Kaveri Engine

[Spitfire9]

I was thinking. If a fast jet needs at least 2 engine replacements during its service life and

83 Mk1A are ordered
50 TEDBF are ordered
200 MWF are ordered

then over 750 replacement engines in the 90kN-100kN thrust range will be needed.

Would it not be a good idea to pay $1 billion+ to collaborate with a major jet designer/developer/manufacturer to secure an engine (a) many of whose components can be made in India (b) which can be assembled in India? Call it Kaveri or whatever. What does it matter if 70% or 80% or 90% of the design/design and development is foreign in origin? Fast jets need jet engines and so far 100% of the engines in IAF fast jets are of foreign design and development. Any useful input GTRE could make would be a bonus.

Assuming that a 90kN-100kN engine costs $5 million plus that means spending around $4 billion for future replacement engines. I guess that they could be made in India for quite a lot less.

Having the ability to produce working engines in India at little more cost than buying them in would be a step forward to me.

 

[no smoking]

Problems were discovered even before so why to test further.

Unfortunately, for jet engine, most of problems will be discovered during the test stage.
You have to set up the whole testing schedule based on different speed, different environments, different working status. All these tests cost time. It is a must for everyone, not just India.

 

[no smoking]

Anyone know why we are not interested in collaboration with japan , xf 9 is better than most engines

1. The first ground test of F-119 was done in Apr 1986, the first flying test on F-22 was Sep 1997, it took 11 years. XF9 had its ground test in 2018. Even if we assume that Japanese is as good as American on Jet engine. The Japanese will get first F9 on their plane in 2029, what year delivering to India? Who knows;

2. In the Jet engine era, the largest engine that Japan has ever developed was F7-10 (64kn) while XF-9 is over 150kn. Such a great leap on technologies means a great tech risk potentially. Does India want to take that risk?

3. Japanese has been infamous on tech sharing. The tech benefit for India in this deal will be much less than working with French or Russian. Even Americans are better than them.

 

[wraith96]

Using a single engine jet as an FTB is a brilliant idea. When the engine being tested stops working in mid-air, the pilot can simply eject, hop on a new FTB and fly away. Saves time.

That's the most frustrating thing regarding Kaveri program, we still don't have a flying test bed.

 

[Spitfire9]

That's the most frustrating thing regarding Kaveri program, we still don't have a flying test bed.

Why?

 

[Lonewolf]

Why?

Everytime we have to rush to russia for testing , there were plans for a sukhoi based testbed , but i think that would be used in 110 kn engine only

 

[samsaptaka]

Why?

Because babus in DRDO and DMRL etc... Don't have common sense, thats why ? Simply transfer all kaveri related tech to pvt sectors, force some IIT and other willing youth engineers to work on it, pay them well and see magic happen (of course not instantly but another 10yrs). But we will never get out of this quota chap reservation psu mindset , so I am just dreaming..

 

[no smoking]

Because babus in DRDO and DMRL etc... Don't have common sense, thats why ? Simply transfer all kaveri related tech to pvt sectors, force some IIT and other willing youth engineers to work on it, pay them well and see magic happen (of course not instantly but another 10yrs). But we will never get out of this quota chap reservation psu mindset , so I am just dreaming..

Not that simple. For the jet engine industry, no private company would make a try unless they have huge financial support from public funds.

 

[no smoking]

That's the most frustrating thing regarding Kaveri program, we still don't have a flying test bed.

No at all.
First of all, nobody is going to buy a flying test bed for a single engine program.
Furthermore, you need to know what functions and features you will need on a flying test bed before buying or building a flying test bed. For that purpose, you need to go through a whole completed engine testing procedure first.

 

[Blank]

Can the improved Kaveri now power the LCA? Even barely make it fly?

 

[Gerlat]

Can the improved Kaveri now power the LCA? Even barely make it fly?

According to ADA, LCA going to use ge engine in its entire life. Please consider kaveri weight aka t/w ratio, air supply also. Now main focus is on f414 catagory engine with more t/w ratio which meets requirements for amca, tedbf, LCA mk2.

 

[kunal1123]

DRDO- Rolls Royce engine deal in next two years, talks now on feasibility studies – Indian Defence Research Wing

Clean Slate Design


Rolls Royce and DRDO will be co-developing a new engine that will be a clean slate design and not based on any existing engine so that Intellectual property rights issues don’t emerge. the engine will use some of the technologies already developed for the Kaveri engine program like its new fan section and FADEC system, but it will have a new core section.


Growth Potential


The proposed core section of the engine will have growth potential of 20% in increased thrust generation with minor changes in the core section that is done to make it future-proof. DRDO also plans to develop a variant of the engine that be used for single-engine fighter jets in the future. DRDO has plans to swap F414 engines in Tejas Mk2 with locally made engines from 2040 onwards when their due for new engines.


R&D and Testing in India


The engine will be developed in India with active assistance from a team of engineers from Rolls Royce and in the UK facility but the majority of the testing will be done at the upcoming engine complex that DRDO is developing. The engine will be tested completely in India for which India might be also procuring a flying Test-Bed platform that could be a commercial airline jet for flight test purposes. One of the Prototypes of AMCA will be paired with one existing F414 engine to become Testbed aircraft for the new engine in later stages. Plans are to have an Flying Prototype engine by 2029 and conclude all flying tests in next three years.

 

[FalconSlayers]

Another reason why we should go with Safran for an M88 Dervative.

 

[WarriorIndian]

Can the improved Kaveri now power the LCA? Even barely make it fly?

Obviously it can. But the Tejas design deserves more power.

 

[Spitfire9]

DRDO- Rolls Royce engine deal in next two years, talks now on feasibility studies – Indian Defence Research Wing

Clean Slate Design


Rolls Royce and DRDO will be co-developing a new engine that will be a clean slate design and not based on any existing engine so that Intellectual property rights issues don’t emerge. the engine will use some of the technologies already developed for the Kaveri engine program like its new fan section and FADEC system, but it will have a new core section.


Growth Potential


The proposed core section of the engine will have growth potential of 20% in increased thrust generation with minor changes in the core section that is done to make it future-proof. DRDO also plans to develop a variant of the engine that be used for single-engine fighter jets in the future. DRDO has plans to swap F414 engines in Tejas Mk2 with locally made engines from 2040 onwards when their due for new engines.


R&D and Testing in India


The engine will be developed in India with active assistance from a team of engineers from Rolls Royce and in the UK facility but the majority of the testing will be done at the upcoming engine complex that DRDO is developing. The engine will be tested completely in India for which India might be also procuring a flying Test-Bed platform that could be a commercial airline jet for flight test purposes. One of the Prototypes of AMCA will be paired with one existing F414 engine to become Testbed aircraft for the new engine in later stages. Plans are to have an Flying Prototype engine by 2029 and conclude all flying tests in next three years.

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

Will the DRDO-Rolce Roys engine be a adaptive variable cycle engine? RR has some experience in that working with GE, and Tempest is most likely going to feature that engine and it will also be used for engine upgarde for F-35. .

 

[Spitfire9]

One of the good things to be taken from the IDRN story is that the amount of funding needed to develop a 110kN engine is now being taken seriously.

If this goes ahead, the one thing that obviously needs to be avoided is not having the engine ready and tested by the time AMCA Mk2 needs it. GOI will need to give a go ahead and release funds quickly, not in 3/4 years.

 

[fire starter]

Will the DRDO-Rolce Roys engine be a adaptive variable cycle engine? RR has some experience in that working with GE, and Tempest is most likely going to feature that engine and it will also be used for engine upgarde for F-35. .

Kaveri is already a variable cycle upto some extent.

 

[Spitfire9]

I think that this may turn out to be the most advantageous aspect of a new RR-led engine design (rather than SAFRAN). Note that 7 or so years have already gone into its development.

In an aim to be more electric, more intelligent and to harness more power, Rolls-Royce recognised that any future fighter aircraft will have unprecedented levels of electrical power demand and thermal load; all needing to be managed within the context of a stealthy aircraft.

Before the launch of the Tempest programme, Rolls-Royce had already started to address the demands of the future. Back in 2014, the company took on the challenge of designing an electrical starter generator that was fully embedded in the core of a gas turbine engine, now known as the Embedded Electrical Starter Generator or E2SG demonstrator programme.

Rolls-Royce develops world-first electrical technology for next-generation Tempest programme

Rolls-Royce develops world-first electrical technology for next-generation Tempest programme

www.rolls-royce.com

 

[mandestiny]

Bhai DRDO ek workable jet engine bana le. Baki phir bante rahenge.