Kaveri Engine

[johnq]

Over 200 Chinese version Su-27 are flying with WS-10 every day. Now they are being fitted into J-10, J-20. But, don't worry, they are not true. It is just a delusion of the whole world.

That is the spirit you will need.



Oh, yes, Americans are spending massive political resources to persuade and threaten her allies not to use this inferior product that no one wants to use.

Pakistani JF-17s still use a Russian engine because Chinese engines suck.
And the same goes for all operational Chinese fighters. The first female J-10 pilot died a horrible death when her J-10 engine failed and she crashed and burned.

Many people who believe Chinese propaganda about PLAAF shiny toys will be shocked if they found out how crappy Chinese engine reliability is in reality. Even their maintenance of Russian engines is so poor that their J-10s fall out of the sky, due to which they had to cut flight training and replace it with simulator training. It's easy to fly your fighters for their propaganda photo sessions, or post their pictures sitting on the airfield (although many of those are decoys); much harder when you have to fly several sorties in wartime, with your engines failing due to poor reliability, poor maintenance and cold weather. Chinese fighters will crash left and right when they are forced to fly several sorties for long durations in wartime.

On top of the crappy quality of Chinese 5g, the big reason for everybody banning it is because the evil Chinese Communist Party government spies on all 5g users and steals their data for criminal activities.

 

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

Over 200 Chinese version Su-27 are flying with WS-10 every day. Now they are being fitted into J-10, J-20. But, don't worry, they are not true. It is just a delusion of the whole world.

That is the spirit you will need.



Oh, yes, Americans are spending massive political resources to persuade and threaten her allies not to use this inferior product that no one wants to use.

1. WS10 is a failed engine that no one uses. Not a single piece of data on the engine’s performance is peer reviewed and available. Not a single Chinese jet with a WS10 has ever participated in any international Air Force shows. No data, no peer review, no competitive performance means WS10 is a dud.

2. 5G is no biggie. It is just a layering of technology, a framework.It was just that the CCP put the PLA backed huawei slaves to do it first, of course stealing most of the tech from US companies through the rogue thousand talents program. Other countries are behind as pace of innovation and testing is slower. But that does not me we would just sign onto a inferior, quickly made service without adequate testing and publication of performance data.

3. CCP’s technology is like their cities - built fast to put up a light show with skyscrapers that are 25-30% vacant. Come rainy season, the top floors of the “iconic” Shanghai tower - the tallest building in China gets flooded from the 9th to the 60th floor. Have you heard of any skyscrapers in the world flooding like this? This is what CCP tech is all about - quickly built, unsafe, all show and no substance.

Video shows Shanghai Tower spring massive leak | Taiwan News | 2020-07-09 18:30:00

'Rain,' 'waterfalls' spotted inside Shanghai Tower | 2020-07-09 18:30:00

www.taiwannews.com.tw

4. Let’s also not forget how the CCP’s PPE was rejected by so many countries due to fraud. Same with the virus vaccine that CCP claims to have developed. Again all fake. Leading Shanghai virologists took the first plane out of the country to escape to western countries, once they realized that the CCP would send them to labor camps, or worse shoot them (China is the #1 executor of capital punishments in the world, with executions greater than the sum of the rest of the top 10 put together).

so spare us all the smokescreen that the communists are very good at putting out to fool the world, and never ever quote CCP data on anything.

 

[johnq]

Breakthrough for Kaveri engine, Clears Audit for Aircraft Integration

According to information provided by DRDO in it’s Anual Report for 2017, Five Kaveri engine prototypes K5, K6, K7, K8, and K9 were tested for about 145 hours in total in 2017 during which...

defenceupdate.in

Breakthrough for Kaveri engine, Clears Audit for Aircraft Integration
According to information provided by DRDO in it’s Anual Report for 2017, Five Kaveri engine prototypes K5, K6, K7, K8, and K9 were tested for about 145 hours in total in 2017 during which some critical and several tests like a transient test from idle to max reheat conditions were carried out for the first time successfully .


The Kaveri project – which was abandoned in 2014 as it did not meet the power requirements of the Air Force – is being revived with French help for use on both the indigenous Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) and a new unmanned combat aerial vehicle (UCAV) project.


Under the terms of the partnership finalised late last year, Snecma is working to modify, certify and integrate the Kaveri on a Light Combat Aircraft airframe before 2020. A later phase in the partnership will involve modifications on the Kaveri for a twin configuration on India’s AMCA fifth generation fighter concept and an altered non-reheat version for the Ghatak UCAV. It is not clear if the Snecma partnership will stretch to the concept Manik mini-turbofan being developed for UAVs and cruise missiles. One of the Kaveri specimens was on display at the recent Aero India show.



According to the report submitted, Safran completes technical audit of Kaveri jet engine prototype in France
Report said that the engine had attained sufficient maturity to be integrated with an aircraft for limited envelope flight testing.


DRDO Chief Dr S Christopher in 2017 had said that LCA-Tejas will fly with Indo-French Kaveri engine by 2019 Aero India
Kaveri engine reportedly will be able to generate 88.9 kN to 99 kN of Thrust with afterburner .


It is also planned to use an upgraded version of Kaveri to meet the needs of the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA)


This implies that the Kaveri turbofan should be upgraded to generate 110-kN wet and 75-kN dry thrust. But then an engine of this capability will need to incorporate single crystal blade technology, integrated rotor disk and blades and super alloys of nickel and cobalt. Kaveri engine in its present form uses directionally solidified blade technology which is rather an old hat. The 20-tonne class AMCA designed for stealth features and super cruise capability is planned to be powered by two GTX Kaveri engines. Significantly, the Kaveri engine has been custom built to operate in the demanding Indian environment that ranges from the hot desert to the freezing mountain heights.


Kaveri Engine For SU-30MKI


AL-31F engines on Sukhoi-30MKI fighter jets will save India from the exorbitant amount of money which India needs to pay to Russia for Transfer of Technology license agreement for developing AL-31F engines in India and also to remove the problematic engine it self which keeps the operational availability of the entire Sukhoi-30MKI fleet lower than 65% in Indian air force.

 

[johnq]

HTFE-40: HAL Proposes New Jaguar Engine, Seeks funding from IAF – Indian Defence Research Wing

idrw.org

The dry Kaveri engine will be operational soon.

I suggest the IAF create a tough A-10 like close-air-support aircraft powered by 2 non-afterburning Kaveri engines to attack terrorists and PA on the border. This will also aid Indian soldiers by providing close air support for them on the border, especially against Pakistani artillery targeting them and civilians.

 

[SavageKing456]

Do we have any project of gas turbines which will power our destroyers,other naval units?

 

[shade]

Do we have any project of gas turbines which will power our destroyers,other naval units?

When the OG Kaveri flopped many years ago, this was the word basically, it would be repurposed into marine propulsion.

 

[SavageKing456]

When the OG Kaveri flopped many years ago, this was the word basically, it would be repurposed into marine propulsion.

Any progress on that?

 

[shade]

Any progress on that?

No new news about this it seems

I just googled, latest news is from July this year, says the engine has gone to Vishakhapatnam naval dockyard where it is undergoing testing.

Kaveri engine grounded, DRDO pins hopes on marine version - Indian Express

With the Kaveri engine project for the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) making little headway, DRDO has modified it into a marine version and has claimed to have reached 'self-reliance' in gas turbines for

archive.indianexpress.com

Pic from official DRDO listing.

Kaveri Marine Gas Turbine | Defence Research and Development Organisation - DRDO, Ministry of Defence, Government of India

Kaveri Marine Gas Turbine engine is a derivative of Kaveri engine developed for Naval ship propulsion. Gas turbine when used in the propulsion system of ship platform, offers significant operational advantages at battle field in terms of high acceleration rate, high speed, low preparation time...

www.drdo.gov.in

 

[SavageKing456]

I just googled, latest news is from July this year, says the engine has gone to Vishakhapatnam naval dockyard where it is undergoing testing.

Kaveri engine grounded, DRDO pins hopes on marine version - Indian Express

With the Kaveri engine project for the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) making little headway, DRDO has modified it into a marine version and has claimed to have reached 'self-reliance' in gas turbines for

archive.indianexpress.com

View attachment 70758

Pic from official DRDO listing.

Kaveri Marine Gas Turbine | Defence Research and Development Organisation - DRDO, Ministry of Defence, Government of India

Kaveri Marine Gas Turbine engine is a derivative of Kaveri engine developed for Naval ship propulsion. Gas turbine when used in the propulsion system of ship platform, offers significant operational advantages at battle field in terms of high acceleration rate, high speed, low preparation time...

www.drdo.gov.in

The article is of year 2008

 

[shade]

The article is of year 2008

sorry, will edit, brainfat :/

 

[SavageKing456]

Welp,lets hope deal for DRDO-RR JV engine collaboration is signed during upcoming UK PM's visit.
We seriously need this technology asap.

 

[BON PLAN]

When the OG Kaveri flopped many years ago, this was the word basically, it would be repurposed into marine propulsion.

I think it is the case.

 

[BON PLAN]

Welp,lets hope deal for DRDO-RR JV engine collaboration is signed during upcoming UK PM's visit.
We seriously need this technology asap.

You tried with US, with russian, with french, now with GB.... what a pity.
The problem is always the same : you want this high tech but are always reluctant to pay the right price. Because the ticket is huge ! it's the sum of 70 years of refinement and costly dev. You always undersestimate the real cost.

 

[Tridev123]

You tried with US, with russian, with french, now with GB.... what a pity.
The problem is always the same : you want this high tech but are always reluctant to pay the right price. Because the ticket is huge ! it's the sum of 70 years of refinement and costly dev. You always undersestimate the real cost.

I am in total agreement. If you are referring to the French (Snecma/Saffran) offer then some clarification is needed.
1.Does the French offer include sharing the hot core engine technology. Especially
material science part. There are reports that the Kabini core design is not optimised. Will the French help redesign Kabini for an > 90kn(wet thrust) output sharing the reqd materials knowledge.
If the offer is on these lines and if the Indian Government baulked at the technology transfer fee, then I would say we have been shortsighted. Obviously I hope the technology transfer fees are in a few billions of US dollars and not tens of billions.

2.On the other hand if the French offer includes only replacing the Kabini core with the Echo core and then making the Kaveri operational it is an deficient offer. You will not be helping us know about the materials needed for the hot core. Or the design technology. We learn nothing to add to our present knowledge. The cold section of the Kaveri is already developed. We are facing problems only w. r. to the hot section.

Sharing the technology will not create a competitor to potential future sales of jet engines as France has a technological lead of at least more than a decade. There will be more collaboration between us than competition.

 

[BON PLAN]

I am in total agreement. If you are referring to the French (Snecma/Saffran) offer then some clarification is needed.
1.Does the French offer include sharing the hot core engine technology. Especially
material science part. There are reports that the Kabini core design is not optimised. Will the French help redesign Kabini for an > 90kn(wet thrust) output sharing the reqd materials knowledge.
If the offer is on these lines and if the Indian Government baulked at the technology transfer fee, then I would say we have been shortsighted. Obviously I hope the technology transfer fees are in a few billions of US dollars and not tens of billions.

2.On the other hand if the French offer includes only replacing the Kabini core with the Echo core and then making the Kaveri operational it is an deficient offer. You will not be helping us know about the materials needed for the hot core. Or the design technology. We learn nothing to add to our present knowledge. The cold section of the Kaveri is already developed. We are facing problems only w. r. to the hot section.

Sharing the technology will not create a competitor to potential future sales of jet engines as France has a technological lead of at least more than a decade. There will be more collaboration between us than competition.

Safran probably proposed two approachs :
-A help to mature your own design with your own raw materials and process.
-The adaptation of a french hot core, may be difficult to produce in India easily (for exemple the single cristal blades are very dependant of the processing tools, very costly), and fit in with the indian cold part.

 

[SavageKing456]

Safran probably proposed two approachs :
-A help to mature your own design with your own raw materials and process.
-The adaptation of a french hot core, may be difficult to produce in India easily (for exemple the single cristal blades are very dependant of the processing tools, very costly), and fit in with the indian cold part.

How much time did French took,to develop their first turbofan engine,also did they took foreign assistance?

 

[BON PLAN]

How much time did French took,to develop their first turbofan engine,also did they took foreign assistance?

The first were studied with the decisiv assistance of german engineers pow. The first one ran in march 1948 (1T7 of thrust). but a direct derivative of german concepts.

 

[no smoking]

Obviously I hope the technology transfer fees are in a few billions of US dollars and not tens of billions.

Well, that sounds right if you ask the technology of M53.

2.On the other hand if the French offer includes only replacing the Kabini core with the Echo core and then making the Kaveri operational it is an deficient offer. You will not be helping us know about the materials needed for the hot core. Or the design technology. We learn nothing to add to our present knowledge. The cold section of the Kaveri is already developed. We are facing problems only w. r. to the hot section.

That is exactly where the most valuable part of technologies is.

Sharing the technology will not create a competitor to potential future sales of jet engines as France has a technological lead of at least more than a decade. There will be more collaboration between us than competition.

The same words said by Russian, Japanese, Korean and Chinese. The westerners love money but not stupid.

 

[johnq]

India's 3D Engine blade Printing Technique | Single crystal blade Issue solved?
Titanium 64, a premium choice for light structural components undergoing fatigue or corrosion Titanium 64 (also known as Ti64, TA6V, Ti6Al4V or Grade 5) has been used for 50 years in the advanced aerospace applications. It weighs roughly half as much as steel parts, but is far stronger. Thanks to the extremely high strength-to-weight ratio and resistances to fatigue, corrosion, creep, and fracture (at temperatures up to 380°C), Titanium 64 can make up a third of the dry weight of a jet engine. It is used for load-bearing and even fatigue/fracture-critical components (front bearing with airfoil-shaped vanes, compressor blades, some turbine components, airframes, fasteners, and discs).

 

[Tridev123]

Well, that sounds right if you ask the technology of M53.




That is exactly where the most valuable part of technologies is.



The same words said by Russian, Japanese, Korean and Chinese. The westerners love money but not stupid.

Well, the French have helped us in the past in space technology.
An Indo-French collaboration on 5th/6th generation fighters is a win-win for both.
India is very strong in software and a lot of the work on developing modern combat aircraft is in writing software, be it the FCS or others.

Also I believe we have gained and learnt a lot on designing aircraft by designing the HTT40, IJT, LCA etc. We are in a position to offer positive inputs to the 5th/6th generation fighter design.

Collaboration on jet engine technology is indeed possible between India and France. A technologically independent India adds to a multi polar world. France supports a multi polar world.

You seem intent on running down our efforts. At least we are not stealing others technology. We respect other countries IPR.