Vamsi
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I know they won't, but we should try to get it some howVamsi,
GE will never give that core data away. That's proprietary info and IPR. India has to go the hard way full speed.
I know they won't, but we should try to get it some howVamsi,
GE will never give that core data away. That's proprietary info and IPR. India has to go the hard way full speed.
IIRC as per last aero show slides - it seems productionising what is now lab grown crystal blades is an issueKaveri Dry Engine is Original Kaveri minus AB, that's it, it will prove the core of the Kaveri engine,
Why do we need american blade composition when our own DMS4 is slightly better than their Rene N6?
Did you even read what I have said earlier, I will repeat again, real carefully now "We should try to replace American HPT in F414 with Indigenous HPT, not reverse engineer it, & To replace it we need F414 core data",& if successful our F414 can run on indigenous HPT, so we will be sanction free. No where I said we should reverse engineer F414 core & back port it to Kaveri.
F414 is screwdrivergiri, we will only be doing SKD level assembly now & in future we might do CKD, that's it...this will create manpower & skillsets ONLY for assembly, not for core manufacturing
You call SKD assembly of F414 as gold, lolbut no one had that kind of vision whatever we are getting as a 414 deal is gold for India.
Dei, how many times I have to say this??People saying core data… we will not get any even if we get this will not make us sanction proof..
the core data will require machining data..
Machining data will require the WHY data..
performance data wont do jack shot … and then why to stop at HPT why not replace combustor, HPC, Fan .. I never said reverse engineer because I am telling even if we reverse engineer for Jet Engines that will not provide us any long term results..Dei, how many I have to say this??
I never said we should reverse engineer their core, hence we don't need their manufacturing "Know-why"
I said we should try to replace F414s HPT with Indigenous HPT, & for that to happen, we need performance data of their HPT, combustor, HPC, Fan
because it will help us to validate our own indigenous DMS4 HPT, & its the most important of allWhat's the focus on HPT
If we are importing 100s of other components from outside, then why did you say F414 is some sort of gold for India??there are 100s of other components that will need to be sourced from outside we can’t manufacture them in house also..
a jet engine has thousands of parts and even GE source it from many nations and entities..because it will help us to validate our own indigenous DMS4 HPT, & its the most important of all
If we are importing 100s of other components from outside, then why did you say F414 is some sort of gold for India??
SKD assembly will give new technologies and skill sets, Lola jet engine has thousands of parts and even GE source it from many nations and entities..
This deal is gold because we are doing 80% by value deal, this will set up a modern manufacturing line that will bring new technologies and skill sets.
not assembling and also better than nothing we currently have. Kaveri once certified needs to be produce right. Do you think manufacturing line and processes can be built up in a night?SKD assembly will give new technologies and skill sets, Lol
They won't give it to you. That's what we are trying to say. Hence, we need to do it our own way.Dei, how many times I have to say this??
I never said we should reverse engineer their core, hence we don't need their manufacturing "Know-why"
I said we should try to replace F414s HPT with Indigenous HPT, & for that to happen, we need performance data of their HPT, combustor, HPC, Fan
Even he said changes in airframe has to be made in aircraft for Kaveriat 13:31 in the below video, he is claiming that there are plans to use 2 Kaveri engines on a twin engined fighter
Grp Captain VN Jha says " We have got the alternative plans going on, in which 2 Kaveri engines will be used on twin engine aircraft, that concept is right now going on. I can't tell you how much we have progressed,but that thought is there, should the GE engine being denied, IAF, HAL & ADA are ready with alternative plans to use two kaveri engines"
These are not at all the core(I mean the beating heart) of jet engine technology. So in a way it us understandable that US/GE chose to share these. But if India asked for even these things in the ToT, I think we do not have inhouse ability to develop these/or manufacture them in a scale outside of laboratory. And do note the many machining and tooling stuff. Manufacturing is an altogether different ball game than development in lab. We learned it the hard way in Tejas LSP - IOC - FOC - SP series. Now something as complex as an engine will be an even daunting task. Atleast for the above machining and tooling stuff, I'm expecting 10-15 years for us to reach a low rate manufacturing level without compromising on quality. That is if we go full steam persistent with Dry-Kaveri - Kaveri with Afterburner prototypes, testing on Ghatak UCAV, then moving on to a twin engine fighter for testing.From The Hindu article. Any substance to it ?View attachment 211823
Most of the mfg technologies mentioned in the article , except for PMC & CMC , already exists in HAL Koraput. We've been mfg the Al-31 series almost indigenously out there for more than a decade . Moreover if they're sharing technology for casting & machining SCBs & other hot parts as well as forging power metallurgy discs for turbines as well as PMC & CMC castings as mentioned in the article ( which I very much doubt ) , that's akin to almost 100% ToT of not just know how but also know why .These are not at all the core(I mean the beating heart) of jet engine technology. So in a way it us understandable that US/GE chose to share these. But if India asked for even these things in the ToT, I think we do not have inhouse ability to develop these/or manufacture them in a scale outside of laboratory. And do note the many machining and tooling stuff. Manufacturing is an altogether different ball game than development in lab. We learned it the hard way in Tejas LSP - IOC - FOC - SP series. Now something as complex as an engine will be an even daunting task. Atleast for the above machining and tooling stuff, I'm expecting 10-15 years for us to reach a low rate manufacturing level without compromising on quality. That is if we go full steam persistent with Dry-Kaveri - Kaveri with Afterburner prototypes, testing on Ghatak UCAV, then moving on to a twin engine fighter for testing.
If atleast 50% of above mentioned stuff are shared under ToT, then we can leverage them to cut shot the testing to production time of Kaveri family. So I see this deal as a win.
Why you need performance data of the part of a foreign jet engine to validate your own component? If your product is truly indigenous, then the material is different, the processing is different, even the design concept is different, in other words, the targets of the most of the performance data are supposed to be different.because it will help us to validate our own indigenous DMS4 HPT, & its the most important of all
performance data is readily available most of the US research is done by universities its all in the published papers..Why you need performance data of the part of a foreign jet engine to validate your own component? If your product is truly indigenous, then the material is different, the processing is different, even the design concept is different, in other words, the targets of the most of the performance data are supposed to be different.
There is only one scenario will requires the performance data of a foreign engine to VALIDATE yours: you are reverse engineering it.