Kaveri Engine

[Vilander]

What I don't get is, if they had a Kaveri engine that was working fine in every way except after-burner, why didn't they just use it to create a whole fleet of subsonic aircraft? You could make a fleet of subsonic bombers carrying cruise missiles, a fleet of refuelling tankers, a fleet of AWACS and ELINT aircraft, a fleet of large tank carrier aircraft, etc all being powered by a non-afterburning Kaveri. And you could do it very cheaply by manufacturing the engines and aircraft in India in very large numbers. It would create hundreds of thousands of jobs, as well as a massive military industrial complex. You could even sell these aircraft to other countries for massive profits.

always wondered the same why no version with Kaveri ? May be it’s just a wait for it to mature further. Or it had critical deficiency that rendered it impossible.

 

[Dessert Storm]

always wondered the same why no version with Kaveri ? May be it’s just a wait for it to mature further. Or it had critical deficiency that rendered it impossible.

Both the engine, and the platform cannot be un-proven. Moreover, we don't have a flying testbed.

India needs a flying testbed to test its engines thoroughly , but nobody seems to be interested in it . Buying one or atleast leasing one is necessary for developing engines.

Penny wise pound foolish .

 

[Dessert Storm]

Turbofan engine efficiency.

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

somebody please educate me a bit, thrust of M88-2 is 50kN/75kN, F404 is 48.9kN/78.7kN and Kaveri is 52kN/81kN. but M88 and F404 is flying and Kaveri is cancelled for being underpowered. what am I missing?

F404 has around 90Kn. In Indian conditions it's around 85-87.

 

[no smoking]

always wondered the same why no version with Kaveri ? May be it’s just a wait for it to mature further. Or it had critical deficiency that rendered it impossible.

Because all these planes are much heavier than fighter jet and require longer cruising time, fuel efficiency.
In order to satisfy these, the engine need to have much higher thrust, then you will need a bigger bypass rate, higher airflow.

If we take AL-31FN vs D-30PK-2 as an example:

AL-31FN only gives 76KN (without afterburner) while D-30PK-2 produces 117.6 KN (without after burner). In order to reach such a thrust, the Bypass rate of the latter is 2.24:1 versus AL31's 0.56:1. Meanwhile the airflow is 270kg/s vs 112kg/s.

So, except majority of core, you have to re-design the whole thing. Basically, it will be a different class engine.

By the way, the French proposal of how to fix Kaveri is replacing the core, that may tell you how they think about the core of Kaveri.

 

[Assassin 2.0]

We are in quickly developing world, any country stops her R&D investment in certain sector for 10 years, her knowledge & skills will become obsolete, not to mention 70 years interuption

No R&D that's why they were leading industry in CMC? even Americans used to source CMC from Japan which is essential to increase thermal limitations of the aircraft.

the way, the French proposal of how to fix Kaveri is replacing the core, that may tell you how they think about the core of

French want to earn a buck nothing else. If they supply core they will get IP rights + billion $ worth contract.
India is spending more than billion $ on dry version of kaveri this tell more about core.
And French guy's are willing to complete kaveri engine as they previously said that it's near flight worthy but the issue is cost.

 

[johnq]

always wondered the same why no version with Kaveri ? May be it’s just a wait for it to mature further. Or it had critical deficiency that rendered it impossible.

There was a problem with engine screech earlier that has now been solved. The technology level of the current Kaveri is now good enough to design non-afterburning engines to power huge fleets of UAVs, UCAVs, subsonic bombers carrying cruise missiles, cruise missiles, refuelling tankers, AWACS and ELINT aircraft, large tank carrier aircraft, etc. India is about to become a defence powerhouse by cheaply manufacturing Indian military aircraft powered by Indian engines in very large numbers. It will create millions of jobs, as well as a massive military industrial complex that will benefit by selling aircraft with Indian engines to both Indian armed services as well as other countries.
The manufacturing costs of engines and aircraft in India will end up being lower than China, thus being an attractive alternative destination for countries wanting to move manufacturing out of China, after the Communist Chinese Party and PLA created the Covid-19 virus in a CCP PLA lab and infected the world with it.

 

[no smoking]

No R&D that's why they were leading industry in CMC? even Americans used to source CMC from Japan which is essential to increase thermal limitations of the aircraft.

Sorry, what is CMC? Composite material cover?
You still confused technology advancement and technology independence, especially in weapon program.
Just use your case, if Japan was really leading in CMC (which is not actually, but that is not the point here), will that be enough for Japan to build her own stealth jet? No, because there are too much key technologies she is relying on US.

If tomorrow both decides to cut their alliance, who do you think will have trouble to build her own jet? Japan or US?

French want to earn a buck nothing else. If they supply core they will get IP rights + billion $ worth contract.
India is spending more than billion $ on dry version of kaveri this tell more about core.

What is that logic? Because you spend billion $ on something, so it must be successful?
Do you have any idea how much is required for engine development? A billion? It is just a peanut.

And French guy's are willing to complete kaveri engine as they previously said that it's near flight worthy but the issue is cost.

Yes, the cost is replacing the core. It is just like a mechanic tells me that my car is fine, just need a new engine.

 

[johnq]

No R&D that's why they were leading industry in CMC? even Americans used to source CMC from Japan which is essential to increase thermal limitations of the aircraft.


French want to earn a buck nothing else. If they supply core they will get IP rights + billion $ worth contract.
India is spending more than billion $ on dry version of kaveri this tell more about core.
And French guy's are willing to complete kaveri engine as they previously said that it's near flight worthy but the issue is cost.

I am pretty sure that India will get to a successful dry version of Kaveri engine and other dry version engines on its own, from what I have been hearing. The French help is more for high thrust afterburning engines for high speed fighters.

Just producing/manufacturing large numbers of dry version Kaveri engines (and other dry version engines based on this technology) in India is sufficient to create a massive military industrial complex in India, because you can produce huge fleets of UAVs, UCAVs, subsonic bombers carrying cruise missiles, cruise missiles, refuelling tankers, AWACS and ELINT aircraft, large tank carrier aircraft, etc very cheaply (even more cheaply than China), and then sell them to Indian armed forces for less cost, and sell them to other countries for huge profits. This will make India into a defence powerhouse by cheaply manufacturing Indian military aircraft powered by Indian engines in very large numbers. It will create millions of jobs, as well as a massive military industrial complex that will benefit India by selling aircraft with Indian engines to both Indian armed services as well as other countries.

 

[Assassin 2.0]

Sorry, what is CMC? Composite material cover?
You still confused technology advancement and technology independence, especially in weapon program.
Just use your case, if Japan was really leading in CMC (which is not actually, but that is not the point here), will that be enough for Japan to build her own stealth jet? No, because there are too much key technologies she is relying on US.

Ceramic matrix composites in aircraft engines projected to double over five years, Stratview Research predicts

Ceramic matrix composite (CMC) use is up across the aerospace market, and among the fastest-growing trends in the global aviation industry. CMC material and component use in aircraft engines, specifically, is projected to double over the next five years, according to a new report from analysts...

www.sae.org

No it's not composite material cover it's totally a different thing. And still you made a assessment without even knowing what I'm talking about. This shows how biased you are.
Japanese are using this technology extensively in their new jet engine which is already churning out much more power than any Chinese engine.

What is that logic? Because you spend billion $ on something, so it must be successful?
Do you have any idea how much is required for engine development? A billion? It is just a peanut.

Cant you understand a thing or two? Government of india and GTRE are considering to use kaveri engine in ghatak aircraft and use it's dry version because it's stable that way and recently kaveri is going to be used on that aircraft.
Doesn't matter what you do you even have some inside information about the project do you have any source you are just a internet copy paste which don't even know anything but still make funny claims.
I bet if there was not a video of running kaveri engine then you would have claimed that it doesn't even existed.

Yes, the cost is replacing the core. It is just like a mechanic tells me that my car is fine, just need a new engine

That's why indian side rejected the offer as long as i remembered? And is working to use the same core for UAV.
By the way this was reported after the initial testing and new french offer is particularly for amca which will require 110KN and not for tejas which is now going to stick with GE ENGINE.
K-11 will be build by foreign coloration.

 

[Assassin 2.0]

Japanese are using this technology extensively in their new jet engine

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About Research Domains
耐環境性セラミックスコーティングの開発
JST HOME SM4I HOME Research Domains Top Development of Ceramic Matrix Composites
［Main Text］
About Research Domains
<A> Polymers and CFRP
<B> Heat Resistant Alloys and Intermetallic Compounds
<C> Development of Ceramic Matrix Composites
Ceramic Environmental Barrier Coatings
The Center of Excellence at JFCC
Development of Advanced Melt Infiltration for Ceramic Matrix Composites (CMC)
C46
Development of Oxide Ceramic Matrix Composites
C45
List of R&D Projects and Units
<D> Materials Integration(MI)
The Center of Excellence at JFCC
Ceramic Environmental Barrier Coatings
（C41・C42）

Concept and Approach
We are developing the following technologies and methods in order to maintain Environmental Barrier Coatings (EBC) structure and Interfacial Control Coating structure, and Mechanical Properties (damage tolerance) of lightweight ceramics composites, even after prolonged exposure in an environment containing oxygen / water vapor at CMC service temperature of 1400 °C.

1) Optimum material design of multilayered ceramics coating film with excellent heat, water vapor and oxygen barrier properties
2) Development of EBC Technology to realize optimal multilayered ceramics coating film
3) Development of coating technology on the SiC fiber surface which constitutes a substrate inside of the composites
4) Understanding of usage limit of EBC coating and demonstration of the world highest level of material properties

Research and Development
Development of Environmental Barrier Coatings (EBC) technology (C41)
Development of multilayered EBC technology / Environmental shielding design: AccomplishmentsJFCC
We have decided the EBC structure that makes it possible to use under severe high temperature environment which benchmark materials (practical stage materials) are difficult to apply, based on the mass transfer analysis in the EBC components.
We have also made it possible to estimate the amount of oxide ions and cations transferred through the grain boundaries of the EBC constituent layer under any "temperature and oxygen potential gradient".

Development of multilayered EBC technology / Double Electron Beam PVD method: AccomplishmentsJFCC

Example of Deposition by double electron beam PVD
We have established an element process to control the microstructure of complex oxide layer with high precision which is essential for the development of EBC performance.
For example, it has made it possible to form not only a dense structure which is vital for the gas shielding property, but also a pillar structure for imparting a graded composition and further thermal impact resistance.

Tie layered coating technology by CVD method: AccomplishmentTohoku University
We have succeeded in forming a coating film of a dense α-SiAlON layer using laser CVD method.

Tie layer coating technique by aerosol deposition method: AccomplishmentYokohama National University Faculty of Engineering
We have succeeded to form a dense layer of SiAlON as well as mullite on a lightweight ceramic substrate at room temperature by the aerosol deposition method.

Evaluation of applicability of coating material on actual equipment: AccomplishmentIHI

Implementation status of thermal cycle test
We have investigated the condition of the high temperature thermal cycle test using the burner rig equipment for the lightweight ceramics substrate and studied the jig structure, which made it possible to carry out 1000 times cycle test at about 1300 °C.
We have also obtained prospect of conducting the thermal cycle test at 1400 °C by improving the test specimen size and the testing machine.

Characterization of coating materials: AccomplishmentJUTEM

An exposure test equipment
under high temperature
humidity environment
We have designed and renovated an exposure test equipment under high temperature humidity environment for lightweight ceramics substrates with single phase constituent material of EBC multilayer film and multiphase laminate structure, and which made it possible to evaluate exposure in a humidified environment at 1400 °C.

EBC soundless evaluation and analysis: AccomplishmentNIMS

P, F: Test Load / u, δ: Load Displacement
L: Notch Length / c: Pre-crack Length /
h: Coating Thickness
We have devised a fracture toughness test for the interface of EBC multilayer film.
The interfacial fracture toughness is measured by applying this test to the existing EBC material which can be evaluated with a simple specimen using a general test apparatus without applying a load to a lightweight ceramic substrate with a weak interlaminar strength, which has helped demonstrated practicality. Furthermore, we are aiming to establish a test procedure in order to be accepted as a test that can become an industry standard.

Mechanical property evaluation of EBCTokyo Institute of Technology (TIT)
We have improved the nanoindentation test equipment and made it possible to conduct high temperature nanoindentation tests up to 600 °C for single phase components of EBC multilayer films. Furthermore, even in the nanoindentation test of high temperature (target 1000℃), we have clarified the technical problem on the required improvement for the equipment in order to measure the obtained data accurately.

Simulation of EBC fracture under mechanical and thermal loading: AccomplishmentThe University of Tokyo, Institute of Industrial Science, Center for Research on Innovative Simulation Software
In the process of preparing the EBC multiphase laminated film, it is necessary to design a structure which is exposed to a severe thermal cycle environment and does not cause crack development / propagation due to generated thermal stress and so on.
Therefore, we have developed an analysis system to predict the energy release rate of the multiphase laminate structure.

矢印
Development of Fiber Coating Materials (C42)
Development of fiber coating materials by CVD method: AccomplishmentYokohama National University Graduate School of Environment and Information Sciences
Yb silicate coating applied
on SiC fiber bundle by CVD method
We have established a technology to form an Yb silicate layer using laser CVD method. We have also proposed and proved the technique to control the microstructure of the Yb silicate layer as well as the crack propagation path, and the technique to form SiC layer without using Si chloride, collaborating with JAXA, IHI and JFCC.

Evaluation of applicability of fiber coatingIHI
The Melt Infiltration furnace produced by IHI
We have designed and produced a melt infiltration furnace capable of manufacturing a dense lightweight ceramic substrate, and investigated impregnation treatment conditions that will not damage fibers, and then we have made prototype ceramic substrate and evaluated impregnating property. In addition to this, we have selected a method of nondestructive inspection that can detect damage introduced to the ceramic substrate while using it, and we are working to optimize inspection conditions.

Design and microstructure analysis of fiber coating materialJFCC
We have clarified the thermochemical stability of Yb silicate based on the thermodynamic equilibrium calculation and model experiment, and have proposed the structure of fiber coating and its process conditions based on the obtained information.

Soundness evaluation and analysis of fiber coatingJAXA
We have evaluated the function of developed various coated fibers by mini composite and fiber punching method, and clarified the coating structure that demonstrates damage tolerance. As a coating, we have shown that CVD method is a more excellent fiber coating method than the chemical deposition one.

Development of ultrasonic inspection technologyThe University of Tokyo, Institute of Industrial Science, Department of Mechanical and Biofunctional Systems
We have confirmed that the nonlinear effect (generation of harmonics) of ultrasonic waves in lightweight ceramics composites increases after introducing of fatigue damage in the Feasibility Study conducted in FY2016. From now on, we will establish an indicator for quantitatively evaluating the change in nonlinear effect, and will construct a damage evaluation algorithm to make it easier to diagnose the degree of damage accumulation.

Development of ultrasonic inspection technologyTokushima University
Active thermography test on ceramics samples
We have confirmed that the rate of the temperature rise during heating and the temperature decrease after heating change, before and after introducing fatigue damage, resulting of applying pulse thermography method on lightweight ceramics composites in the Feasibility Study conducted in FY2016. We will examine and optimize the influence of inspection conditions such as heat input amount and heating pulse time in the infrared imaging method measurement, and will establish an indicator for quantitatively evaluating the degree of damage.

Theme Structure and Role
Theme 1: Development of Environmental Barrier Coatings (EBC) technology (C41)
We are developing multi coating technology consisting of multilayer film based on optimal structural design of EBC coating.


矢印
Theme 2: Development of fiber coating material (C42)
We are developing a process to coat Yb silicate on the surface of SiC fiber and producing a lightweight ceramic substrate using coated fiber.


Breakthrough in Heat Resistant Use temperature at 1400 °C
Advanced structural design for optimization of environmental shielding and thermomechanical properties

■ EBC with Multilayered Structure
It is crucial to reduce weight and improve heat resistance of hot section component in order to improve fuel efficiency of aircraft engines and to reduce CO2 emissions significantly. Although Ceramic Matrix Composites (CMC) is much lighter and superior in heat resistance than the current Ni based alloy, Environmental Barrier Coating (EBC), which protects the surface of composites and enables long-term use, is essential for applying it. It has a multi-phase laminated structure so as to have excellent environmental shielding and thermomechanical durability, and each layer has a distinctive function and overall it shows excellent performance.
The excellent environmental shielding is appeared by the dense film, but as a result, the constituent moves in the membrane and it becomes difficult to maintain laminated structure. In addition to structural design from perspective on previous material compatibility and thermomechanical properties, environmental shielding design based on quantitative and precise evaluation of mass transfer in EBC using high temperature gas permeation method etc. is extremely important in order to break down the current performance of EBC.
In this research, we propose an EBC structure that can be practically used for a long time under the combustion gas environment at 1400℃ by advanced structural design combining this environmental shielding design and thermomechanical structural design.

Understanding the limit of EBC use using the new fracture toughness evaluation method

■ Evaluate usage limits of EBC
It is necessary to understand accurately the limit of EBC use and to operate it in order to improve the reliability of the aircraft engine, but the method has not been established yet.
In this research, we measure the fracture toughness of EBC after durability test under simulated use environment as well as calculate the energy release rate in consideration of the changes in properties of component materials. And we will propose a method to predict critical condition of EBC delamination and fracture which occur from temporal changes in these values caused by damage or structural change in use, and will also design EBC optimal structure using this method.
Regarding the measurement of fracture toughness, we will aim to establish a new test method that can reproduce the destruction mode with simple and compact specimen applicable to actual coating, considering future certification and standardization.

New EBC Multi Coating Technology

■ Conceptual diagram of film forming equipment for double electron beam (with substrate rotation mechanism)
We are developing process technology to form multiphase laminate structure EBC by electron beam PVD technique etc. based on advanced structural design.
The electron beam PVD technique is the mainstream film forming method in the thermal barrier coating of Ni-based alloy components for current aircraft engines.
In this research, it is possible to form composites oxides with significantly different vapor pressures, gradient and compositing of film composition by adopting a system consisting of multiple electron guns and raw material ingots.
We are aiming to realize a new EBC that can be stably used for a long time even in a combustion gas environment at 1400°C by using this technique.

Development of Advanced Melt Infiltration
for Ceramic Matrix Composites (CMC)
(C46)

Concept and Approach
We are developing CMC as high-speed and low-cost manufacturing process in order to reduce the cost of non-oxide CMC.
We are aiming to develop Advanced Melt Infiltration for CMC (Advanced MI) that shortens the time of MI (melt impregnation) which can process for a shorter time than CVI (chemical vapor infiltration) method or PIP (polymer impregnation calcination) method. We reduce the overall cost by utilizing general purpose of grade fiber which can suppress fiber deterioration by shortening the time that SiC fibers are exposed to hot molten Si.


Unit Structure and Role

Research and Development
Establishment of Materials for CMC Blade manufacture / Design Request by Advanced MI Method

Development of Oxide Ceramic Matrix Composites
(C45)

Concept and Approach
We establish the toughness ceramic composites manufacturing technology which makes the conventional 3-D Woven Fabric Structure, Highly Heat Resistant SiC Fiber and CVI*, PIP** Repetitive Manufacture improve efficiently.

(ⅰ) Establishment of CMC Manufacture Process
(ⅱ) Improvement of heat resistance of oxide ceramics fiber
(ⅲ) Development of the coating with functions of thermal barrier and abradable etc.
(ⅳ) Establishment of Material / Structure Design and Evaluation Technology
* CVI：Chemical Vapor Infiltration
** PIP：Polymer Impregnation and Pyrolysis


TBC：Thermal Barrier Coating , CMC：Ceramic Matrix Composites
Unit Structure and Role

Research and Development
(ⅰ) Process Technology of Low-cost High Toughness Material
We have fabricated CMC using AI203 fiber with improved heat resistance and it has obtained high strength at three-point bending test and tensile test.


Example of CMC Strength Test Result
CMC Tensile Fracture Surface
(ⅱ) Manufacture Technology of Low-cost Heat Resistant Fiber
We have obtained oxide long fiber with improved heat resistance at 100 °C for the existing variety and fabricated a fabric using this textile.


Example of Fiber Tensile Strength Retention Rate Measurement
Alumina Long Fiber Fabric sample Prototype
(ⅲ) Environmental Barrier Coating (EBC) Technology
Optimization of topcoat materials with strong adhesion and abradable properties.


Cross Section of EBC
(ⅳ) Design for Material and Structure / Evaluation Technology
Improvement of fracture characteristics by applying thin CMC coating on ceramic substrate.


3-point flexural strength of CMC after Vickers indentation vs reciprocal number of space length between indents
We have designed shroud and extracted problems.


Structural Analysis Example of Shroud Design
List of R&D Projects and Units

Development of Ceramic Matrix Composites | Cross-ministerial Strategic Innovation Promotion Program（SIP） Structural Materials for Innovation | Japan Science and Technology Agency (JST)

More info and with pictures.
Before GE opened it's CMC oriented factory In USA t they used to source it from Japan for their F-35 and commercial aircraft engines

 

[no smoking]

Ceramic matrix composites in aircraft engines projected to double over five years, Stratview Research predicts

Ceramic matrix composite (CMC) use is up across the aerospace market, and among the fastest-growing trends in the global aviation industry. CMC material and component use in aircraft engines, specifically, is projected to double over the next five years, according to a new report from analysts...

www.sae.org

No it's not composite material cover it's totally a different thing. And still you made a assessment without even knowing what I'm talking about. This shows how biased you are.
Japanese are using this technology extensively in their new jet engine which is already churning out much more power than any Chinese engine.

Oh, yes, Japanese new jet engine which is still in the early development stage - ground testing of demonstrator.
And using this as an example of the superior Japanese jet engine technology shows how much you lack of the understanding of mechanical engineering. This is exactly what Japanese has been doing in military equipment: using latest and not mature technologies to produce not-so-advanced equipment.

Generally, the technologies development should be like this: inventing new material --> apply to old & mature engine design --> material mature --> apply to new & immature engine design. Using new material in new design is simply too risky and costly. That is why other countries are planning to extensively use CMC in the 6th generation engine (US just started to test her CMC blade on F414 demonstrator in 2015): they are learning and testing this new material.

The only reason that Japanese are extensively using CMC in their new engine is that their engine system design capability is so bad that they have to take the risk of immature material to reach the target.

Cant you understand a thing or two? Government of india and GTRE are considering to use kaveri engine in ghatak aircraft and use it's dry version because it's stable that way and recently kaveri is going to be used on that aircraft.

Firstly, they are still CONSIDERING and DRDO is not very good at delivering what they planned;
Secondly, using it in an UACV of which the major role is to release bomb/missile gave much less challenge to the performance of engine core.

Doesn't matter what you do you even have some inside information about the project do you have any source you are just a internet copy paste which don't even know anything but still make funny claims.

I am just a normal internet user without any internal information. And I bet you don't have any internal information either. So, both of us discuss it on public information. And you just blindly make claim without any support.

I bet if there was not a video of running kaveri engine then you would have claimed that it doesn't even existed.

You should be it when you provide such a video. DO YOU HAVE THAT VIEDO?

That's why indian side rejected the offer as long as i remembered? And is working to use the same core for UAV.

Well, India rejected the offer because DRDO didn't consider the offset amount by French is reasonable.

By the way this was reported after the initial testing and new french offer is particularly for amca which will require 110KN and not for tejas which is now going to stick with GE ENGINE.
K-11 will be build by foreign coloration.

What does it mean? French scientists think the engine is good to test while Indian scientists don't?
Or French simply wants to have a share of future Indian engine market and Kaveri is their best chance.

By the way, so far the kaveri engine hasn't gone through extensive high altitude test yet. So....

 

[johnq]

I am pretty sure that India will get to a successful dry version of Kaveri engine and other dry version engines on its own, from what I have been hearing. The French help is more for high thrust afterburning engines for high speed fighters.

Just producing/manufacturing large numbers of dry version Kaveri engines (and other dry version engines based on this technology) in India is sufficient to create a massive military industrial complex in India, because you can produce huge fleets of UAVs, UCAVs, subsonic bombers carrying cruise missiles, cruise missiles, refuelling tankers, AWACS and ELINT aircraft, large tank carrier aircraft, etc very cheaply (even more cheaply than China), and then sell them to Indian armed forces for less cost, and sell them to other countries for huge profits. This will make India into a defence powerhouse by cheaply manufacturing Indian military aircraft powered by Indian engines in very large numbers. It will create millions of jobs, as well as a massive military industrial complex that will benefit India by selling aircraft with Indian engines to both Indian armed services as well as other countries.

In spite of what Chinese propagandists say, India will get to the dry Kaveri engine on its own soon enough, and the dry Kaveri engine and other engines based on its technology will soon power huge fleets of Indian military aircraft.
The interesting thing about manufacturing engines and aircraft in India is that it will also make western systems cheaper. Western systems are already better than Chinese in terms of quality, but Chinese are currently producing large quantities more cheaply. By sourcing engines and aircraft from India even more cheaply, India and the west can create even larger fleets of defence aircraft more cheaply than China. This way China can also be beaten in a numbers game by producing huge fleets of drones, UAVs, UCAVs, subsonic bombers carrying cruise missiles, cruise missiles, refuelling tankers, AWACS and ELINT aircraft, large tank carrier aircraft, etc. India and other democracies will eventually need to beat China in a numbers game of all kinds of weapons, and sourcing these weapons (aircraft, ships, tanks, helicopters, etc) more cheaply from India (due to cheaper manufacturing in India) will help to achieve this. It will also create millions of jobs in India in a massive military industrial complex in alliance with US and other western countries.

 

[Defcon 1]

always wondered the same why no version with Kaveri ? May be it’s just a wait for it to mature further. Or it had critical deficiency that rendered it impossible.

Engine bypass ratio depends upon aircraft speed. Kaveri being a low bypass engine, is built for fighter aircraft. AWACS and transport aircraft fly at subsonic speeds and hence would need a high bypass turbofan

 

[no smoking]

In spite of what Chinese propagandists say, India will get to the dry Kaveri engine on its own soon enough, and the dry Kaveri engine and other engines based on its technology will soon power huge fleets of Indian military aircraft.

Honey, you have been saying this "WILL" for over 10 years.

The interesting thing about manufacturing engines and aircraft in India is that it will also make western systems cheaper. Western systems are already better than Chinese in terms of quality, but Chinese are currently producing large quantities more cheaply. ..... It will also create millions of jobs in India in a massive military industrial complex in alliance with US and other western countries.

WILL, WILL, WILL.

 

[johnq]

Honey, you have been saying this "WILL" for over 10 years.



WILL, WILL, WILL.

Aren't you the same guy who was denying Uyghur enslavement in support of the Chinese government in the China Economy thread?

 

[johnq]

In spite of what Chinese propagandists say, India will get to the dry Kaveri engine on its own soon enough, and the dry Kaveri engine and other engines based on its technology will soon power huge fleets of Indian military aircraft.

The interesting thing about manufacturing engines and aircraft in India is that it will also make western systems cheaper. Western systems are already better than Chinese in terms of quality, but Chinese are currently producing large quantities more cheaply. By sourcing engines and aircraft from India even more cheaply, India and the west can create even larger fleets of defence aircraft more cheaply than China. This way China can also be beaten in a numbers game by producing huge fleets of drones, UAVs, UCAVs, subsonic bombers carrying cruise missiles, cruise missiles, refuelling tankers, AWACS and ELINT aircraft, large tank carrier aircraft, etc. India and other democracies will eventually need to beat China in a numbers game of all kinds of weapons, and sourcing these weapons (aircraft, ships, tanks, helicopters, etc) more cheaply from India (due to cheaper manufacturing in India) will help to achieve this. It will also create millions of jobs in India in a massive military industrial complex in alliance with US and other western countries.

It's a question of economics and numbers; how to make larger numbers of weapons more economically than China, to beat China in a numbers game (since the quality is already in west's favor). This is why the west will ultimately have to cooperate with India to produce not just engines, but all weapons, because manufacturing them in India is even cheaper than in China. Plus India respects IP laws, unlike China.
Besides, the Kaveri engine has already solved the screech problem so that a dry version of Kaveri engine and other non-afterburning engines based on similar engine manufacturing technologies can still be used to power huge fleets of subsonic aircraft like drones, UAVs, UCAVs, subsonic bombers carrying cruise missiles, cruise missiles, refuelling tankers, AWACS and ELINT aircraft, large tank carrier aircraft, etc. I believe Ghatak stealth UCAV will also use non-afterburning Kaveri engine.

 

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

Please never ever quote Chinese capabilities. Most of it is a myth. They will never be able to develop aircraft engines of any kind for decades. Heavy engineering requires intense collaboration and exchange of ideas. The CCP is trying to do it all by itself, virtually assuring zero chance of success. It is much like their 5G, an inferior product that no one wants to use.

 

[no smoking]

Please never ever quote Chinese capabilities. Most of it is a myth. They will never be able to develop aircraft engines of any kind for decades. Heavy engineering requires intense collaboration and exchange of ideas. The CCP is trying to do it all by itself, virtually assuring zero chance of success.

Over 200 Chinese version Su-27 are flying with WS-10 every day. Now they are being fitted into J-10, J-20. But, don't worry, they are not true. It is just a delusion of the whole world.

That is the spirit you will need.

It is much like their 5G, an inferior product that no one wants to use.

Oh, yes, Americans are spending massive political resources to persuade and threaten her allies not to use this inferior product that no one wants to use.

 

[johnq]

Over 200 Chinese version Su-27 are flying with WS-10 every day. Now they are being fitted into J-10, J-20. But, don't worry, they are not true. It is just a delusion of the whole world.

That is the spirit you will need.



Oh, yes, Americans are spending massive political resources to persuade and threaten her allies not to use this inferior product that no one wants to use.

Yes I am sure you went and checked yourself if operational aircraft are actually flying with crappy Chinese engines that break down after 80 hours, or if they are just being filmed for propaganda purposes, while actual operational aircraft are flying with Russian engines. Good brainwashed chinese propagandist fanboys believe whatever their criminal Chinese Communist Party government tells them, isn't it, including what you were saying about there being no enslavement of Uyghurs in the China economy thread despite evidence to the contrary. That is the spirit you need.

Oh yes, Chinese Communist Party brainwashed propagandists are pushing their evil government's narratives around parts of the internet banned in China because their Chinese crappy products (engines and 5g included) work really well.