Kaveri Engine

[Spitfire9]

To save the money on next project which we might take up with rr , and these are part of offset clause , it can be used in ghatak ucav

Better be a deal where GTRE (or whoever) learns something useful then.

 

[no smoking]

Can someone explain to me the purpose of paying - presumably a large amount - to a foreign company to complete development an engine for which there is no application? The engine has insufficient thrust for Mk1A, MWF, TEDBF or AMCA.

For budget war. When your boss is not confident enough on your capability and project proposed, you better find a reputable partner to back you up.

 

[Spitfire9]

For budget war. When your boss is not confident enough on your capability and project proposed, you better find a reputable partner to back you up.

What have Safran actually done for the money paid/offset? IIRC when attempts to develop Kaveri as a fighter engine were abandoned around 2014 it sounded like the goal of producing a non-afterburning version was not beyond GTRE. Did that prove not to be the case? I think I have read that there was a vibration problem that needed to be solved. Perhaps a solution eluded GTRE? Perhaps there were actually several problems that defied solution?

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

What have Safran actually done for the money paid/offset? IIRC when attempts to develop Kaveri as a fighter engine were abandoned around 2014 it sounded like the goal of producing a non-afterburning version was not beyond GTRE. Did that prove not to be the case? I think I have read that there was a vibration problem that needed to be solved. Perhaps a solution eluded GTRE? Perhaps there were actually several problems that defied solution?

The vibration problem you are talking about is fan flutter. That has already been solved as seen in this Aero India 2021 where they showcased a new fan design with wide chord blades. The other issue with reheat oscillations is where I believe they were expecting some help. But UCAV engines don't need reheat. Kaveri sans reheat will now be used for powering the stealth UCAV.

 

[Spitfire9]

Thanks Okabe. It sounds like dry thrust problems have been solved. Is the engine ready for production or are more tests required first?

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

Thanks Okabe. It sounds like dry thrust problems have been solved. Is the engine ready for production or are more tests required first?

I vaguely remember someone in Aero India saying the engine will be headed to Gromov flying testbed. Production is still a few years away.

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

The dry variant is current headed to Russia for testing in FTB. Certification of dry variant will be completed by 2024.

After than we can expect LSP to begin for powering Ghatak UCAV.

Also, once dry variant is proved I expect DRDO to perform some test by integrating with a LSP variant of Tejas MK1.

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

Also, once dry variant is proved I expect DRDO to perform some test by integrating with a LSP variant of Tejas MK1.

Without reheat? Why?

 

[Spitfire9]

The dry variant is current headed to Russia for testing in FTB. Certification of dry variant will be completed by 2024.

After than we can expect LSP to begin for powering Ghatak UCAV.

Also, once dry variant is proved I expect DRDO to perform some test by integrating with a LSP variant of Tejas MK1.

Without reheat? Why?

I recall reading in 2009 it was announced that a Kaveri engine was to be installed in one of the prototypes / LSP's by the end of that year. Then it all went quiet and I never heard more about it. Very much par for the course with anything to do with Tejas.

But... if some of rhe installation work was done, it could still be used for subsonic engine tests (perhaps supersonic in a dive). An Indian FTB would be very useful, would it not?

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

I recall reading in 2009 it was announced that a Kaveri engine was to be installed in one of the prototypes / LSP's by the end of that year. Then it all went quiet and I never heard more about it. Very much par for the course with anything to do with Tejas.

But... if some of rhe installation work was done, it could still be used for subsonic engine tests (perhaps supersonic in a dive). An Indian FTB would be very useful, would it not?

Using a single engine jet as an FTB is a brilliant idea. When the engine being tested stops working in mid-air, the pilot can simply eject, hop on a new FTB and fly away. Saves time.

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

Without reheat? Why?

Don't know Dry versine or A/B version. But plans to integrate Kaveri with Tejas protype after succesful flight test in Russia do exists, as revealed in interview of Lady DRDO scientist.


Listen from 4:40

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

Don't know Dry versine or A/B version. But plans to integrate Kaveri with Tejas protype after succesful flight test in Russia do exists, as revealed in interview of Lady DRDO scientist.


Listen from 4:40

She said they are looking for collaboration to achieve the last mile in terms of technology after which they will fit it into the LCA and carry out trials. Its a very subjective statement. She didn't say it will happen right after the FTB stage is completed. Think about it. Kaveri, even after FTB will be a largely unproven engine. We won't just put it onto a single engine fighter right away.

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

I agree. The correct testing of Tejas order should be Gromov IL-76 Flying test bed< Mig 29 < Tejas.
However, due to the inability of IAF to spare any existing Mig 29, or lack of funds from GTRE not allowing them to buy a used Mig 29, leaves them with no option than to integrate Kaveri with Tejas after succesful completion of flight test from Gromov.

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

I agree. The correct testing of Tejas order should be Gromov IL-76 Flying test bed< Mig 29 < Tejas.
However, due to the inability of IAF to spare any existing Mig 29, or lack of funds from GTRE not allowing them to buy a used Mig 29, leaves them with no option than to integrate Kaveri with Tejas after succesful completion of flight test from Gromov.

Its way too risky. And for what? Kaveri still doesn't have the requisite thrust level to power Tejas. Its better to start working on a new engine for AMCA. Kaveri dry version should be enough to power drones for now. That way, Kaveri will be more than just a TD. Our sole focus now should be on achieving higher TET and pressure ratios with a new engine design. Also hope they convert one of the AMCA or TEDBF TD to an FTB. This they can achieve in next ten years and use it to test the successor to Kaveri.

 

[no smoking]

What have Safran actually done for the money paid/offset? IIRC when attempts to develop Kaveri as a fighter engine were abandoned around 2014 it sounded like the goal of producing a non-afterburning version was not beyond GTRE. Did that prove not to be the case? I think I have read that there was a vibration problem that needed to be solved. Perhaps a solution eluded GTRE? Perhaps there were actually several problems that defied solution?

Honestly, no one knows. Indian scientists have a very good tradition of understating the difficulties they are facing. According to WIKI, the total testing hours of Kaveri so far is 2200. However, a modern jet engine generally requires >10,000 hours for testing. So, it is very possible there will be more problems discovered.

 

[Cruise missile]

Honestly, no one knows. Indian scientists have a very good tradition of understating the difficulties they are facing. According to WIKI, the total testing hours of Kaveri so far is 2200. However, a modern jet engine generally requires >10,000 hours for testing. So, it is very possible there will be more problems discovered.

Problems were discovered even before so why to test further.

 

[Lonewolf]

Anyone know why we are not interested in collaboration with japan , xf 9 is better than most engines

 

[Haldilal]

Anyone know why we are not interested in collaboration with japan , xf 9 is better than most engines

Ya'll Nibbiars Now No smoking Nibba will come and will tell again how it's just a Paper engine. Some just don't take it.

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

Anyone know why we are not interested in collaboration with japan , xf 9 is better than most engines

Maybe 'cause Japan has a pacifist export control on weapons tech. Shinzo Abe was trying to dismantle that, but not sure Yoshihide Suga will pursue the same thing.

 

[Spitfire9]

Using a single engine jet as an FTB is a brilliant idea. When the engine being tested stops working in mid-air, the pilot can simply eject, hop on a new FTB and fly away. Saves time.

Agreed, would be exciting, wouldn't it? Sadly I was not thinking of that. I was not thinking along the lines of installing Kaveri in Tejas to test IF it worked but to see HOW it worked in Tejas. Lots of data waiting to be gathered which could be useful.