Kaveri Engine

[Okabe Rintarou]

Isn't the def expo in March ?? I want to visit it ,but don't know of civilian visitors will be allowed or not

Next year, they might allow. Last time they didn't due to Covid I think.

Meaning how far is kaveri

All previously known problems with the engine theoretically solved.
Currently the engine will be in ground tests to see if any new problems come up and to verify if old problems have actually been solved.
Ground tests to be continued until the engine reaches its targeted wet thrust of 81 kN.
Will be followed by flight tests and endurance testing for life of engine.
The engine will still not be used on Tejas, that ship sailed when Tejas became overweight (due to requirement changes by IAF). But at least we'll have our first working fighter jet engine.

 

[not so dravidian]

Meaning how far is kaveri

"Potentially" the screeching issue has been solved.

"However" only future trials will tell whether wet varient i.e, afterburner will be available

 

[not so dravidian]

strategic front DOT org/forums/threads/gtre-kaveri-engine.93/page-40
Damn. They really did solve it. With this the wet Kaveri engine should be ready (for further trials). As we speak, they might have installed the modified flame holder in the Kaveri and would be ground testing it. Any issues that emerge now will likely occur during flight tests on the testbed. Wonder what the life of engine and MTBO will be. Somebody needs to ask this question at GTRE stall in DefExpo next year.
@MonaLazy , you hearing this? We should post this good news on Kaveri thread.

Original post belongs to @Gautam Sarkar

@fire starter Bhai is a member there.

Maybe he can ask for permission

 

[UnderFingy]

Next year, they might allow. Last time they didn't due to Covid I think.



All previously known problems with the engine theoretically solved.
Currently the engine will be in ground tests to see if any new problems come up and to verify if old problems have actually been solved.
Ground tests to be continued until the engine reaches its targeted wet thrust of 81 kN.
Will be followed by flight tests and endurance testing for life of engine.
The engine will still not be used on Tejas, that ship sailed when Tejas became overweight (due to requirement changes by IAF). But at least we'll have our first working fighter jet engine.

Do we have to send it to Russia again for tests?

 

[rodeo]

Do we have to send it to Russia again for tests?

wait a minute.. Does India send its engines to Russia for testing? Have you not built the testing infrastructure before building the engine?

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

wait a minute.. Does India send its engines to Russia for testing? Have you not built the testing infrastructure before building the engine?

We don't have a flying testbed. So we use a Russian Il-76 testbed for it. You can thank our government for that. They have funded the entire Kaveri engine program with just $280 Million.

 

[rodeo]

We don't have a flying testbed. So we use a Russian Il-76 testbed for it. You can thank our government for that. They have funded the entire Kaveri engine program with just $280 Million.

Is using a flying testbed a common practice in engine development. I thought engines already have a waiting application to be tested on the air. TS1400 for instance will fly on T625(GOKBEY) helicopter in 2023. Doesn't Kaveri have an application?

 

[UnderFingy]

But if they succeed, that might convince the Government to issue funds for a flying testbed for future engine programs.

Is it because of lack of political will or is it expensive?

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

Is it because of lack of political will or is it expensive?

Because its expensive but if they had the political will, they could have sold the idea to voters and got it done regardless. ISRO human spaceflight is expensive program. But its easy to sell to the public and so the politicians approved it. If Kaveri succeeds, they might even find it in them to fund a flying testbed.

 

[Vamsi]

strategic front DOT org/forums/threads/gtre-kaveri-engine.93/page-40
Damn. They really did solve it. With this the wet Kaveri engine should be ready (for further trials). As we speak, they might have installed the modified flame holder in the Kaveri and would be ground testing it. Any issues that emerge now will likely occur during flight tests on the testbed. Wonder what the life of engine and MTBO will be. Somebody needs to ask this question at GTRE stall in DefExpo next year.
@MonaLazy , you hearing this? We should post this good news on Kaveri thread.

Few weeks back when I asked Saurav Jha about screech and rumble , he hinted that those issues were solved and said he will write a detailed article about it . But I'm very happy that they solved those issues. Atleast,It will give them valuable experience while designing the 110KN engine and I really hope PMO is looking after this project and I think they are, because after Mudi baba became PM, the info about this engine is very secretive. Also mods @ezsasa @Indx TechStyle pls move this Kaveri related discussion to Kaveri thread

 

[Vamsi]

Because its expensive but if they had the political will, they could have sold the idea to voters and got it done regardless. ISRO human spaceflight is expensive program. But its easy to sell to the public and so the politicians approved it. If Kaveri succeeds, they might even find it in them to fund a flying testbed.

Does GTRE have high altitude test facility (I don't mean Flying testbed) like ISRO did. ISRO tests their rocket engines in a High altitude test facility to mimic high altitude conditions. Do we have any similar kind of facility at GTRE?

 

[MonaLazy]

The engine will still not be used on Tejas, that ship sailed when Tejas became overweight (due to requirement changes by IAF). But at least we'll have our first working fighter jet engine.

If Tejas is overweight for 52kN/81kN Kaveri then how is it flying with a 49kN/79kN F404? If it can be certified in 5 years why can't it go into Mk1A production from 2026 as well as all Tejas Mk1/A coming in for MLU?

 

[Vamsi]

@MonaLazy @Okabe Rintarou and others Pls watch this video carefully at 21:40,
Saurav Jha says that there might be a demonstration flight of Kaveri for 75th Independence Anniversary. In my opinion if they are really gonna demonstrate it , then they gonna do it on Tejas , because its their only option, if not a MiG-29. I think rollout of Tejas-Mk2 & this demonstration flight are gonna happen at same time

 

[Vamsi]

@MonaLazy @Okabe Rintarou and others Pls watch this video carefully at 21:56 ,
Saurav Jha says that there might be a demonstration flight of Kaveri for 75th Independence Anniversary. In my opinion if they are really gonna demonstrate it , then they gonna do it on Tejas , because its their only option, if not a MiG-29. I think rollout of Tejas-Mk2 & this demonstration flight are gonna happen at same time

@firestarter bro can you confirm the same in Strategic Frontier forum whether GTRE intends to do a flight demonstration next year ?

 

[Vamsi]

If Tejas is overweight for 52kN/81kN Kaveri then how is it flying with a 49kN/79kN F404? If it can be certified in 5 years why can't it go into Mk1A production from 2026 as well as all Tejas Mk1/A coming in for MLU?

Our F404-IN20 is not 79 KN version ,I think it's around 85KN & Kaveri as of now stands at 81KN wet

 

[Spitfire9]

@MonaLazy @Okabe Rintarou and others Pls watch this video carefully at 21:56 ,
Saurav Jha says that there might be a demonstration flight of Kaveri for 75th Independence Anniversary. In my opinion if they are really gonna demonstrate it , then they gonna do it on Tejas , because its their only option, if not a MiG-29. I think rollout of Tejas-Mk2 & this demonstration flight are gonna happen at same time

I recall that they were going to fit a Kaveri to one of the early aircraft. I think it was announced about 2009 then sank without trace (along the lines of failure is silent but success is deafening). However if Kaveri could fit Tejas then I suppose it can fit Tejas now.

It would be good to see a Tejas being pushed along by a Kaveri.

 

[MonaLazy]

Our F404-IN20 is not 79 KN version ,I think it's around 85KN & Kaveri as of now stands at 81KN wet

I know I know. But the TDs flew with F404-F2J3 which was lower power

iterations of essentially the same engine- note increase in airflow and weight from -102/402 to RM12 to -IN20 & any of these can be plonked into Tejas- so why not Kaveri with all issues resolved? Just like they did with Elta 2052 which is getting replaced mid-production run with a matured Uttam Mk2 why not repeat same thing with engine?

 

[BON PLAN]

I called the guys. Told about it. They updated the design and they'll send a plaquette and a kilo of Turkish delights for saving them from the trouble. Address please?

Bon Plan,
23 route de Blois
41100 Vendôme
France.
(it's true. You can google it. A L shaped house with a swimming pool)

They can send it by one of their famous UCAV.

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

Is using a flying testbed a common practice in engine development. I thought engines already have a waiting application to be tested on the air. TS1400 for instance will fly on T625(GOKBEY) helicopter in 2023. Doesn't Kaveri have an application?

Its common for jet engines. TS1400 is a helicopter engine. The helo can simply hover few feet above ground during initial flight tests. Kaveri can't be tested that way, 'cause if it fails, there is no safety net, it will cause the plane to crash. Therefore a flying testbed.

Few weeks back when I asked Saurav Jha about screech and rumble , he hinted that those issues were solved and said he will write a detailed article about it . But I'm very happy that they solved those issues. Atleast,It will give them valuable experience while designing the 110KN engine and I really hope PMO is looking after this project and I think they are, because after Mudi baba became PM, the info about this engine is very secretive. Also mods @ezsasa @Indx TechStyle pls move this Kaveri related discussion to Kaveri thread

Looking forward to that article.

Does GTRE have high altitude test facility (I don't mean Flying testbed) like ISRO did. ISRO tests their rocket engines in a High altitude test facility to mimic high altitude conditions. Do we have any similar kind of facility at GTRE?

You mean like that ISRO facility at Mahendragiri? Nope. As of 2014, there was no such facility for GTRE.

@MonaLazy @Okabe Rintarou and others Pls watch this video carefully at 21:40,
Saurav Jha says that there might be a demonstration flight of Kaveri for 75th Independence Anniversary. In my opinion if they are really gonna demonstrate it , then they gonna do it on Tejas , because its their only option, if not a MiG-29. I think rollout of Tejas-Mk2 & this demonstration flight are gonna happen at same time

That will be amazing if it can happen. Though, they don't have enough time for that given the amount of testing required for it. Can it even happen on a MiG-29? Isn't RD-33 a bit larger? It wouldn't be a drop fit. Still, even if they can get it to fly successfully on a flying testbed by then, it will be great.

If Tejas is overweight for 52kN/81kN Kaveri then how is it flying with a 49kN/79kN F404? If it can be certified in 5 years why can't it go into Mk1A production from 2026 as well as all Tejas Mk1/A coming in for MLU?

I know I know. But the TDs flew with F404-F2J3 which was lower power

View attachment 117161

iterations of essentially the same engine- note increase in airflow and weight from -102/402 to RM12 to -IN20 & any of these can be plonked into Tejas- so why not Kaveri with all issues resolved? Just like they did with Elta 2052 which is getting replaced mid-production run with a matured Uttam Mk2 why not repeat same thing with engine?

Thrust to weight ratio is the problem. Kaveri was about 200kg heavier. We don't know how much they've managed to solve that issue by, but if we don't have the thrust to weight ratio problem solved, then its not going to happen. Another issue is specific fuel consumption. GE-404 has better pressure ratio and hence its fuel consumption is likely to be lower. But in any case, they should certify that engine on a Tejas LSP so that if uncle sam sanctions us, we have a backup indigenous option available.

 

[Covfefe]

Its common for jet engines. TS1400 is a helicopter engine. The helo can simply hover few feet above ground during initial flight tests. Kaveri can't be tested that way, 'cause if it fails, there is no safety net, it will cause the plane to crash. Therefore a flying testbed.


Looking forward to that article.


You mean like that ISRO facility at Mahendragiri? Nope. As of 2014, there was no such facility for GTRE.


That will be amazing if it can happen. Though, they don't have enough time for that given the amount of testing required for it. Can it even happen on a MiG-29? Isn't RD-33 a bit larger? It wouldn't be a drop fit. Still, even if they can get it to fly successfully on a flying testbed by then, it will be great.




Thrust to weight ratio is the problem. Kaveri was about 200kg heavier. We don't know how much they've managed to solve that issue by, but if we don't have the thrust to weight ratio problem solved, then its not going to happen. Another issue is specific fuel consumption. GE-404 has better pressure ratio and hence its fuel consumption is likely to be lower. But in any case, they should certify that engine on a Tejas LSP so that if uncle sam sanctions us, we have a backup indigenous option available.

Flame holding of Kaveri was sustained? Saurav, in one of his videos, had pointed that Kaveri had flamed out during one of the tests