Kaveri Engine

[Kalkioftoday]

Any reason why no flying test bed has been built? Yes, it would cost money but it was known from the time Kaveri was initiated that it would need to be tested on a flying test bed. The usual story of absence of planning and commitment, I suppose.

IIRC A340's were 2 a penny a few years back. They were fitted with ~110kN engines. Buying 2 frames would have cost well below $100 million IIRC. Would be suitable to test any new 110kN engine for AMCA, too.

If india and Indians could make right decision at the right moment than india would've been a mega rich country by now

 

[Kalkioftoday]

If suppose kaveri engine got success, than this will used in civilian aeroplanes ? But India also need to secure this technology

In this age no-one use low bypass turbofans on civilian jets, they all use high bypass turbofan

 

[UnderFingy]

We don't have a flying testbed. So we use a Russian Il-76 testbed for it. You can thank our government for that. They have funded the entire Kaveri engine program with just $280 Million.

Is he referring to a testbed?

 

[Mantospace]

If india and Indians could make right decision at the right moment than india would've been a mega rich country by now

Angresss destroy this country.

 

[Kalkioftoday]

Angresss destroy this country.

China was in much worse situation than us but now look at them

 

[Kalkioftoday]

Is he referring to a testbed?

He is probably talking about land based engine testing complex here

 

[Kalkioftoday]

Is he referring to a testbed?

Rafale offsets: New fighter jet engine complex coming up, French assistance likely

The new engine complex is being set up as a national mission to develop a 110 kilo newton powered engine for the future class of advanced medium combat aircraft (AMCA) and could produce the engine within seven years of starting work.

economictimes.indiatimes.com

 

[no smoking]

Any reason why no flying test bed has been built? Yes, it would cost money but it was known from the time Kaveri was initiated that it would need to be tested on a flying test bed. The usual story of absence of planning and commitment, I suppose.

Money talks.
You can't buy or build an expensive flying test bed for just a single engine program. Without enough demand, most of time, this flying test bed has to stay on the ground and wasting money.

IIRC A340's were 2 a penny a few years back. They were fitted with ~110kN engines. Buying 2 frames would have cost well below $100 million IIRC. Would be suitable to test any new 110kN engine for AMCA, too.

If your son hasn't graduate from primary school, what is the point to buy the things for university.
You can't only think of purchase price, the maintenance and modification are also big hit.

 

[Abdus Salem killed]

Yes, other than a land based fixed testbed you must need a flying testbed to validate everything on that new engine. Not every country can build this kind of testbed, these testbeds are one of the engineering marvel of their own. I've heard once Kaveri had some vibration related issues, our fixed test bed couldn't even notice the problem but when we took the engine to germany and put it on a MTU's engine test rig and we found a lot of hidden issues of Kaveri. Also these platforms comes under startegic systems so not every country gonna sell us these state of the art testbed. We are soon gonna form a JV with Rolls Royce (most probably) for a 110 KN class engine and i'm pretty sure we are going to get our own flying testbed from that JV.
Pic 1: Rolls Royce engine testbed.
Pic 2: Kaveri on a russian IL76 testbed.
Pic 3: Prat and Whitney testbed

View attachment 117257

View attachment 117258

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Can you tell me how many countries have these flying testbeds

 

[Kalkioftoday]

Can you tell me how many countries have these flying testbeds

Very few countries have these flying testbeds. AFAIK there is US, UK, Russia, China. In those countries big aero engines corporation have their own testbeds. GE, Rolls Royce, P&W, Honeywell all have their own flying testbeds. Meanwhile all the Russian engine (military & civilian) are tested in Gromov Flight Research Institute where Kaveri was also tested. In china, like russia they also have a central engine testing facility, it's called CFTE (China Flight Test Establishment). Many civilian JVs like CFM international and IAE which includes countries like japan, germany and france uses GE or P&W's testbeds.

 

[Abdus Salem killed]

Very few countries have these flying testbeds. AFAIK there is US, UK, Russia, China. In those countries big aero engines corporation have their own testbeds. GE, Rolls Royce, P&W, Honeywell all have their own flying testbeds. Meanwhile all the Russian engine (military & civilian) are tested in Gromov Flight Research Institute where Kaveri was also tested. In china, like russia they also have a central engine testing facility, it's called CFTE (China Flight Test Establishment). Many civilian JVs like CFM international and IAE which includes countries like japan, germany and france uses GE or P&W's testbeds.

Is thier a link I can read

 

[Kalkioftoday]

Is thier a link I can read

Sorry. Don't have any link but you can search them on Google.

 

[Kalkioftoday]

Surprise Surprise.
Credit: Chetak, B R F

 

[Covfefe]

Surprise Surprise.
Credit: Chetak, B R F

View attachment 117470

Why are they bitter about these stuff? What is the way forward they offer? A black mamba who actually manufactures a jet engine? Who are the "good guys" according to these fellas? French who charged 40 million USD a unit for Mirage upgrade, or the Ruskies who have been fleecing the forces' budget with their substandard products having a low upfront cost and crappy maintenance and performance.Complaining like an entitled spoilt kid. Every transaction happens on mutually agreed terms. Hero fellas forced their family run supplier base for the Hero Honda JV for a span of more than two decades, who complained? This very Tata Motors ended a JV with Benz because they wouldn't let them put Tata branding on the vehicles. What's to stop them from divesting this one? Very isolationist stance they take. Sab band karke ghar mein baitho phir, no complaints.

 

[Spitfire9]

Surprise Surprise.
Credit: Chetak, B R F

View attachment 117470

Roll on a GTRE/SAFRAN JV Indian 110kN engine, then. I'm sure that SAFRAN are just itching to pass on their all knowhow for peanuts.

 

[Kalkioftoday]

Roll on a GTRE/SAFRAN JV Indian 110kN engine, then. I'm sure that SAFRAN are just itching to pass on their all knowhow for peanuts.

If it was for peanut than i'm preety sure Rools Royce wouldn't even bother to involve itself in our unique engine problem. AFAIK we don't need all the knowhows. And honestly speaking we don't even know if it'll be Rolls Royce or Safran, mine and your speculations means nothing. And also there was this part which i couldn't post because of screenshot limitation

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

Is he referring to a testbed?

No idea. I think he is talking about all the test facilities that we require for a serious jet engine program but currently don't have. Would include the high altitude ground test facility, flying test bed as well as various other facilities.

If suppose kaveri engine got success, than this will used in civilian aeroplanes ? But India also need to secure this technology

In this age no-one use low bypass turbofans on civilian jets, they all use high bypass turbofan

Based on Kabini core, a high bypass version could be created to power larger civilian airliners. But it would have to meet stringent air safety requirements of civilian engines as well as have a low enough fuel consumption and MTBO that doesn't break the bank for whatever airline operates it.
Most important of all, it would require an airliner to fly on. Does India have the appetite to create an airliner that large?

 

[Spitfire9]

If it was for peanut than i'm preety sure Rools Royce wouldn't even bother to involve itself in our unique engine problem. AFAIK we don't need all the knowhows. And honestly speaking we don't even know if it'll be Rolls Royce or Safran, mine and your speculations means nothing. And also there was this part which i couldn't post because of screenshot limitation

View attachment 117510

Good idea to have scrutiny by outsiders. It would be interesting to see that applied to Kaveri.

As an uninformed reader of news and reports about it, I am starting to get the impression that it is finally becoming realistic to see the project delivering a viable engine at some point. I read a lot of 'positive spin' about Kaveri coming from sources in the know (GTRE, I guess) 10 or so years ago which was just so much BS. That made me disinclined to believe reports of progress in the project but now I am inclined to believe that the finishing line is in sight. I hope that it can be reached sooner rather than later.

 

[Kalkioftoday]

No idea. I think he is talking about all the test facilities that we require for a serious jet engine program but currently don't have. Would include the high altitude ground test facility, flying test bed as well as various other facilities.



Based on Kabini core, a high bypass version could be created to power larger civilian airliners. But it would have to meet stringent air safety requirements of civilian engines as well as have a low enough fuel consumption and MTBO that doesn't break the bank for whatever airline operates it.
Most important of all, it would require an airliner to fly on. Does India have the appetite to create an airliner that large?

If we set up a ground based high altitude test facility than where should we put it? In Ladakh or any other place in Himalayan range?
Don't know about the civilian airlines but if we someday think of making our own cargo plane than we could use a indeginous high bypass turbofan for that matter

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

If we set up a ground based high altitude test facility than where should we put it? In Ladakh or any other place in Himalayan range?

As far as I understand it, high altitude test facility isn't necessarily meant to be situated at a higher altitude. It just has to simulate higher altitude conditions. So it needs to throw rarefied air at colder temperatures at the engine.
The facility should allow for testing of multiple altitude conditions. So maybe it tests the engine for 10,000 feet and 15,000 feet and 20,000 feet all at the same facility.
So basically, they should be able to build it at GTRE itself.