Kaveri Engine

[Vamsi]

Hii guys. I'm new here. But I have been reading all your posts past one year. I want to ask one noob question regarding JV with RR. I want to know whether the following are possible or not ?

Is it possible that the new 110KN engine is based on the lessons we had learnt from Kaveri program. I mean new Intake Fan , Thermal Barrier Coatings , SC Blades etc and improving these tech with help of RR.

What I meant here is that RR is acting only as a design consultant and they may help us in improving the tech we already developed.

 

[NAMICA]

 

[no smoking]

Well, the French have helped us in the past in space technology.
An Indo-French collaboration on 5th/6th generation fighters is a win-win for both.

That is true, but on what terms?
Any collaboration between countries can be benefitable for both sides. But there is always different idea of the portion of contribution and right shared by each.
India and Russia's collaboration on T-50 was supposed to be win-win project too and Russian is the most generous one on the technologies sharing. But still, India felt she was treat unfairly. I am not saying India is wrong. If India thinks that Russia can't match her request of TOT, she probably won't find that French is anywhere better.

India is very strong in software and a lot of the work on developing modern combat aircraft is in writing software, be it the FCS or others.

Also I believe we have gained and learnt a lot on designing aircraft by designing the HTT40, IJT, LCA etc. We are in a position to offer positive inputs to the 5th/6th generation fighter design.

Well, that is not only judged by yourselves, but also the other side. There is always some positive inputs India can offer. But how valuable it is depends on the negotiation between both sides.

Collaboration on jet engine technology is indeed possible between India and France. A technologically independent India adds to a multi polar world. France supports a multi polar world.

France's support a multi polar world doesn't mean France will provide her key technologies cheaply.

You seem intent on running down our efforts.

Where did I run down your effort?

At least we are not stealing others technology. We respect other countries IPR.

Oh, really? India doesn't steal? Your country's name doesn't appear on the western newspapers as many times as China doesn't mean you are better:

Intellectual Property rights | India remains on U.S. Priority Watch List - The Hindu

India's score - 5.708
India (internationalpropertyrightsindex.org)

China's score - 6.045
China (internationalpropertyrightsindex.org)

 

[FalconZero]

That is true, but on what terms?
Any collaboration between countries can be benefitable for both sides. But there is always different idea of the portion of contribution and right shared by each.
India and Russia's collaboration on T-50 was supposed to be win-win project too and Russian is the most generous one on the technologies sharing. But still, India felt she was treat unfairly. I am not saying India is wrong. If India thinks that Russia can't match her request of TOT, she probably won't find that French is anywhere better.



Well, that is not only judged by yourselves, but also the other side. There is always some positive inputs India can offer. But how valuable it is depends on the negotiation between both sides.



France's support a multi polar world doesn't mean France will provide her key technologies cheaply.



Where did I run down your effort?



Oh, really? India doesn't steal? Your country's name doesn't appear on the western newspapers as many times as China doesn't mean you are better:

Intellectual Property rights | India remains on U.S. Priority Watch List - The Hindu

India's score - 5.708
India (internationalpropertyrightsindex.org)

China's score - 6.045
China (internationalpropertyrightsindex.org)

>indeternational property index
fuck off chink with your bs

And if you read the report you shared..the report said, but progress is undercut by factors including weak enforcement by courts and the police, lack of familiarity with investigative techniques and no centralised IP enforcement agency.

These problems are not limited to any particular case rather it's part of the developing country and every issue related to crimes have these matters even the report accepts that, unlike you chinks state is not obtaining state secrets and stealing them using reverse engineering, copying, even the likes of Russia have directly accused you subhuman maggots for that.

"Unauthorized copying of our equipment abroad is a huge problem. There have been 500 such cases over the past 17 years," said Yevgeny Livadny, Rostec's chief of intellectual property projects on Dec. 14. "China alone has copied aircraft engines, Sukhoi planes, deck jets, air defense systems, portable air defense missiles, and analogs of the Pantsir medium-range surface-to-air systems."

Russia up in arms over Chinese theft of military technology

Beijing's rise as a major armaments exporter is a double-edged sword for Moscow

asia.nikkei.com

Subhuman maggot chinks have copied engines, planes, deck jets, ADS, portable ADS, literally everything, from your chink j20 to likes of j15 which keep crashing. So, the last country in this world that should talk about these is you subhuman maggots. Now f**k off from here. Also, free tibet and fuck CCP.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

Russian is the most generous one on the technologies sharing.

Far from it. India's ToT were largely from Israel and France while most of Russian ones always ended up with just assembly despite promise of ToT for partnership in project. There are a tonnes to list up including in Su30 MKI. As T-50 too was going to follow same legacy, Indian government pulled out of it.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

Far from it. India's ToT were largely from Israel and France while most of Russian ones always ended up with just assembly despite promise of ToT for partnership in project. There are a tonnes to list up including in Su30 MKI. As T-50 too was going to follow same legacy, Indian government pulledill out of it.

No infact Russia is willing to share many Technologies but India is not interested. Russia is poor in electronics and jet engine Technologies. They don't produce the best stuff. This is the reason why India is more and more enclining towards west and US.

 

[no smoking]

>indeternational property index
fuck off chink with your bs

What a brave gentleman.

And if you read the report you shared..the report said, but progress is undercut by factors including weak enforcement by courts and the police, lack of familiarity with investigative techniques and no centralised IP enforcement agency.

But you are still in that list, sitting with China.

These problems are not limited to any particular case rather it's part of the developing country and every issue related to crimes have these matters even the report accepts that, unlike you chinks state is not obtaining state secrets and stealing them using reverse engineering, copying, even the likes of Russia have directly accused you subhuman maggots for that.

Of course, a thief laughs at another thief.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

No infact Russia is willing to share many Technologies but India is not interested.

The key line refers to Russian version of ToT which only acts as a looting machine and neutralises agreement by citing dumb clauses when cash has been received.

 

[johnq]

>indeternational property index
fuck off chink with your bs

And if you read the report you shared..the report said, but progress is undercut by factors including weak enforcement by courts and the police, lack of familiarity with investigative techniques and no centralised IP enforcement agency.

These problems are not limited to any particular case rather it's part of the developing country and every issue related to crimes have these matters even the report accepts that, unlike you chinks state is not obtaining state secrets and stealing them using reverse engineering, copying, even the likes of Russia have directly accused you subhuman maggots for that.

"Unauthorized copying of our equipment abroad is a huge problem. There have been 500 such cases over the past 17 years," said Yevgeny Livadny, Rostec's chief of intellectual property projects on Dec. 14. "China alone has copied aircraft engines, Sukhoi planes, deck jets, air defense systems, portable air defense missiles, and analogs of the Pantsir medium-range surface-to-air systems."

Russia up in arms over Chinese theft of military technology

Beijing's rise as a major armaments exporter is a double-edged sword for Moscow

asia.nikkei.com

Subhuman maggot chinks have copied engines, planes, deck jets, ADS, portable ADS, literally everything, from your chink j20 to likes of j15 which keep crashing. So, the last country in this world that should talk about these is you subhuman maggots. Now f**k off from here. Also, free tibet and fuck CCP.

The difference is that Chinese are IP thieves as a matter of principal, and IP theft is supported by the Chinese Communist government. In fact many CCP members that post in these forums are stealing IP from the various countries (outside China) that they reside in, and are supported in these efforts by the Chinese Communist government. See this:
Massive Leak Shows Chinese Communist Party’s Foreign Reach
A major database leak reveals the incredible scope of the Chinese Communist Party's reach into foreign companies around the world— 1.95 million Chinese Communist Party members and 79,000 Party branches. It doesn't mean they're all spies, but it does show the ability of the CCP to engage in espionage activities and influence companies and governments around the world. Corporate espionage, the ongoing Australia China trade war, and many other issues are just a few examples of how the world is put at risk by the Chinese Communist Party. These Communist Party branches are in major Western companies like HSBC, Citibank, Ikea, Pfizer, Qualcomm, and Boeing.

In fact, China's entire technology sector (including space and weapons programs) are based on IP theft.

India's challenges lie in improving law enforcement, but the Indian government follows IP law, and is making changes that improve law enforcement, hence the improvement in the score. But China's score keeps getting worse as people find out more about the Chinese espionage program sponsored by the CCP government.

 

[Tridev123]

The Kaveri turbofan engine programme has become invisible to the public. No new investment announced.

There have been a few tantalising announcements promising technology cooperation with BAE, Snecma etc. This is like providing juicy starters to eat before the main meal course but unfortunately we are still waiting for the main meal. Literally starving.

There have been reports of significant progress in designing and fabricating Single Crystal alloy blades. Good. But where is the infrastructure for certification of the engine. Do we even have a Flying Test Bed. Have we considered buying a FTB from abroad. Maybe from Russia or the EU. Even if the Kaveri finally delivers consistent high thrust on land how do we assess its performance in high altitude conditions.

I hope we see at least an action plan for the future success of the Kaveri or its successor. It is too important an requirement to ignore it.

Let us establish facilities similar to the GTRE in a few IIT's. Let research take place in more institutions. Since Materials Science is the key to achieving high TET in the core, establish more centres to conduct research on specialised alloys. More number of teams working means better chances of success. Because each team may approach the problem in a different way.

There is the role played by the element Rhenium in increasing the performance of the blades in the core. Much higher TET is possible. This element is scarce and is associated with copper. South America's copper mines have some of the largest deposits of rhenium. But have we tried to explore for rhenium deposits in India. If yes, what was the result. If no, why not. Considering its strategic role.

 

[Suhaan]

 

[Spitfire9]

There have been reports of significant progress in designing and fabricating Single Crystal alloy blades. Good. But where is the infrastructure for certification of the engine. Do we even have a Flying Test Bed. Have we considered buying a FTB from abroad. Maybe from Russia or the EU. Even if the Kaveri finally delivers consistent high thrust on land how do we assess its performance in high altitude conditions.

I hope we see at least an action plan for the future success of the Kaveri or its successor. It is too important an requirement to ignore it.

Would C-17 conversion to a testbed be possible? Even if Kaveri comes to nothing immense experience would be gained.

 

[Blank]

Ghataks UCAV is supposed to use a kaveri derived engine. Wonder what's its status.

 

[Chinmoy]

Would C-17 conversion to a testbed be possible? Even if Kaveri comes to nothing immense experience would be gained.

DRDO already proposed for a A320 as its flying test bed.

 

[Chinmoy]

Ghataks UCAV is supposed to use a kaveri derived engine. Wonder what's its status.

It would be showcased in AI21.

 

[Vaibhavseafarer]

Seems like it's not dead.

 

[Blank]

Will the 'new' Kaveri-derived engine work well for Ghatak? Some people are saying its still on the heavier side? Will it hamper?

 

[Karthi]

Kaveri Derivate Engine with an After Burning section will be able to generate 83kN Class of Thrust when the Dry section is certified by 2024. Kaveri Derivate Engine can generate a 47kN class of Thrust but will be cleared only for UCAV Program and later possibly for AJT Program.

Information coming out of Aero India 2021, has confirmed that the Maximum weight mentioned in the Kaveri Derivate brochure of 1180kg includes it’s After Burning section. GTRE has roped in Dassault Systèmes a French software corporation for helping in 3D Design, Modeling and Engineering Software expertise for the development of the Kaveri Derivate Engine.

 

[Spitfire9]

Kaveri Derivate Engine with an After Burning section will be able to generate 83kN Class of Thrust when the Dry section is certified by 2024.

Can someone explain to me the purpose of paying - presumably a large amount - to a foreign company to complete development an engine for which there is no application? The engine has insufficient thrust for Mk1A, MWF, TEDBF or AMCA.

 

[Lonewolf]

Can someone explain to me the purpose of paying - presumably a large amount - to a foreign company to complete development an engine for which there is no application? The engine has insufficient thrust for Mk1A, MWF, TEDBF or AMCA.

To save the money on next project which we might take up with rr , and these are part of offset clause , it can be used in ghatak ucav