I think your view may be coming true!


Two fighters, one engine
The engine developed for the AMCA will likely have much in common with the future propulsion plant of the European sixth-generation FCAS fighter, for which SAFRAN is the tri-national (Spain, France and Germany) project leader of that development pillar.

The signing of the contract could mean that India would finance part of the engine project for the future FCAS, lowering the costs of the program for the Europeans partners, or at least for the French side.
 

Super Flanker

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I think your view may be coming true!

Than this could potentially be a very good news. Imagine AMCA having a 125 KN engine which will be used as a powerplant for a next generation fighter program like FCAS!

France and india should increase their co-operation in more fields like Aerospace Sector. Très bien!
 

Super Flanker

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Is true that in India, we Manufacture the Pylons of Rafale? If true than who Manufactures pylons of Rafale in India?
 

Super Flanker

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we manufacture t/r modules of rbe2 aesa radar in India BEL does them, pylons are much less sophisticated items
Did We Manufacture T/R modules of RBE2 AESA Radar only for the 36 batch of Rafales which india had ordered or are we like a global supply chain for it?
 

Blademaster

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GoI better order 90 more of these or this is the most useless purchase in the last 20 years. 36 birds of one type is not gonna do any good. Not all of them would be flying or available at any given moment. In fact on its very best day, IAF would only be able to fly about 24-26 birds at one time. But keep in mind you have to rotate each shift to have a 24 hour continuous coverage so that means 8 birds in the air while the rest are being replenished and restocked and being maintained for the next sortie. That means you can only cover about 1/4 of the air sector against China or 1/3 of the sector against Pakistan. It is not enough to make any meaningful difference.
 

assassin162

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Though Rafales are as pricey as every other French product, are very kuch required in immediate term, but their value for India lies only if any new order is delivered within next 5-6 years and delivery starts within 2 years.
Any new order of 36 to 72 would be great combined with 26 of the navy.
 

omaebakabaka

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Though Rafales as pricey as every other French product, but their value for India lies only if any new order is delivered within next 5-6 years and delivery starts within 2 years.
Any new order of 36 to 72 would be great combined with 26 of the navy.
Probably 6 sqds for AF and 2 for IN would be good number
 

assassin162

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Probably 6 sqds for AF and 2 for IN would be good number
Not much required for navy as that would cut into TEDBF, also we are not going aggressively for aircraft carriers as well.
Though I think Thanjavur based Brahmos enabled Sukhois can be great additions in navy if transferred. Can be used as offshore assets for the navy, maritime protection.
 

omaebakabaka

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Not much required for navy as that would cut into TEDBF, also we are not going aggressively for aircraft carriers as well.
Though I think Thanjavur based Brahmos enabled Sukhois can be great additions in navy if transferred. Can be used as offshore assets for the navy, maritime protection.
If IAC-1 allows they should get it even if tedbf is in pipeline.....i would error on side of caution till our own gets some combat or ops time
 

sorcerer

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India pitches with France to become Rafale maintenance hub
Sidhant Sibal

2 minutes


India has pitched with France to become a hub for maintenance, repair, and overhaul (MRO) for Rafale fighter jets.
This comes even as last month Indonesia entered into a deal with France to buy 42 Rafale Jets and UAE signed a deal to buy 80 of the fighter jets In December 2021.

 

MonaLazy

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Definitely among the reasons for French on-boarding us onto their next gen engine program


FCAS warplane program stalls, as Dassault and Airbus fail to reach key industry deal


STUTTGART, Germany – One of Europe’s key weapon developments has stalled as the prime contractors have failed to reach agreement on the path forward, a top industry official said Friday.

The trinational Future Combat Air System (FCAS) program — intended to provide a swath of new military capabilities to France, Germany, and Spain by 2040 – has yet to enter its research-and-development phase, and risks falling behind schedule if the industry partners cannot compromise on key workshare allowances.

Two of the three prime contractors, Airbus and Dassault, haven’t reached a deal to launch the R&D-related Phase 1B that would lead to a prototype fighter jet by 2027, said Dassault CEO Eric Trappier in a Friday earnings meeting.

“We have done everything possible to sign with Airbus, and I’m waiting for Airbus’ signature,” he said. “The problem is on the other side of the Rhine.”

The Phase 1B contract has been prepared by the French military procurement agency Direction générale de l’armement (DGA), “and we are waiting for Airbus to sign… which is not the case right now,” Trappier said. Dassault is leading France’s industry participation in the FCAS program, while Airbus represents Germany and Indra represents Spain. Indra, who leads Spain’s industry participation in the FCAS program, declined to comment on Friday.

The negotiations, which have dragged on for months now, risk bringing the program to a complete standstill. “There is a moment where we say ‘yes,’ or we say ‘no,’” Trappier continued. “In my opinion, this has gone on a bit too long.”

Per Trappier, the dispute rests on Dassault’s role as the lead for the Next-Generation Fighter element. The program is separated into seven technology “pillars,” each of which is led by a specific company, with subcontractors contributing as well. Dassault is responsible for the new fighter jet, while Airbus leads the “loyal wingman” remote-carrier drone design, along with new cloud capabilities and stealth technologies. Indra leads the sensor systems pillar, while Safran is building a new jet engine for the fighter.

“Dassault should be the leader and the main contractor” for the fighter jet, Trappier said. “Additional requests were introduced to support this program; I said that there was a red line not to be crossed.”

According to Airbus, the kerfuffle boils down to fairness.

“We have managed months ago to find fair and balanced agreements on all 6 other pillars, where even under a defined leadership the competence and capacities of each partner are respected and can participate in an equitable manner,” a spokesman told Defense News. “Airbus has made several proposals to converge also on the Next Generation Fighter (NGF) and we are supporting any solution which will respect both the skills of each partner and the lead role of Dassault Aviation, leading to a fair agreement. We are confident that a resolution can be achieved if the rules of the cooperation agreed by the nations are respected in the NGF, as it is the case on other pillars.”

The program’s stakeholders have long awaited this industry contract. The German, French, and Spanish defense ministers reached their own trinational agreement last summer, which formalized the nations’ funding commitments through Phase 1B and 2, culminating in an initial prototype by 2027. In an Aug. 31 tweet lauding the deal, the German Defense Ministry pointedly said: “Now it’s industry’s turn – come to an agreement.”

The ongoing delay risks pushing back the delivery schedule for the new fighter jet. Meanwhile, Dassault engineers who were due to work on the demonstrator phase have been redeployed elsewhere in the company, Trappier said. They will return to the FCAS program if and when the contract is signed.

“I know they are eager to design an NGF demonstrator,” he said.

The trinational program isn’t the only source of tension between France and Germany at the moment. Reports have emerged that Berlin is once again considering buying U.S.-made F-35 Joint Strike Fighters as it phases out its aging Tornado fleet, and new Chancellor Olaf Scholz recently announced plans for Germany to invest 100 billion euro (U.S. $110 billion) into its defense.

Trappier, who is also the current president of the French Aerospace Industries Association (GIFAS), said Friday that he is “convinced” Germany will choose the F-35, as it had previously desired. He claimed the Germans are being pressured by the U.S. to use F-35s for their nuclear mission, even as Berlin pays lip service to the need to “Buy European.”

“We will see with our number-one partner, which is Germany, whether the first decision they make [after investing 100 billion euros] is to sign the FCAS contract, or to buy the F-35,” he said.

 

BON PLAN

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Though Rafales are as pricey as every other French product, are very kuch required in immediate term, but their value for India lies only if any new order is delivered within next 5-6 years and delivery starts within 2 years.
Any new order of 36 to 72 would be great combined with 26 of the navy.
No delivery possible before 3 years : it's the lead time of some main components....
And France can't no more give some of its slots, because we are already late on délivery according to our white book, and 24 2nd hand Rafale sold to Greece and Croatia has to be replace asap. The Ukrainian war don't leave us flexibility.
 

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