Kaveri Engine

[pmaitra]

Listen man i spent a whole day discussing with them and there is nothing in what they spoke that suggests that it is 65kN. Ajay Sukla spoke with Rao in 2009 and wrote the article in 2010, when i shot a mail to Ajay and Shiv Aroor he later reported a story that claimed its 75kN. Shiv Aroor reports it as 75kN wet thrust. You want to win for the sake of you being right all the time, then go ahead. I can come up with an article that shows elephants can jump. So good luck.

• Please share a link so all to see.
• When did you take that video of yours?

 

[pmaitra]

Kaveri Engine Thrust:

• dry thrust - Targetted 52 kN, achieved 49 kN.
• afterburner thrust - Targetted 81 kN, achieved 75 kN.

Is there anybody out there who can confirm this and support this with links?

 

[rudresh]

@Rudresh,

I am trying to untangle this jumble of numbers. Let me make a hypothesis and please correct me if I am wrong. References will be greatly appreciated.

Kaveri Engine Thrust:

• dry thrust - Targetted 52 kN, achieved 49 kN.
• afterburner thrust - Targetted 81 kN, achieved 75 kN.

Is this correct according to you?

yes it is corrrect .

 

[rudresh]

Is there anybody out there who can confirm this and support this with links?

THE HINDU
Kaveri engine to power fifth generation fighter aircraft
January 26, 2011


The Il-70 aircraft at Moscow powered by the Kaveri engine developed by India. A file Photo: DRDO.
The Hindu The Il-70 aircraft at Moscow powered by the Kaveri engine developed by India. A file Photo: DRDO.

Under development for over two decades, the indigenous fighter jet engine 'Kaveri' will be used for powering the home-grown fifth generation Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA).

Being developed by DRDO's Gas Turbine research Establishment (GTRE), the Kaveri was initially being developed for the LCA Tejas programme but now it will be used on the AMCA, which is expected to be ready by 2016-17, senior officials told PTI here.

The AMCA is a twin-engine indigenous fighter aircraft programme for which initial sanctions have already been accorded by the Defence Ministry, they added.

The indigenous fighter aircraft engine programme was first started in 1986 and has suffered delays and cost over-runs. It was also marred by the technology denial regimes in the 90s.

After not being able to get the desired thrust for powering fighter aircraft, the DRDO entered into a Joint Venture with the French engine manufacturers Snecma to further enhance its capabilities.
In recent times, the engine has been able to produce thrust of 70-75 Kilo Newton but what the IAF and other stake-holders desire is power between 90—95 KN.

"I think with the JV with Snecma in place now, we would be able to achieve these parameters in near future," they said.

On using the Kaveri for the LCA, they said the engine would be fitted on the first 40 LCAs to be supplied to the IAF when they come for upgrades to the DRDO in the latter half of the decade.

Due to the absence of an indigenous engine, GE engines from the United States were procured to power the LCAs and recently, another tender was awarded to the American company for supplying 99 engines for the advanced version of the Tejas.

On the present status of the programme, officials said the maiden flight test of the Kaveri was completed successfully during the Flying Test Bed (FTB) trials at the Gromov Flight Research Institute in Moscow November last year.

During the coming months, 50-60 test flights will be carried out to mature the engine in terms of reliability, safety and airworthiness.

These trials would pave the way for further flight trials of Kaveri engine with a fighter aircraft, they added.

 

[Godless-Kafir]

• Please share a link so all to see.
• When did you take that video of yours?

Its open knowledge, please don't enter discussions if your not sure and if your not sure then try to learn and not tell people what they should know. Entering discussions merely to feed your ego and be right all the time is not the right attitude to bring in and is not constructive for learning or discussing.

 

[pmaitra]

THE HINDU
Kaveri engine to power fifth generation fighter aircraft
January 26, 2011


The Il-70 aircraft at Moscow powered by the Kaveri engine developed by India. A file Photo: DRDO.
The Hindu The Il-70 aircraft at Moscow powered by the Kaveri engine developed by India. A file Photo: DRDO.

Under development for over two decades, the indigenous fighter jet engine 'Kaveri' will be used for powering the home-grown fifth generation Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA).

Being developed by DRDO's Gas Turbine research Establishment (GTRE), the Kaveri was initially being developed for the LCA Tejas programme but now it will be used on the AMCA, which is expected to be ready by 2016-17, senior officials told PTI here.

The AMCA is a twin-engine indigenous fighter aircraft programme for which initial sanctions have already been accorded by the Defence Ministry, they added.

The indigenous fighter aircraft engine programme was first started in 1986 and has suffered delays and cost over-runs. It was also marred by the technology denial regimes in the 90s.

After not being able to get the desired thrust for powering fighter aircraft, the DRDO entered into a Joint Venture with the French engine manufacturers Snecma to further enhance its capabilities.
In recent times, the engine has been able to produce thrust of 70-75 Kilo Newton but what the IAF and other stake-holders desire is power between 90—95 KN.

"I think with the JV with Snecma in place now, we would be able to achieve these parameters in near future," they said.

On using the Kaveri for the LCA, they said the engine would be fitted on the first 40 LCAs to be supplied to the IAF when they come for upgrades to the DRDO in the latter half of the decade.

Due to the absence of an indigenous engine, GE engines from the United States were procured to power the LCAs and recently, another tender was awarded to the American company for supplying 99 engines for the advanced version of the Tejas.

On the present status of the programme, officials said the maiden flight test of the Kaveri was completed successfully during the Flying Test Bed (FTB) trials at the Gromov Flight Research Institute in Moscow November last year.

During the coming months, 50-60 test flights will be carried out to mature the engine in terms of reliability, safety and airworthiness.

These trials would pave the way for further flight trials of Kaveri engine with a fighter aircraft, they added.

Apparently you jumped in the middle of the thread. I have already posted this news article:

Ok guys, we are not pouring a peg of Curaçao that we need to be talking about generosity.

My source says Kaveri achieved 75 kN of thrust (70-75 to be precise). Could be wrong. Perhaps you guys can provide some links to support your respective versions of the story?

@Armand2REP, you were correct in stating 70 kN, so was I in stating 75 kN. My source says 70-75 kN. Choosing the lower limit is not exactly being generous.

@Vladimir79, links please.

Reference:
The Hindu : Sci-Tech / Technology : Kaveri engine to power fifth generation fighter aircraft

Could be true. Is there any other source or is this the only one?

yes it is corrrect .

Do you have anything to support this or did you just hear it from someone?

 

[pmaitra]

Its open knowledge, please don't enter discussions if your not sure and if your not sure then try to learn and not tell people what they should know. Entering discussions merely to feed your ego and be right all the time is not the right attitude to bring in and is not constructive for learning or discussing.

Instead of lecturing me on how to post why don't you provide some support for all the claims that you have made so far? If you cannot, then you are speculating.

 

[pmaitra]

Ok guys, enough of this speculation and guess-work. Let's get it from the horse's mouth.

Check the DRDO links:
Kaveri Engine
DRDO::Major Products and Technologies

The design specifications, i.e., the target thrusts are whatever they are as per the above links. There is no official word (AFAIK) on the real achieved thrusts from DRDO. If there is any and I missed it, please let me know.

Kaveri Engine Thrust:

• dry thrust - Targetted 52 kN (see ref. above), achieved 49 kN (unconfirmed or speculative).
• afterburner thrust - Targetted 81 kN (see ref. above), achieved 75 kN (unconfirmed or speculative).

 

[Godless-Kafir]

Instead of lecturing me on how to post why don't you provide some support for all the claims that you have made so far? If you cannot, then you are speculating.

So there was no merit in discussing with the scientists and getting the news for DFI discussion? Only you and your articles have some credit. Ok, if you say so.

 

[pmaitra]

So there was no merit in discussing with the scientists and getting the news for DFI discussion? Only you and your articles have some credit. Ok, if you say so.

Again, you are putting words in my mouth. I did not say there is no merit in what you discussed with scientists. Maybe you are right, maybe wrong. All I have been saying, and if you know how to read properly, is that you have not provided any support for whatever you said.

 

[p2prada]

The Kaveri can produce 75Kn thrust, can do even 80KN and go even higher. But that is not sustainable economically and the materials may not survive the heat and stress beyond a certain time which makes it useless.

This is like how the Mig-25 can achieve Mach 3.2 but at the cost of the engines needing to be replaced after every sortie.

Currently the Kaveri can produce 65kN at required levels of air flow and temperature. Any higher will reduce the life of the engines.

 

[pmaitra]

The Kaveri can produce 75Kn thrust, can do even 80KN and go even higher. But that is not sustainable economically and the materials may not survive the heat and stress beyond a certain time which makes it useless.

This is like how the Mig-25 can achieve Mach 3.2 but at the cost of the engines needing to be replaced after every sortie.

Currently the Kaveri can produce 65kN at required levels of air flow and temperature. Any higher will reduce the life of the engines.

Thanks for the clarification.

Given the consequences of flying this engine at 70-75 kN of thrust, I don't think there is anything to celebrate.

Sustainable thrust is 65 kN and India needs help in reaching the target or design parameters. We have a long way to go to be able to celebrate. Now isn't the right time.

 

[Rahul Singh]

The Cabinet Committee on Security on Wednesday will consider a revised proposal for purchase of C-17s which, for the first time, outlines the offsets including a High Altitude Engine Test Facility and Trisonic Wind Tunnel Facility valued at $510 million, for the Defence Research & Development Organisation.

I always wondered how long should GTRE wait to have these facilities when K-9 is making such progresses and ambitious yet promising future plans are in pipeline? Nevertheless it's great to see it coming. Wonder if GTRE is also planning to ask IAF to spare one IL-76 for converting it into a flying test bed.

 

[SuperCommandoDhruv]

^^ T/W ratio information is useful if it pertains to the aircraft and not the engine alone. The engine does not fly by itself.

• Snecma M88 - thrust 50 kN (75 kN with afterburner)
• Kaveri - thrust 75 kN (with or without afterburner? Information not available.)
• General Electric F404 - thrust 79 kN (with afterburner)
• General Electric F414 EPE - thrust 120 kN (with or without afterburner? Information not available.)
• IAF needs - thrust 95 kN

That's cool.

GTRE has proven its design. India has made it. :thumb:

 

[nitesh]

Overall, we can say that GTRE is able to come up with a working engine. Now they need to improve over it, and with feverish pace, as this is the cutting edge of the technology. With new test facilities coming up, the time for testing will reduce, which in turn will fasten the pace of development

 

[adyonfire4]

Thank God The Moderators Have Removed The Discussion Part that was having Filthy Language.Guys I Just get the Feeling that we are here just for a Meaning Full Discussion and Not Pulling Legs of each other Please Only Discuss Defense and not anything Else.
About the Kaveri- The basic design has been proven and we need some Super alloys,high-grade metallurgy to take the project further.Regards!!

 

[Godless-Kafir]

^^ T/W ratio information is useful if it pertains to the aircraft and not the engine alone. The engine does not fly by itself.

• Snecma M88 - thrust 50 kN (75 kN with afterburner)
• Kaveri - thrust 75 kN (with or without afterburner? Information not available.)
• General Electric F404 - thrust 79 kN (with afterburner)
• General Electric F414 EPE - thrust 120 kN (with or without afterburner? Information not available.)
• IAF needs - thrust 95 kN

How can any engine in that class produce 75kN without after burner? You hardly even know the difference between reheat thrust and dry heat thrust. Yet you indulge in serious debate, there are many senior members here who have been following the engine for many years now. I have been following its development for almost 13yeas now, people like you wont last 10 minutes in a board like BR which looks down on unsubstantiated criticism.

Both you and SuperCommandoDhruv are wrong, if he thinks that the Kaveri is ready and as achieved its goal then he too is completely wrong. The engine produces thrust at the cost of fuel. Its not economical at this point, they are working on metallurgy to cut weight and improve thrust.

Dont respond if your only going to negate my statements and bring nothing of value. Thats is called trolling. I hope you understand the difference between substantiated discussion and unsubstantiated criticism.

 

[pmaitra]

^^

GK, there is a reason why the other person is visiting the same place that you have been to. Hence, we both have the option of not responding to each other.

I knew what is afterburner all throughout, but I was not sure which thrust rating corresponded to which mode, dry or afterburner thrust. In your video, you mentioned 75 and immediately after the other person replied 52, and that added to the confusion and prompted me to think you didn't know what you were talking about. I put up a separate post seeking clarification of everything from others and p2prada has kindly given the best response that all of us have insofar failed.

I think that should put an end to this discussion that is not helping the topic in any way.

 

[Godless-Kafir]

^^

GK, there is a reason why the other person is visiting the same place that you have been to. Hence, we both have the option of not responding to each other.

I knew what is afterburner all throughout, but I was not sure which thrust rating corresponded to which mode, dry or afterburner thrust. In your video, you mentioned 75 and immediately after the other person replied 52, and that added to the confusion and prompted me to think you didn't know what you were talking about. I put up a separate post seeking clarification of everything from others and p2prada has kindly given the best response that all of us have insofar failed.

I think that should put an end to this discussion that is not helping the topic in any way.

You had the option of not responding without learning, yet you entered an discussion knowing next to nothing and insulting people with your attitude. Accusing me of not knowing anything in my video was wrong and totally uncalled for. Your arrogance betrays conscious speech.

That is a lame excuse, in my video i repeatedly asked Dry and Wet thrust and you got confuse? Only a person who does not know the difference would have gotten confused at such a large margin of thrust. Why wont you accept your mistake?

Because of your trolling some member went over board with his reaction and i dont blame him at for getting frustrated with you and your childish understanding.

 

[pmaitra]

^^ GK, quit trolling and send me PM instead. On a related note, you are not qualified enough to dispense certificates of knowledge, especially after you have been called out by other people.